Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[smkovalinksy]

I would have liked to see Hellman keep the speculating and name calling to a minimum. He should have made them discuss the real issues in the case. I suppose the defense can not object in court during this phase. To me it is disgraceful.

I agree. The whole "witch with a double soul " and "sex-loving she-devil" business should not be allowed in open court. Disgraceful and lurid.

 

[snook1]

Thta's what Nadeau said three days ago:

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno talking now about schedule. She wants to deliver Sollecito arguments Tuesday. #amandaknox
23 Sep


BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Civil party gets all of Monday for closing arguments, Sollecito gets all of Tuesday. #amandaknox
23 Sep

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno says close this thing Friday, Saturday and Monday #amandaknox
23 Sep

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Calendar discussed but nothing written in stone quite yet.
23 Sep

 

[Kaosium]

Is he saying that "felpa" was not left behind and was taken as evidence in Nov. 1? Firstly, how could he be involved so early in the investigation, Kerchers could not have had time to hire him. Secondly, how could the investigators allow him to enter "secured" crime scene during evidence collection?

Very good question! I wonder what he was trying to do there, he left himself wide open on a number of issues....

 

[Dougm]

I'm honestly not looking for the last word, but simply want to clarify as well.

Judge Hellmann is presiding over this court, not Massei or Mignini. I suspect that if Massei did not recognize it, Hellmann does recognize that Mignini is up on corruption charges. If Hellmann had been supportive of Mignini's would-be honor, he would have booted Moore out of court, then and there. Apparently, he did not. And so, she was not roundly criticized, at least by anyone other than Meisterburger Mignini, himself.

NP. I will just say (also not looking for last word -- we are mostly in agreement here), that if someone is to comment in court on Mignini, it should be one of Amanda's attorneys. And not with name calling, that just stoops to his level.

 

[Dougm]

I agree. The whole "witch with a double soul " and "sex-loving she-devil" business should not be allowed in open court. Disgraceful and lurid.

This seems to be the norm over there. And it seems easier to get in when they allow the civil parties to participate in the same courtroom with the criminal charges.

In the US, this type of emotional stuff usually comes from defense attorneys who are defending guilty people, who have no other argument.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Title: The Last Face... RWVBWL asked me to post this photograph and his synopsis in words below for him.

"I want to post this photograph because this was the last face that Meredith Kercher saw, if Rudy Guede is to be believed, when she lay dying.

And this face, he who sticks his tongue out at the camera, did not run outside screaming for help, he did not try and place any phone calls for help, instead, he cleaned himself up and then went out dancing that night.

Everyone needs to be reminded of this scumbag who, after leaving his DNA inside her, did not call out for help and therefore let Meredith Kercher die. Maybe, just maybe a call for help would have helped Meredith live..."

RW

 

[RandyN]

On some level it *is* about us, Dougm. Any civilized person should be profoundly offended by what this grotesque dog and pony show has explained to us about the true state of Italy's culture.

I have no problem with Michelle Moore's comments. I applaud them. This preposterous bastard has been coddled enough, and feared enough; he deserves to hear what civilized persons think of him.

And surely if Hellmann would like to censor Moore or toss her out of the court room for what she said, that is his prerogative. Apparently he has not done so.

If he tosses her out then hed have to throw out the whole prosecutors table...besides He is evil. About time he heard it...if its even true that she said it. This sounds like another fairy tale from Sloppy Nadeau.

 

[Teddy2007]

Even though many of us are angry and startled at the nature of the prosecution's arguments, they have done a very poor job, especially today. It's a pity the defence lawyers only have 1 day each, they'd need a week to demonstrate just how absurd the prosecution's arguments are. Still, the prosecution should have concentrated on what they felt was their best evidence, because a judge like Hellmann is not going to be impressed by this speculative character assassination, IMO. The fact that they resorted to character assassination demonstrates that they weren't confident with the strength of their evidence. I feel a lot better about this case than a few days ago.

 

[snook1]

I feel a lot better about this case than a few days ago.

Same here.

 

[Dougm]

Even though many of us are angry and startled at the nature of the prosecution's arguments, they have done a very poor job, especially today. It's a pity the defence lawyers only have 1 day each, they'd need a week to demonstrate just how absurd the prosecution's arguments are. Still, the prosecution should have concentrated on what they felt was their best evidence, because a judge like Hellmann is not going to be impressed by this speculative character assassination, IMO. The fact that they resorted to character assassination demonstrates that they weren't confident with the strength of their evidence. I feel a lot better about this case than a few days ago.

I do too, actually. I know they want to say the media does not matter, but I expect that headlines around the world (Italy included) will say, Attorney calls Knox a "witch", and explain it is because she drank beer and had a vibrator in a bag. If they had focused on evidence, even flimsy evidence, people might come away with the impression there is a case. This was lame.

 

[Dougm]

If he tosses her out then hed have to throw out the whole prosecutors table...besides He is evil. About time he heard it...if its even true that she said it. This sounds like another fairy tale from Sloppy Nadeau.

You are probably right, Randy. Or it happened, but only quietly. Doubtful it is much of a big deal.

 

[Kaosium]

NP. I will just say (also not looking for last word -- we are mostly in agreement here), that if someone is to comment in court on Mignini, it should be one of Amanda's attorneys. And not with name calling, that just stoops to his level.

This is one of those things I wouldn't have done myself--and understand your reaction--but at the same time I'm kinda glad someone else said it. The prosecution and their flunkies spent two whole days droning on and on about Amanda's deficiencies according to reports, while Michelle Moore seemed to succinctly sum up Mignini in two little words.

