9/11 Truth Conversion And Mid-Life Crisis

[Walter Ego]

Kay was talking about people of some significance in the movement, not the marching blackshirts. For instance, look at those invited to "testify" at the Toronto hearings. Box Boy Gage is the youngest of the males (that picture of Jon Cole is very old).

All of the men shown there fit the "mid-life crisis" stereotype. Some other candidates for mid-life crisis include Webster Tarpley (kicked out of the Lyndon LaRouche movement in the great boomer purge of the 1990s), Dave Von Kleist, Arizona troofers like Blair Gadsby (hunger striker in 2008) and Kent Knudson (suicide in 2009).

Yes, this is correct. For his book Kay mostly interviewed the leaders and the most active members of the truth movement who are mostly middle-aged and older males.

On a side note, may I express my irritation at having this thread sidetracked by the usual truther trolls? My gripe is not with the trolls but with those who should know better but choose to humor them. The ignore feature is there for a reason. Use it.

 

[alienentity]

Jonathan Kay, author of the recently published Among The Truthers:



I think the mid-life crisis theory fits Gage and possibly Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin. Can anyone think of any more examples?

Niels Harrit comes to mind.

 

[Scott Sommers]

Kay was talking about people of some significance in the movement, not the marching blackshirts. For instance, look at those invited to "testify" at the Toronto hearings. Box Boy Gage is the youngest of the males (that picture of Jon Cole is very old).

All of the men shown there fit the "mid-life crisis" stereotype. Some other candidates for mid-life crisis include Webster Tarpley (kicked out of the Lyndon LaRouche movement in the great boomer purge of the 1990s), Dave Von Kleist, Arizona troofers like Blair Gadsby (hunger striker in 2008) and Kent Knudson (suicide in 2009).

This is why I keep asking, "What is a Truther?" If we mean people who, when asked by a marketing research agency, endorse items related to 9/11 conspiracy (some 15% of Americans, according to Angus Reid), the vast majority would have never heard of the Toronto Hearings and as much as they have, they would be irrelevant to their beliefs. In fact, most would probably have never heard of AE911T or Dicky Gage.

You use the term "of significance" to define this group. I wonder, how are they of significance? I suspect you are arguing backward. I mean, Gage et al have cloaked themselves in the appearance of 'significance', but in fact, have little impact of anyone outside their circle. The whole purpose of AE911T was to create this illusion of 'significance'. It is an organization aimed at appearing as though it represents professional dissent. It does not, nor does it have any influence. In fact, it barely exists. Gage and his gang can get a bunch of people together for a few days, especially if they have a lot of money, but they would be unable to operate in the long-term. Gage has 1500 names on an internet petition, but AE911T is only able to exist because it makes no demands from its members. If he said he was holding a rally and looking for people to gather names door-to-door, would anyone show up?

The people you see are figureheads. And that's a lot different from 'leadership' or 'significant people' or whatever. They have no organziational power, they have no ideological authority, and if they disappear, there is no damage done.

Besides, Walter original quote was

[A] surprisingly large number of conspiracy theorists [I met] were middle age men who had come to their beliefs very radically and suddenly.

to which I replied,

the number of middle-aged Truthers is not great. Most Truthers would be white men in their 20s. But that all depends what you mean by 'Truther'.

This is correct.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Hehe. Don't give him ideas. Kay gets enough money from the neocons to come up with his own tripe.

Very interesting...

[...]

So he's a neocon ..

Neocon?

I can cut and paste too:

"The Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD) is a non-partisan policy institute"

Those affiliated with FDD come from many backgrounds and political perspectives, but all believe:

No one should be denied basic human rights, including minority rights, women’s rights, and religious freedom.
Free and democratic nations have a right to defend themselves and an obligation to defend one another.
Terrorism, the deliberate use of violence against civilians to achieve political objectives, is always wrong and must never be condoned.

How the flip is that a neocon organisation?

