Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[drewid]

nvm - later

 

[Multivac]

From everyone's favorite bogus space yarn, CARRYING THE FIRE;


"Of course the ground can take its measurements as well, but it really has no way of judging where the LM came down, except by comparing Neil and Buzz's description of their surrounding terrain (lurain?) with the rather crude maps which Houston has."

Patrick1000: This book is about 490 pages, so can you please post page numbers to make it easier to read the ections that you are quoting. I have asked you for page numbers on two previous occasions as i'm currently reading this book.

Thanks

 

[abaddon]

From everyone's favorite bogus space yarn, CARRYING THE FIRE;


"Of course the ground can take its measurements as well, but it really has no way of judging where the LM came down, except by comparing Neil and Buzz's description of their surrounding terrain (lurain?) with the rather crude maps which Houston has."

Patrick1000: This book is about 490 pages, so can you please post page numbers to make it easier to read the ections that you are quoting. I have asked you for page numbers on two previous occasions as i'm currently reading this book.

Thanks

He/she/it won't do that because he/she/it hasn't read it.

 

[Multivac]

He/she/it won't do that because he/she/it hasn't read it.

I'm sure you're right abaddon, but the more times he/she/it ignores the request, the more obvious it is that it/she/he doesn't know what she/he/it is talking about.

Or is patrick1000 sitting at home, laughing his balls off, as he makes us dance to his tune by rebutting his arguments?

 

[drewid]

I'm sure you're right abaddon, but the more times he/she/it ignores the request, the more obvious it is that it/she/he doesn't know what she/he/it is talking about.

Or is patrick1000 sitting at home, laughing his balls off, as he makes us dance to his tune by rebutting his arguments?

Making himself look daft in the process? Not unless he's some kind of masochist

 

[abaddon]

I'm sure you're right abaddon, but the more times he/she/it ignores the request, the more obvious it is that it/she/he doesn't know what she/he/it is talking about.

Or is patrick1000 sitting at home, laughing his balls off, as he makes us dance to his tune by rebutting his arguments?

Ah, a troll, you suspect. It's poor trolling at that. Nonetheless, it is amusing to see the vacuous arguments presented.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I drop in on the odd occasion when this thread shows up on the first page of New Posts. I am consistently amazed that rational posters are still engaged with P1K. He will not be swayed by evidence nor logic nor data. Yet, here we are on page 89 with JREF posters still trying to do that which is patently impossible, namely, elicit a reasonable response from P1K. Makes me wonder who is really irrational.

"Who is the bigger fool, the fool who theorizes conspiracies or the fool who attempts to debunk him?"

 

[Kiwi9]

I'll label that PNGS...
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS
...PNGS

Patrick1000 really does have a habit of repeating himself, mistakes and all. Fifteen times in one post.

Back in Apollo 11's time the abbreviaton was PGNCS, for Primary Guidance, Navigation and Control System. The astronauts pronounced it "pings."


And Patrick1000 is avoiding questions and requests as usual, so I will repeat my unanswered ones here:

In your own words, Patrick1000, please tell us your understanding of the following:
1. How the rendezvous radar was turned on so that Reed could do what he claimed.
2. The length of time between Frank Borman becoming ill and Chuck Berry talking to the Apollo 8 crew.

Perhaps you could also say whether you think the Apollo 8 crew could have cleaned up the cabin before Berry spoke to them, and whether you think they had to clean up bucketsful that were splattered everywhere, or just a few relatively minor globs of goo.

Please also tell us what was said during that discussion between Berry and the crew, and give us all the information you have on what the medical people in Mission Control discussed, particularly their diagnosis of Borman's illness.

 

[tsig]

"Who is the bigger fool, the fool who theorizes conspiracies or the fool who attempts to debunk him?"

Or the fool that points out the foolishness to the fools?

 

[drewid]

+++infinite recursion loop error+++
+++redo from start+++

 

[R.A.F.]

An argument that finding yourself way outside your designated, and studied, landing site presents a significant degree of additional risk certainly has some validity.

Which I consider irrelevant. How was landing "long" any more of a "risk"? I would think allowing the automatic controls to land in an unfavorable site to be much more "risky".

...and "Patty" is trying to "use" that supposed "risk" to say the landings didn't happen.

But, yes, I do see your point and apologize for "shooting from the hip".

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Or the fool that points out the foolishness to the fools?

thanks! Made my lunch!

 

[R.A.F.]

Everyone? That's not what I hear with respect to who laughs with regard to whom.

This explains everything. Those voices you hear in your head are lying to you.


That must be the answer, since NO ONE HERE agrees with you.

 

[grmcdorman]

For the people enjoying the factual data in this thread (i.e. not Patrick), here are couple of interesting items:

• In 2007, a hoax believer wanted to know why Venus didn't show up in Apollo 14 pictures. One of the posters on ApolloHoax then analyzed the pictures - and found it exactly where it was expected to be. It shows up in several pictures at the appropriate position, so it's not dust or other artifacts. Analysis thread: http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=theories&thread=995
• More recently, other individuals have compared weather patterns in Apollo pictures of the earth to satellite pictures of weather. They are, again, an exact match. Thread: http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=theories&action=display&thread=3132

In both cases, this is independent evidence that was found more that 30 years later in the record. So we've got fakers that are so competent they cover these details, but are so incompetent any internet warrior can see the obvious errors?

