UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[23_Tauri]

Then there are the so-called experts with all the credentials ... who was it who just recently decided to pack ufology in after he was accused of faking his credentials ... Imbrogno I think. For me, physical evidence and academic credentials cause me to be more, not less suspicious. I tend to make exceptions for certain types though, like pilots ( especially military ) or recognized scientists like Hynek.

Why? Not only appeal to authority, but selective appeal to authority. Reason?

As for still believing that military pilots are more likely to spot and alien spaceship from a hypnogogic illusion, or enemy aircraft, didn't you read Puddle Duck's post? Or is your fantasy of the men in uniform so entrenched that even when one of them tells you it's not true you still can't accept it?

I wouldn't worry too much though, love-struck lasses have this problem all the time.

 

[23_Tauri]

You know, I think it would be. But it also assumes his esitmate of the size and distance are correct.

Ah ha, that's good to know, thank you JimOfAllTrades. That means that my post here wasn't the "exaggeration and tall-tale" that folo said is was.

To re-cap, I suggested the following scenario (although I'm sure it has occured to most here as a possibility):

Like a car at night, ( maybe even a VW Beetle! ) coming down the highway with its headlights on. Then it disappeared and moments later some fireflies started a figure of eight mating dance a few metres in front of the observer. It's quite dark, and the observer might get a little confused, thinking that the latter lights were the same object as the former.

 

[23_Tauri]

JimOfAllTrades:

Thanks for the calculations there. But just to note. A VW is 13.55 feet long, so you can more than double your estimates, which sounds about right ( 8-9 times the apparent size of Jupiter ) for the core, and then there was a glow around the thing, that extended out about 3 times the width of the core all around it and tapered off fairly rapidly after that. So again, hardly a "point of light".

It's coming a'cha, folo! It's coming down the mountain, hence you're description of seeing the object with a white glow around it that was larger than the object itself. Then it disappeared into the trees, according to your description of events. Stands to reason that the headlights are pointing towards you!

 

[23_Tauri]

Ufology is not a religion. Cherry picking bits and pieces of various religions and applying them to some activity and rationalizing that as a religion just isn't good enough. With respect to the word origin for religion, ufology has no gods.

Did you even read Chuck's post?

Religion is not defined by its appurtenances. As example, Zen Buddhism requires no worship and has no deities,

You don't need gods to form a religion.

With respect to the definition, ufology espouses no spiritual or moral values other than to try to present the subject matter as honestly as possible.

All too often, UFOlogy (the hobby) espouses that the alien visitors are more advanced than us and that the human race has something to learn from them. In my opinion, that belief embodies moral values about humanity.

I think UFOlogy does quite well in the god department. Many people who believe the aliens are here also believe that the aliens are more powerful than us, (even omnipotent) and are here for the purposes of spreading a better moral code amongst humanity. God-like traits, wouldn't you agree, folo?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Chuck,

From Wikipedia:

"Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and moral values."

Etymology: Religion (from O.Fr. religion "religious community," from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods,"

======================
List of Religions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions
======================

Ufology is not a religion. Cherry picking bits and pieces of various religions and applying them to some activity and rationalizing that as a religion just isn't good enough. With respect to the word origin for religion, ufology has no gods. With respect to the definition, ufology espouses no spiritual or moral values other than to try to present the subject matter as honestly as possible. So what? And it isn't in any list of world religions. So stop trying to portray ufology as a religion when it's not. Doing so is a complete misrepresentation.

That definition covers pretty much what can be observed among the UFO community. At first I had doubt about "the establishment of symbols that relate to moral values", but then I remembered how frequently people reporting direct encounters with alien beings say that they received special messages from them. The aliens, at least some varieties, are often seen as guiding humanity in some way, particularly towards world peace and are also seen observing military installations.

 

[Stray Cat]

Chuck,

From Wikipedia:

"Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and moral values."

Etymology: Religion (from O.Fr. religion "religious community," from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods,"

======================
List of Religions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions
======================

Ufology is not a religion. Cherry picking bits and pieces of various religions and applying them to some activity and rationalizing that as a religion just isn't good enough. With respect to the word origin for religion, ufology has no gods. With respect to the definition, ufology espouses no spiritual or moral values other than to try to present the subject matter as honestly as possible. So what? And it isn't in any list of world religions. So stop trying to portray ufology as a religion when it's not. Doing so is a complete misrepresentation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion

 

[Drs_Res]

That definition covers pretty much what can be observed among the UFO community. At first I had doubt about "the establishment of symbols that relate to moral values", but then I remembered how frequently people reporting direct encounters with alien beings say that they received special messages from them. The aliens, at least some varieties, are often seen as guiding humanity in some way, particularly towards world peace and are also seen observing military installations.

