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Merged Smoking should be banned universally

Responding to Thines' good post (and it was), keep in mind that it's not just lung cancer that could be the result of smoking. Smoking does other things to you that can kill you.

It can wreck your blood pressure, damage your heart, lead to strokes and heart attacks and COPD. My mom was smoker. She died at 79 from it, and the last few years of her life were relatively expensive in terms of care. More expensive than had she not smoked, I'm guessing. She needed a home oxygen generator, a scooter to get around her own tiny apartment because she hadn't the strength or breath to walk, and boxes of medications that had to be delivered to her because she couldn't get out to get them for herself. A housekeeper paid for by the state, because she couldn't clean her own house anymore. A few hospital stays. Hospice end-of-life care.

She developed COPD in her 50s. It took almost 30 years for it to finally kill her. That's not "quick." And she continued to smoke two cigarettes a day until the last year of her life, when she simply couldn't breathe enough to blow the smoke back out.

My brother was a smoker. He died at 59 from having two major heart attacks, two weeks apart. And he had COPD, too. So he fits the premise Thines laid out, but my mother did not. It just depends, I guess. In general, Thines is quite right.

However, I wouldn't call for it to be banned. As has been said, something has to kill us. If people choose smoking, that should be up to them.
I don't disagree with any of the above. And yet, even though tobacco smoking is implicited in a range of illnesses, estimates still put the amount of money paid by smokers in tax in the UK to exceed the amount it costs the NHS to treat smoking related diseases. Meaning smokers not only pay for their own health care, they subsidise the health-care of non-smokers as well.

At least in the UK, we do cover our costs, and some.
 
Funny. My aunt smoked for over 40 years. Then she quit. Died at 87. Never had lung cancer of any sort.

I find the hysterical crowd fun to laugh at.
 
Funny. My aunt smoked for over 40 years. Then she quit. Died at 87. Never had lung cancer of any sort.

I find the hysterical crowd fun to laugh at.

You can have sex with someone that has HIV and not get infected too.

Doesn't make it a good idea.
 
Lying about HIV status was not part of the analogy.

You should have stated that. If you have sex with somebody who does not inform you that they are HIV positive, or lies to you, does the analogy work?
 
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You should have stated that. If you have sex with somebody who does not inform you that they are HIV positive, or lies to you, does the analogy work?

He needn't have stated that. If you have sex with someone who lies to you about being HIV positive, does their deceit affect the chances of getting infected? The analogy works.
 
You should have stated that. If you have sex with somebody who does not inform you that they are HIV positive, or lies to you, does the analogy work?

You can have sex with someone knowing they have HIV and not get infected.

Being exposed to a carcinogen doesn't guarantee you get cancer either. It just significantly increases the chances.

Point is, pointing out one person who didn't get HIV/Cancer from risky behavior doesn't make the behavior less risky.

Another example: Running a red light doesn't guarantee you'll get into an accident even in a crowded intersection. That doesn't make it a good idea either.

The reason why things like pollution and smoking are looked at different is because the risk builds up over time very slowly, rather than being the result of one decision. It doesn't change the level of risk from that longterm behavior, but it dramatically changes how people FEEL about it.
 
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Let me chime in here to correct a common misconception as noted in the OP where it is stated that smoking puts further pressure on the healthcare system. In fact, the health effects of smoking, especially lung cancer, kill you quick, kill you young and kill you cheap. Sadly, us non-smokers are not immortal. We all will die of something. And that something is quite likely to be a something that eats up many more health care dollars (or pounds or euros or whatever) that does lung cancer. You know, like Alzheimer's Disease. A 1997 Dutch study (Barendregt et al. New England Journal of Medicine, 337, 1052-57) found that the average lifetime health care costs for a smoker was $83,700. For a non smoker it was $97,200. In addition, smokers tend to die right around the time they would retire. So, they've made their contributions but don't get to collect from social security type funds that us longer living non-smokers get to collect from. So, in fact, smokers, by dying fast, young and cheap save the health care system a considerable amount of money.
This is not to say that smoking deaths are "good" but one needs to get the facts straight about the actual effects of smoking on health care costs to have a rational argument about the topic.

However, you can suffer from Alzheimer's disease AND be a smoker, or any disease that is a cost to the health service, AND be a smoker too. So the costs of treating say Alzheimers for a patient is increased when treating the same patient for smoking related disease. Would that show in the comparative figures? I doubt it!
 
What about living with the exhaust of combustion engines? Don't I have a right not to breath in the exhaust? And I mean ban them everywhere.

Don't I have a right not to live with fast food making people unhealthy? If there were only healthy options I wouldn't have to pay for someone's heart attack.

Don't I have a right not to get attacked by a drunk? Don't I have a right to be free of drunk people? Don't I have a right not to get injured or killed by the drunk driver? Or pay for the medical bills of those with liver damage, alcohol poisoning or alcoholic lung?

Why not ban soft drinks? They can drink water or tea. Why should these beverages be promoted to people when there is no nutrition value to them? I have to pay to subsidize the poor choices of others?

OR...tax all of them. Prohibit them when appropriate, and let people make their own bad decisions.

I agree, and the banning of smoking is appropriate in this case!
 
I agree, and the banning of smoking is appropriate in this case!
Why? Please support your argument for making tobacco illegal.

Explain what the consequences of prohibition would be, what it would achieve, and on what you base your assumptions. Thank you.
 
However, you can suffer from Alzheimer's disease AND be a smoker, or any disease that is a cost to the health service, AND be a smoker too. So the costs of treating say Alzheimers for a patient is increased when treating the same patient for smoking related disease. Would that show in the comparative figures? I doubt it!
Obesity is a compounding factor in a range of illnesses, and yet clinically obese people aren't made to pay higher taxes than normal weight people. Is this fair?
 
However, you can suffer from Alzheimer's disease AND be a smoker, or any disease that is a cost to the health service, AND be a smoker too. So the costs of treating say Alzheimers for a patient is increased when treating the same patient for smoking related disease. Would that show in the comparative figures? I doubt it!

I beleive there was a study a couple of years ago that showed smokers had a lower incidence of Alzheimers. Perhaps the optimal solution is to encourage the smoking. Less change of making it to the at risk years. Lower risk when you reach them.
 
I beleive there was a study a couple of years ago that showed smokers had a lower incidence of Alzheimers. Perhaps the optimal solution is to encourage the smoking. Less change of making it to the at risk years. Lower risk when you reach them.

Typically one in twenty of such studies are wrong. A lot of them are done to just the 95% confidence level. That's what further studies to confirm effects is important.

Also, correlation does not equal causation. For all we know, smoking kills off enough of the less robust people that only the people with really good genes are still around by the time Alzheimer's comes around. They would be less likely to get it based on that.
 
He needn't have stated that. If you have sex with someone who lies to you about being HIV positive, does their deceit affect the chances of getting infected? The analogy works.

Let us agree to differ. On another tack, a retired policeman once told me that he had never arrested a pipe smoker.
 
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