However, when did Mignini learn English or where did Michelle Moore learn Italian? Maybe she just practiced those words special for him!

 

[Katody Matrass]

I think it's a bit premature to jump on Mrs Moore just because Barbie twitted something. Was that situation reported and confirmed by anyone more credible? We don't know what really happened. E. g. it's not unthinkable that was actually Latza who said to Mignini during lunch - see, this is Moore's wife, she says you're evil.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Aren't the TV people and Sollecito family indicted for showing the gruesome Meredith's body images to the public? Maresca just did the same.

 

[js202]

This is one of those things I wouldn't have done myself--and understand your reaction--but at the same time I'm kinda glad someone else said it. The prosecution and their flunkies spent two whole days droning on and on about Amanda's deficiencies according to reports, while Michelle Moore seemed to succinctly sum up Mignini in two little words.

However, when did Mignini learn English or where did Michelle Moore learn Italian? Maybe she just practiced those words special for him!

I suspect Burgermeister Mignini speaks a word or three of English. Plus he is clearly obsessed with the concept of evil, whilst being blind to his own evil acts. He knows that word in every language.

 

[js202]

I think it's a bit premature to jump on Mrs Moore just because Barbie twitted something. Was that situation reported and confirmed by anyone more credible? We don't know what really happened. E. g. it's not unthinkable that was actually Latza who said to Mignini during lunch - see, this is Moore's wife, she says you're evil.

I'd sooner suspect that maybe it was hearsay that Nadeau reported. Can't imagine that she would be so unethical to manufacture the scenario.

Plus, I can imagine Michelle Moore saying it. You go, Michelle.

 

[misteratunta]

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=21&image_id=3408

Anybody know the veracity or otherwise of the measurements on this table? SomeAlibi is throwing them around on twitter like they are the meaning of life.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I'd sooner suspect that maybe it was hearsay that Nadeau reported. Can't imagine that she would be so unethical to manufacture the scenario.

Plus, I can imagine Michelle Moore saying it. You go, Michelle.

Then it would be in Amanda's interest if her parents ask Michelle to restrain herself or stay out of court at least until the verdict.

 

[Grinder]

I'm surprised that Lumumba's attorney didn't stage an entrance with smoke and lights with this classic northwest hit playing on the PA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMtk5Lor_0E

Say there's a girl
Who's new in town
Well, you better watch out now
Or she´ll put you down
'cause she's an evil chick
Say she's the witch.

She got a long black hair
And a big black car
I know what you're thinking
But you won't get far
She gonna make you itch
'cause she's the witch.


Well, she walks around late at night
Among startled people sleepin' tight
If you hear her knocking on your door
You better sneakin´away

Had they known of this NW history I'm sure they would have quoted from it.

 

[RandyN]

Even though many of us are angry and startled at the nature of the prosecution's arguments, they have done a very poor job, especially today. It's a pity the defence lawyers only have 1 day each, they'd need a week to demonstrate just how absurd the prosecution's arguments are. Still, the prosecution should have concentrated on what they felt was their best evidence, because a judge like Hellmann is not going to be impressed by this speculative character assassination, IMO. The fact that they resorted to character assassination demonstrates that they weren't confident with the strength of their evidence. I feel a lot better about this case than a few days ago.

I disagree that they need a week to demonstrate how absurd the prosecutors arguments are.

1. First your honor Id like to say that all the personal attacks on my clients reputation are untrue...and no she is not a witch and he is not a warlock.

2. I would ask the court for immediate dismissal because the prosecution failed to present any facts that link my clients to this crime. No motive (by their own admission), no proof, strong alibi (at least as good as Filomenas), no prints, no DNA (per court appointed experts), no murder weapon...in short nothing but wrong guesses by the prosecution. This court can not ignore the Supreme Court ruling on the illegally obtained statements of Nov 5th , 6th. Also there is computer data to substantiate the alibi,

3. I would ask for dismissal of charges against Amanda related to Patrick Lumumba as there was no way for her to know if PL was or perhaps is still involved in any way. According to the prosecution TOD PL may indeed have been an accomplice and that Amanda had every reason to believe this since the police told her this. In light of the police failure to record this interrogation when they recorded and tapped every other conversation of hers I would ask that this case be tossed out.

What else is there? Rudy Guede broke into the cottage between the hours of 5 PM and 8:55PM where he had a drink of OJ, used the bathroom, and then was interrupted in his crime by the return of Meredith, whereupon he made the decision to rape and then brutally kill her. Every fact in this case points to that conclusion. There is DNA, fingerprints and shoe prints belonging to RG and made with the victims blood. There is RG own admission to being in the cottage and in both the bathrooms and in the murder room where his is the only evidence found that cannot be easily explained as perhaps a residents evidence might be found. That no evidence of either AK or RS was found in the murder room is compelling evidence that they were never there. No one could possibly clean up DNA traces yet the prosecution would like you to believe this is the case. This case is about a rush to judgment and then a stubborn effort and failure to admit that they were wrong where they means the police and the prosecutor.

I think the defenses will have enough time with a day each to cover the important issues of this case. Just hit the bullet points…no need to overwhelm the jury. Im pretty certain the judges already know how they will vote and discuss the case with the lay judges. The facts fit the appeal documents of RS and AK. No facts fit the prosecutions case….not even the witch part.

I think the witch part today shows the level these people have been operating at. Backwards by what 300 , 400 years or so.