Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Nadeau updates on twitter are interesting. The chief prosecutor is actually saying something. Then Barbie says something about the jury's body language, if they are listening or bored. Doesn't sound like a great start for the chief prosecutor.
 
Is it? Are you talking about an American appeal where matters of law are usually the issue and not the findings of fact by the first trial?

Or are you talking about the Italian system where the appeals trial almost constitutes a new trial? And if you are talking about an Italian appeal could you give us some feel about other trials that you based your conclusion on? And how does the weakening of the prosecutor's case in this trial compare with the other cases your comment was based on?


It's weird: nearly the entire media community is misrepresenting the mechanism of the "appeal" in the sense of its function here. The appeal trial in fact is not at all about "upholding" or "overturning" the verdict of the Massei trial. It is an entirely new trial, which pays no heed to the arguments, deliberations or verdicts that have gone before. Hellmann's court is categorically not making an assessment of the verdicts handed down by Massei's court. Instead, Hellmann's court is looking at the case entirely afresh (albeit using evidence/testimony from other trials as part of its fact base), with entirely new arguments from all parties and an entirely new deliberation and verdict.

I can't figure out who among the English-speaking media community realise what the appeal trial really means, but are lazily choosing to employ a convenient (but misleading) shorthand of "uphold" and "overturn". I sadly suspect that a fair proportion of media personnel covering this case still can't think beyond the UK/US meaning of "appeal"*, and that this ignorance is colouring their reporting.

On a slightly unrelated topic, as others have observed, since it's prosecution arguments today and tomorrow, the media output from Perugia is very likely to be dominated by prosecution talking points. This has to be borne in mind when analysing the coverage. I see that Costagliola - as predicted - has kicked off the prosecution's closing argument. I wonder if Comodi is in court today.........


* In the US/UK system, an appeal does indeed examine the process and verdict of the previous trial, and ultimately issues an opinion on whether the verdict in the previous trial was safe or unsafe. Furthermore, the burden rests on the appellant (i.e. the convicted person) to convince the appeal judges either that there were significant procedural/law issues in the previous trial that led to conviction, or that significant new evidence has come to light which renders the first court's conviction in doubt. None of this is the case in Italian appeal trials such as Knox's/Sollecito's current trial. The prosecution has to prove its case from scratch once again, and the burden of proof is entirely upon the prosecutors (and court) to prove guilt beyond all doubt based in human reason.
 
Nadeau updates on twitter are interesting. The chief prosecutor is actually saying something. Then Barbie says something about the jury's body language, if they are listening or bored. Doesn't sound like a great start for the chief prosecutor.

What does it mean Rose, when a listener touches his/her face? What does it mean?
 
LOL. Something Ominous, surely.

Makes me think of the Double Rainbow guy. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!?!

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BTW. Just as a pop quiz.

How many of you would ACCUSE YOUR FRIEND/ employer AS A MURDERER?

Under what circumstances? If overwhelmingly say yes..I would ask why?

let's say, umm, research?

I would, honestly. Why would Amanda accuse Patrick, because the police wanted to use a text between Amanda and Patrick as evidence.

I find it quite sad that as a (former?) South-African you're obviously unaware of two things:

1. South Africa's history, where a country was brainwashed and our black brothers and sisters TORTURED to confess to all kinds of thing and to believe in being less than a human being.

2. A wonderfull website on the internet: Google.com Try it. Trust me, this happens in the real world...

Just... Wow... It boggles the mind...:jaw-dropp
 
LOL. Something Ominous, surely.

Speaking of ominous, Harry Rag and I were having some nice conversations going on in Twitterverse. Him and Somealibi were going off about Steve Moore's "plead guilty" error. I brought up the fact that Garafano says that Meredith and Rudy might have been in a relationship, which is total hogwash, yet they still quote him all the time and love him to death. Not exactly consistent principles. I also asked when he was going to take down references to Miss Represented's fake credentials. Amazingly I haven't heard from him in a while. Pretty ominous if you ask me.

Ok, now back to the trial, where there are two important questions. First, is Amanda Knox guilty of murder? And second, what does it mean when a listener touches his or her face?
 
Is it? Are you talking about an American appeal where matters of law are usually the issue and not the findings of fact by the first trial?

Or are you talking about the Italian system where the appeals trial almost constitutes a new trial? And if you are talking about an Italian appeal could you give us some feel about other trials that you based your conclusion on? And how does the weakening of the prosecutor's case in this trial compare with the other cases your comment was based on?

The Italian, of course.
But the claim "the appeal is a new trial" is an exaggeration.
As we have seen in this case, very few witnesses from the frist trial were called in again. New experts were also allowed economically.
The defence in the appeal attacks the Motivations of the first trial. The prosecutor also, if he appeals.
They both aim at the evidence used in the Motivations or at the argument why the judge ignored or discounted some of it.
 
TGCOM writes that the defence plans to argue that the wound on Rudy's hand is a proof that he came in through the broken window.
http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronac...rudy-sarebbe-entrato-in-casa-per-rubare.shtml

Yes, but a bit of old news. This goes back to Reps198/199.

Rep.198 – Hair formation found between the lower cornice of the left window shutter having the broken glass, indicated in the evidence photographs with the letter “R”, (report of the evidence described carried out by the Gabinetto Provinciale of Forensic Police of Perugia) – page 172 A.F./239 R.;
Rep.199 – Sample of presumed blood substance taken of the portion of the wood of the window having the broken glass, indicated in the evidence photographs by the letter “S”,
(report of the evidence described carried out by the Gabinetto Provinciale of the Forensic Police of Perugia) – page 172 A.F./239 R.;
 
According to several tweets it looks like the prosecutor tried to refurbish Curatolo's testimony and failed miserably and contrary to C&V it is RS DNA on clasp. Let's Pretend seems to be the theme so far.
 
From La Nazione quoting prosecutor:

"Curatolo - Costagliola said - he saw with absolute certainty the defendants on November 1, 2007. It can not 'have seen them on 31,' cause from the other two were not together."

That is so sad it is funny.
 
TGCOM:
Costagliola (he is no longer the chief prosecutor of Perugia): Curatolo is reliable and saw the defendants on the evening of Nov 1, both the knife and the clasp DNA results are valid.
 
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TGCOM:
Giovanni Galati (the new chief prosecutor of Perugia) "fully supports" all the points raised by the prosecutors against the new expert report of C&V. It is baseless and lacks evidence.
 
It seems to be increasingly difficult to blame Mignini only.
Comodi was downplayed as "only an aid to Mignini".
But now two more prosecutors weigh in, and contrary to forecasts made here Costagliola did not jump ship.
 
From La Nazione quoting prosecutor:

Quote:
"Curatolo - Costagliola said - he saw with absolute certainty the defendants on November 1, 2007. It can not 'have seen them on 31,' cause from the other two were not together."


That is so sad it is funny.
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I noticed that nuanced logic too, Rose. Appointment of Costagliola as prosecutor may prove to be the best thing that has ever happened to the defense team. Will he next remind the court of Amanda's purchase of underpants?

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Costagliola: The questions related to genetics wil be detailed by Comodi. The prosecution re-requests a new expert opinion that was rejected earlier by the court.
 
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