I don't think so.

 

[R.A.F.]

Patrick1000 really does have a habit of repeating himself, mistakes and all. Fifteen times in one post.

Back in Apollo 11's time the abbreviaton was PGNCS, for Primary Guidance, Navigation and Control System. The astronauts pronounced it "pings."

That is funny, and demonstrates his level of understanding concerning Apollo.

 

[grmcdorman]

An argument that finding yourself way outside your designated, and studied, landing site presents a significant degree of additional risk certainly has some validity. Did you think I was alluding to another aspect of P1K's argument?

But they didn't find themselves outside the designated landing ellipse, as others have pointed out.

What Patrick appears to have done here is a common CT tactic: conflating two different things. He appears to have taken the precision the LM guidance systems were capable of, and used that as the size of the target landing ellipse.

 

[grmcdorman]

Oh, and as for expressing relief after touchdown: the LM astronauts were busy. From the ALSJ (many explanatory comments removed):

102:45:40 Aldrin: Contact Light.

[At least one of the probes hanging from three of the footpads has touched the surface. Each of them is 67 inches (1.73 meters) long. The ladder strut doesn't have a probe. Buzz made the call at 20:17:40 GMT/UTC on 20 July 1969.]

102:45:43 Armstrong (onboard): Shutdown

102:45:44 Aldrin: Okay. Engine Stop.

102:45:45 Aldrin: ACA out of Detent.

102:45:46 Armstrong: Out of Detent. Auto.

102:45:47 Aldrin: Mode Control, both Auto. Descent Engine Command Override, Off. Engine Arm, Off. 413 is in.

102:45:57 Duke: We copy you down, Eagle.

102:45:58 Armstrong (onboard): Engine arm is off. (Pause) (Now on voice-activated comm) Houston, Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed.

102:46:06 Duke: (Momentarily tongue-tied) Roger, Twan...(correcting himself) Tranquility. We copy you on the ground. You got a bunch of guys about to turn blue. We're breathing again. Thanks a lot.

102:46:16 Aldrin: Thank you.

[It is easy to understand how Charlie got momentarily tongue-tied when Neil reported the landing. There was not only the excitement and thrill of what they had all just achieved; but, also, after the intense concentration of the last few minutes, the sudden change in call sign from "Eagle" to "Tranquility".]

102:46:18 Duke: You're looking good here.

102:46:23 Armstrong: Okay. (To Buzz) Let's get on with it. (To Houston) Okay. We're going to be busy for a minute.

[They will now prepare for immediate lift-off, in case, as an example, they have damaged an ascent fuel tank in the landing.]

So, Duke - CAPCOM - expresses relief. Armstrong & Aldrin don't, but they are busy without pause: they have just shut down the engines and set the controls for the post-landing state, and are moving on to prepare for a possible emergency lift-off.

See the Apollo 11 ALSJ for more details, including the explanatory comments I've edited out.

 

[R.A.F.]

But they didn't find themselves outside the designated landing ellipse, as others have pointed out.

What Patrick appears to have done here is a common CT tactic: conflating two different things. He appears to have taken the precision the LM guidance systems were capable of, and used that as the size of the target landing ellipse.

..and of course he completely ignores the extreme precision landing of Apollo 12.

 

[Patrick1000]

Well Tommy Can't Be Expected To Know All the Details

Hooray for self-debunking posts.

Well, drewid, can't expect Tommy to get every little fact straight. We do know they NEVER knew where the pretend stuffed bird was now don't we, because FIDO David Reed himself told us he didn't have the launch solution with his landing coordinates until a couple bogus Michael Collins phony revs before the mock pick up? Well that's not quite fair, that "NEVER" there, given they did have the coordinate right before the simulated lift off. What do you think drewid, was that unfair of me to write "NEVER"?

Maybe Tommy bumped into Shyster, somewhere in the Hallway of Mission Control, bumped into him a few hours into the Apollo 11 exercise. Tommy says,

"I heard you guys aren't sure exactly where they are?".

To which, Shyster, wearing a dumb grin, not to mention a thick gold chain as well, a thick gold chain suspending a compass dangling from the mathematicians neck, compass dangling like the guy's some kinda' geek rap artist, says,

"Don't worry Tommy, everything is under control. Lookie here at this MAP!!! I got. See I found them".

To which Tommy Kelly, the Lander Engineer walks away feeling relieved as everybody has told him how very smart and capable Shyster is/was.

Maybe something like that drewid accounts for the "seeming discrepancy" there between Thomas Kelly's writing in his book that the astronauts were only lost for the "first few hours" and our now knowing in retrospect they didn't even know where the 3 blind mice were pretending to be well into the phony return trip to earth day six-seven infamous "64 thousand dollar question conversation", and even for many days after that staged interaction between McCandless and Armstrong.

What do you think drewid of that one possible explanation for the "seeming discrepancy"?

 

[mrbusdriver]

Patty,

You have sited a number of sources in building your fantasy scenario. I have just one question, and I suspect strongly that you will not answer it, based on your record.

Have you asked any of your sources whether they believe Apollo was faked or not, based on YOUR interpretations of their statements?

It's a direct question. I would appreciate an answer.