Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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codyjuneau said:
It seems to me that DNA contamination/transfer is like catching the flu. You don't know when, where or how you contacted the virus. But you know you did!
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Thought about LJ's food poisoning idea but yours is far superior.

It is short, not convoluted and everyone can relate to it. Every judge would say to himself that I get colds and the flu and rarely know where it came from.

It also works in terms of prevention. We all know that washing hands etc. can keep the bugs away, but if one doesn't follow good hygiene at all times it is always possible to catch something.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Dave:

WTF were they charged with, besides murder? Was murder the only charge, or were there, as in many cases here in the US, other charges as well ... like obstruction of justice and such.

No need to include the charge for illegal cartwheel in a police station, that's been covered nicely, thanks.
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Hehehe Darth,

cartwheels, that's funny. I don't remember the original charges exactly, but I think the convictions were murder for both (with reduced sentences, from 30, because of mitigating circumstances) with one year added on because Amanda carried the "murder" weapon hidden in her "big" purse.

Also, Rudy chose the fast track trial and plead guilty, while Amanda and Raffaele didn't and that's why the separate trials, but I may be wrong.

Anyone else know for sure?

Dave
 
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Dave, Rudy didn't plead guilty.

They were charged with a number of crimes including staging. They were also charged with theft.

From Wiki:They were indicted in October 2008 by Judge Micheli and charged with murder, sexual assault, simulating a crime (burglary), carrying a knife and theft of 300 euros, two credit cards and two mobile phones
 
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Grinder said:
Dave, Rudy didn't plead guilty.

They were charged with a number of crimes including staging. They were also charged with theft.
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Rudy is a viciously sick and twisted sociopathic idiot anyway, who (by the way) will be free before this decade is over.
 
Grinder said:
From Wiki:They were indicted in October 2008 by Judge Micheli and charged with murder, sexual assault, simulating a crime (burglary), carrying a knife and theft of 300 euros, two credit cards and two mobile phones
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Thank you for the info Grinder,

but don't tell me. Tell Darth.

Because regardless (I explained of what they were finally convicted in the first trial instance), Rudy chose the fast track trial (same as pleading guilty in my mind) and that's why the separate trials. Amanda and Raffaele wanted to prove their innocence,

Dave
 
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AmyStrange said:
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Rudy is a viciously sick and twisted sociopathic idiot anyway
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I don't think so. I think he's just a fairly ordinary criminal, who committed a fairly ordinary (if nonetheless awful) crime.

Beware the death spiral of hate. The fact that Rudy is the villain in this story doesn't mean that everything that could be wrong with a person is true about him.
 
komponisto said:
I don't think so. I think he's just a fairly ordinary criminal, who committed a fairly ordinary (if nonetheless awful) crime.

Beware the death spiral of hate. The fact that Rudy is the villain in this story doesn't mean that everything that could be wrong with a person is true about him.
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Maybe Komponisto,

but trying to have sex with someone while they drown in their own blood and then trying to shift the blame to Amanda and Raffaele (or anyone else for that matter) is not the actions of any "ordinary" criminal that I know, in my opinion of course,

Dave
 
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Justinian2 said:
http://007nab.deviantart.com/art/Vue-Avatar-Mountains-WIP-148348937

The whole case against Amanda is like these mountains in Avatar that float in thin air. There is no support to the case that isn't built upon other floating mountains.

In all these discussions I've yet to hear any bedrock proofs by the prosecution or other guilters.
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Well said Justinian,

it reminds me of that movie "My Cousin Vinny" where he compares the prosecutions case to a brick structure that when you look at each brick one way (using a playing card as an example), they look solid, but when you look at them more closely (he turns the card sideways) they are flat and not solid at all, then flips the card face up and it's a totally different card.

I love that movie,

Dave
 
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AmyStrange said:
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Maybe Komponisto,

but trying to have sex with someone while they drown in their own blood and then blaming it on Amanda and Raffaele is not the actions of any ordinary criminal I know, in my opinion of course,

Dave
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It's extremely bad, no question; "ordinary" should not be confused with "mild". But we're still talking about a burglar who panicked in the spur of the moment, not (e.g.) a serial killer who does it for pleasure.

Also, I doubt that Guede is an "idiot". He is probably at least average in intelligence.
 
komponisto said:
It's extremely bad, no question; "ordinary" should not be confused with "mild". But we're still talking about a burglar who panicked in the spur of the moment, not (e.g.) a serial killer who does it for pleasure.

Also, I doubt that Guede is an "idiot". He is probably at least average in intelligence.
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I'll give you the "idiot" part Komponisto,

but how do you know he isn't a serial killer or wouldn't become one eventually? Serial killers have to start with someone and isn't that what the meat of the theory behind Rudy's escalating criminal behavior was all about? In my opinion anyway.

And also, what were those other crimes to which Curatolo was a super witness? I heard rumours they were murders.