 

[ozeco41]

...My gripe is not with the trolls but with those who should know better but choose to humor them. The ignore feature is there for a reason. Use it.

:

 

[Brainster]

This is why I keep asking, "What is a Truther?" If we mean people who, when asked by a marketing research agency, endorse items related to 9/11 conspiracy (some 15% of Americans, according to Angus Reid), the vast majority would have never heard of the Toronto Hearings and as much as they have, they would be irrelevant to their beliefs. In fact, most would probably have never heard of AE911T or Dicky Gage.

And I'd guess that many tellers at Bank of America have never heard of Brian Moynihan. And yet if a media company wanted to interview somebody about B of A they'd be a whole lot more likely to pick Moynihan than some random teller, just as the media is much more likely to interview Box Boy than they are some local WAC member. Luke himself has moved up the food chain, but only because he built an organization, like AP Giannini.

 

[Scott Sommers]

And I'd guess that many tellers at Bank of America have never heard of Brian Moynihan. And yet if a media company wanted to interview somebody about B of A they'd be a whole lot more likely to pick Moynihan than some random teller, just as the media is much more likely to interview Box Boy than they are some local WAC member. Luke himself has moved up the food chain, but only because he built an organization, like AP Giannini.

Comparing Gage to Bill Moynihan is not correct. We have to start by asking what is this thing that these people you called 'significant' have? What is that Bill Moynihan has that makes him 'significant'? He has tangible and material things that make him that way. Does Gage have any of those?

Moynihan has real power and authority. He is part of a real organization. He can connect you to real people with more power and authority. He can make sure that millions of people take you seriously. His word can arrange assistance, loans, access to government agencies. Gage has access to nothing meaningful. The ability to get interviewed doesn't mean anything because I can't figure out what it could possibly do. Does it convince viewers? Does it move

One of the major internal issues of 9/11 Truth is who has access to this meaningful stuff. Gage convinces people he does because he's cloaked himself in a symbolic language of 'importance' that you are recognizing. But he doesn't really have that. He doesn't really have 1500 architects and engineers at his call. Tony Z. might show up, but who would care? He doesn't really have any scientific papers. He posts things on his website and he looks for venues that don't vet submissions. He could not arrange anything for you, and anything he could, he would try to keep for himself because resources and money are so scarce among these guys. He has no ability through money or persuasion to get anything done.

Does that explain what I think is happening here?

As for Luke, I am not sure what you mean. He is the name I have consistently stated as having real 'significance' in 9/11 Truth. And as far as I'm concerned, WAC is the only real 9/11 Truth group. All the others are just Internet petitions. Is that what you mean?

 

[Brainster]

Comparing Gage to Bill Moynihan is not correct. We have to start by asking what is this thing that these people you called 'significant' have? What is that Bill Moynihan has that makes him 'significant'? He has tangible and material things that make him that way. Does Gage have any of those?

Moynihan has real power and authority. He is part of a real organization. He can connect you to real people with more power and authority. He can make sure that millions of people take you seriously. His word can arrange assistance, loans, access to government agencies. Gage has access to nothing meaningful. The ability to get interviewed doesn't mean anything because I can't figure out what it could possibly do. Does it convince viewers? Does it move

One of the major internal issues of 9/11 Truth is who has access to this meaningful stuff. Gage convinces people he does because he's cloaked himself in a symbolic language of 'importance' that you are recognizing. But he doesn't really have that. He doesn't really have 1500 architects and engineers at his call. Tony Z. might show up, but who would care? He doesn't really have any scientific papers. He posts things on his website and he looks for venues that don't vet submissions. He could not arrange anything for you, and anything he could, he would try to keep for himself because resources and money are so scarce among these guys. He has no ability through money or persuasion to get anything done.

Does that explain what I think is happening here?

As for Luke, I am not sure what you mean. He is the name I have consistently stated as having real 'significance' in 9/11 Truth. And as far as I'm concerned, WAC is the only real 9/11 Truth group. All the others are just Internet petitions. Is that what you mean?

