Merged Does CERN prove Einstein wrong?

Anders Lindman said:
The vacuum energy can be used as a frame of reference since it exists everywhere in space.
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You're not paying attention.

If there is an absolute reference frame, then it's clearly not moving with Earth.

If it's not moving with Earth, then experiments on Earth will be able to show the change in velocity of light speed due to the movement of Earth relative to the reference frame.

We have conducted the experiments, and such effects don't exist.

There is no absolute reference frame.

It's not a matter of how strongly photons are effected. Either the photons change velocity equal to how fast the Earth is moving relative to your absolute reference frame, or they don't. Experiments are universally clear that they don't.
 
Anders Lindman said:
I never said it did. Earth is moving THROUGH the vacuum energy.
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... which means that we should be able to detect the absolute reference frame by measuring the change in the speed of light. There is no such change. Do you understand this?
 
Anders Lindman said:
The vacuum energy consists of random fluctuations, but it's there and it can be used as a reference frame.
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No, it can't. The vacuum energy isn't preferential for any reference frame over any other; it's Lorentz invariant.

Hence, again, there is no absolute reference frame.
 
AvalonXQ said:
... which means that we should be able to detect the absolute reference frame by measuring the change in the speed of light. There is no such change. Do you understand this?
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I've highlighted the part where you've asked a silly question.
 
Now that we've combined the posts dealing with CERN, could we spin off the resulting discussion with Anders about relativity not being true into its own thread please?
 
Oh noes! You merged the sane thread with the crazy woo thread!

Edit- Damn you Avalon, beat me to it. lol
 
I got really confused for a second. I really don't think Anders' posts should be part of the CERN discussion, they're all CT related.
 
AvalonXQ said:
Now that we've combined the posts dealing with CERN, could we spin off the resulting discussion with Anders about relativity not being true into its own thread please?
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Gate2501 said:
Oh noes! You merged the sane thread with the crazy woo thread!

Edit- Damn you Avalon, beat me to it. lol
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Yes merging Lindman's nonsensical ramblings into a real science thread was a mistake.
 
AvalonXQ said:
... which means that we should be able to detect the absolute reference frame by measuring the change in the speed of light. There is no such change. Do you understand this?
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I'm not an expert in physics. I have to picture things in simple to understand terms. Picture the vacuum energy as very, very thin air. And a photon as a tennis ball moving through that air. In what way would the thin air change the direction or speed of the tennis ball? Essentially not at all. And then imagine a very large ball flying through the thin air representing planet Earth. Again, the thin air would have minuscule effect on the large ball. There WOULD be an effect, but so tiny that it can hardly be measured, except perhaps as the redshift observed in astronomy, but then we are talking about huge distances of many, many lightyears.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
If you were off Earth and the only thing you could see was the vacuum energy, how would you find Earth?
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The vacuum energy is of course not visible. So-called 'empty' space IS the vacuum energy.

"Vacuum energy is an underlying background energy that exists in space even when the space is devoid of matter (free space). ... The effects of vacuum energy can be experimentally observed in various phenomena such as spontaneous emission, the Casimir effect, the van der Waals bonds and the Lamb shift, and are thought to influence the behavior of the Universe on cosmological scales." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Are you both joking? I'm afraid I am satire challenged.
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No, I'm not joking. Just as a thought experiment, if a spaceship is traveling 0.3c away from Earth and then a headlight is switched on, then the photons (that travel straight ahead) from that light will have the velocity of 1.3c relative to Earth.
 
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