Where was Rudy during those crimes? Did Curatolo cover for him then too?

Dave

ETA: have you ever read up on the case of Andrei Chikatilo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Chikatilo) who killed for sexual pleasure but sometimes was not able to peform after the murder. Sorry for going OT here...
 
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komponisto said:
It's extremely bad, no question; "ordinary" should not be confused with "mild". But we're still talking about a burglar who panicked in the spur of the moment, not (e.g.) a serial killer who does it for pleasure.

Also, I doubt that Guede is an "idiot". He is probably at least average in intelligence.
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If the recent book, The Fatal Gift of Beauty is to be believed, there is some evidence that Rudy has some serious mental and/or emotional issues that have never been fully revealed or treated. Although we have not really been privy to any details of what treatment and/or rehabilitation Rudy might have gotten since his arrest, my guess is that the assumption that he is simply a petty criminal who ended up raping and killing might be concealing some deeper problem. I don't disagree that this appears to be a simple case of a break in that went bad, but there was a pattern of behavior from Rudy in the year or two leading up to the murder, which, combined with some serious mental and physical abuse he experienced as a child, may indicate that he was a ticking time bomb. I agree, all evidence is that he is at least average in intelligence, i just wonder if there are other issues no one really has identified yet.
 
I really wished we knew what he told the German police if they, in fact, interviewed him.

I would also like to see the recordings of ILE's interrogations.
 
Dougm said:
If the recent book, The Fatal Gift of Beauty is to be believed, there is some evidence that Rudy has some serious mental and/or emotional issues that have never been fully revealed or treated. Although we have not really been privy to any details of what treatment and/or rehabilitation Rudy might have gotten since his arrest, my guess is that the assumption that he is simply a petty criminal who ended up raping and killing might be concealing some deeper problem. I don't disagree that this appears to be a simple case of a break in that went bad, but there was a pattern of behavior from Rudy in the year or two leading up to the murder, which, combined with some serious mental and physical abuse he experienced as a child, may indicate that he was a ticking time bomb. I agree, all evidence is that he is at least average in intelligence, i just wonder if there are other issues no one really has identified yet.
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Thanks for this info, Dougm. Given that I have not read The Fatal Gift, could you give us a few more details about Guede's apparent complex?
 
Dougm said:
If the recent book, The Fatal Gift of Beauty is to be believed, there is some evidence that Rudy has some serious mental and/or emotional issues that have never been fully revealed or treated. Although we have not really been privy to any details of what treatment and/or rehabilitation Rudy might have gotten since his arrest, my guess is that the assumption that he is simply a petty criminal who ended up raping and killing might be concealing some deeper problem. I don't disagree that this appears to be a simple case of a break in that went bad, but there was a pattern of behavior from Rudy in the year or two leading up to the murder, which, combined with some serious mental and physical abuse he experienced as a child, may indicate that he was a ticking time bomb. I agree, all evidence is that he is at least average in intelligence, i just wonder if there are other issues no one really has identified yet.
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I think there were indeed issues, psychological complexes at work, within Guede. And that the crime may have been simple in its details and execution, but more complex in its motive and origins.
 
Justinian2 said:
http://007nab.deviantart.com/art/Vue-Avatar-Mountains-WIP-148348937

The whole case against Amanda is like these mountains in Avatar that float in thin air. There is no support to the case that isn't built upon other floating mountains.

In all these discussions I've yet to hear any bedrock proofs by the prosecution or other guilters.
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I object, floating mountains are too cool to associate with Mignini.;)

I say a better visual example is the Tacoma Narrows Bridge which despite being an impressive structure of steal and concrete was so badly designed all it took to bring it down was the wind on a not even stormy day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
smkovalinksy said:
I think there were indeed issues, psychological complexes at work, within Guede. And that the crime may have been simple in its details and execution, but more complex in its motive and origins.
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just a guess (and in no way to be considered accurate in any sense of the word), but maybe he did have an appointment with Meredith to buy some pot from the guy's stash downstairs, came on to Meredith, she rejected him, and this set him off in a blind rage of temporary insanity. Some criminal profilers have postulated (not saying I agree, but it is interesting that many of the women Bundy is accused of killing generally had the same style and hair color) that a women's rejection of him (Elizabeth Kendall, a pseudonym used by the author of "the Phantom Prince" which was an account of her life with Bundy) is what started Bundy off on his killing spree. As an aside, Bundy was also a petty criminal.

By the way, I have read somewhere that Meredith sustained 57 stab wounds. Is this true?

Dave
 
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Grinder said:
I really wished we knew what he told the German police if they, in fact, interviewed him.

I would also like to see the recordings of ILE's interrogations.
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I don't know if the German police would need to interview him except to assess his desire to fight extradition. If they did, we could expect more lies. On November 13 he was at the the foreign office in Düsseldorf seeking asylum. He told them his name was Kevin Wade. (ref)
 
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