No.

What they are doing is leading the people like sheep. They make them think that they guiding them to world peace. In the mean time, they are working with the military to enslave us all!

 

[Sideroxylon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion

These sort of ideas are very commonly expressed by the flying saucer community:

Adherents believe that the arrival or rediscovery of alien civilizations, technologies and spirituality will enable humans to overcome their current ecological, spiritual and social problems. Issues such as hatred, war, bigotry, poverty and so on are said to be resolvable through the use of superior alien technology and spiritual abilities. Such belief systems are described as millenarian in their outlook.

 

[Sideroxylon]

No.

What they are doing is leading the people like sheep. They make them think that they guiding them to world peace. In the mean time, they are working with the military to enslave us all!

The reptilians maybe but not the greys.

 

[Tomtomkent]

How could we possibly pretend to know what the aliens intentions are from observing a UFO. Yes, they may be "watching" a military base, or "controlling", "invading", or "confused by". A ufo is unidentified, and we have no evidence of communication, through guidance or any other means. No EVIDENCE at all.

Is not a little difficult to deduce any motive from an absense of evidence?

 

[Sideroxylon]

How could we possibly pretend to know what the aliens intentions are from observing a UFO. Yes, they may be "watching" a military base, or "controlling", "invading", or "confused by". A ufo is unidentified, and we have no evidence of communication, through guidance or any other means. No EVIDENCE at all.

Is not a little difficult to deduce any motive from an absense of evidence?

You do it the same way you go from an unknown light in the sky to seeing a surveillance drone. You don the UFO Goggles.

 

[Aepervius]

333 pages and all we have for evidence up to now, is possibly some nightly "firefly porn"... And Ufology making up his own dictionary and encyclopedia.

 

[Stray Cat]

Ufology is not a religion.

...[snippity snip]...

So stop trying to portray ufology as a religion when it's not. Doing so is a complete misrepresentation.

 

[GeeMack]

I've updated that detail now to avoid future confusion.

Translate: "I've changed the story again in order to keep a firm grip on my faith in aliens."

What is it about your space alien tale that couldn't just as easily be explained by some god planting visions directly in your head?

 

[carlitos]

Akhenaten,

Yes you are right, I should have been more precise and I've fixed it now. Cool job on the VW graphic!

Self-correcting memories can be amazingly precise.

Translate: "I've changed the story again in order to keep a firm grip on my faith in aliens."

What is it about your space alien tale that couldn't just as easily be explained by some god planting visions directly in your head?

ufology won't honestly answer that question.

More and more, I'm thinking that it's what Cuddles said. He came here to get his story straight for when he shares his tall tale elsewhere.

 

[edge]

You have photo of a dog?

Is this the best evidence you have for the "evidence" thread?

Or do you actually have anything to support your silly stories?

I didn't think so.

What do have A.D.D. or something, I said in my profile.
It's about establishing time lines.

 

[carlitos]

What do have A.D.D. or something, I said in my profile.
It's about establishing time lines.

Grammar, edge. Please consider it.

 

[TjW]

[qimg]http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p133/debs711/facepaw-1.png[/qimg]
It's coming a'cha, folo! It's coming down the mountain, hence you're description of seeing the object with a white glow around it that was larger than the object itself. Then it disappeared into the trees, according to your description of events. Stands to reason that the headlights are pointing towards you!

Obviously, he forgot to make clear that the headlights were each as big as two Volkswagens stacked on top of one another. How many Earthly vehicles are there with headlights that size? Therefore, aliens.

 

[Correa Neto]

Its undeniable that parts of UFOlogy share a lot of similarities with cults and religions. Esoteric UFOlogy is the prime example of this. I remember back in my UFOnut times some UFOlogists praying for the enlightned and superior UFOnauts, others were eager to receive "revelations" from the aliens while others claimed to receive messages from them... Heck, we saw it right here at JREF.

Contactees with their revelations and messages may create small sects of followers. Some people are eagerly awaiting the aliens' arrival, an event supposed to change Earth's history, quite often in some sort of apocalypse. Some sects even have their temples, books, rituals and clothes the faithfull are supposed to wear. I could go on, but its overkill.

If ufology denies this aspect of UFOlogy, only two options are left:
1. He is arbitrarily selecting aspects of UFO phenomena to build his own UFOlogy.
2. He is just ignorant of UFO phenomena.
IMHO option (1) is the answer.

 

[carlitos]

It's option #1, if you look at his web page. His dismissive attitude to the more "esoteric" aspects of UFOlogy is plain - look at how he dismissed Snads space fishes. He is completely unable (or, more likely, unwilling) to logically demonstrate how his reasoning is different from believers of cryptozoology, religion, and the like.