Gage is 100 times more significant than Luke, because he is about 100x more likely to get interviewed on TV. And that is really the only significant thing about the Truth Movement these days; to get on the top media platform.

 

[atavisms]

I think the mid-life crisis theory fits Gage and possibly Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin. Can anyone think of any more examples?

Im sure the long list of facts that make the official explanations impossible and point overwhelmingly to the use of pre-planted explosives have nothing to do with it. Clearly, you cannot know much about 9-11 truth, or those involved in it (which cover every age group and political affiliation one can imagine) or you wouldnt have made such a foolish post in support of such an idiotic claim.

 

[newton3376]

Im sure the long list of facts that make the official explanations impossible and point overwhelmingly to the use of pre-planted explosives have nothing to do with it. Clearly, you cannot know much about 9-11 truth, or those involved in it (which cover every age group and political affiliation one can imagine) or you wouldnt have made such a foolish post in support of such an idiotic claim.

For other truthers it's just pure stupidity.

They don't understand the technical stuff so they have opinions based off of ignorance. I'm sure for some of them it's lack of knowledge...but for others it really is just basic stupidity.

 

[Oystein]

I think the mid-life crisis theory fits Gage and possibly Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin. Can anyone think of any more examples?

Aren't Jones and Griffin post-midlife? And so is Harrit.
I see examples there of a different kind of motivation: older men close to or just beyond retirement who realize they have not accomplished as much as they once hoped they would, and never will if they stick to their field of expertise. They found they get loud cheers and a feeling of being popular by leading this fringe.

 

[Scott Sommers]

Gage is 100 times more significant than Luke, because he is about 100x more likely to get interviewed on TV. And that is really the only significant thing about the Truth Movement these days; to get on the top media platform.

This is wrong. If this were the case, then the Truth Movemnt would be dead. But 9/11 conspiracy ideas are not reproduced because Gage posts something on the a website or appears on a local news station. He is a thousand times more likely to talk with someone from Congress or Senate, but that's irrelevant to the promotion of 9/11 conspiracy ideas. Appearing on TV or talking in Congress functions as a motivational symbol for already converted Truthers. I agree that DRG is a significant figure, or at least has been, but Gage has probably inspired no one to do anything more than add their name to an internet petition.

9/11 conspiracy certainly seems dead on the JREF, but it is firmly ensconced in other parts of American society. In fact, there are parts of American society right now where if you're not a conspiracy theorist, it's hard to fit in. For these guys, Gage is good to have around, but he can be replaced. Organizational skills are a little bit more difficult to come by.

 

[angrysoba]

Jonathan Kay, author of the recently published Among The Truthers:



I think the mid-life crisis theory fits Gage and possibly Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin. Can anyone think of any more examples?

Gage certainly says he was never interested in conspiracy theories until he heard DRG on the radio. And if he broke up with his wife and lost his real job to pursue the humble task of exposing the Greatest Cover-Up of the Greatest Crime Ever then probably there was something mid-life crisis-y about it.

Then again, Gage has since then said that every single occasion in which the US has ever gone to war has been as a result of a "false-flag" (on some radio debate he rattled off the USS Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor and Gulf of Tonkin, which is pretty ludicrous). I wonder if he could have only suddenly started believing all that.

As for Steven Jones, I think he's always been attracted to the fringe - such as with his investigations of cold fusion (yes, I realize he was the one who exposed it as false rather than claim it was true) and the stuff about Jesus' trip to the US.

David Ray Griffin just seems very, very old, so it could be a late-life crisis or senility. Not sure which.

Kevin Barrett certainly comes across as a walking mid-life crisis.

Charlie Sheen is certainly having one.

I don't know about Thierry Meyssan but he is certainly one of its early leaders.

Eric Hufshmid is simply a weirdo and probably has always been so.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is maybe having a mid-life crisis.