Merged So there was melted steel

Since you will not provide a specific observation to "theorize about", I will. The "when" of the molten metal seen pouring in bulk from the corner of WTC2 was obviously pre-collapse, and most likely started melting at some point in the 56 minutes following the aircraft crash.

"Most likely"?

When the hell else would it have melted?

Numbers? Not at this time.

We know...10 years and 1580 "architects and engineers" later....truthers can't give us numbers :rolleyes:


That would require too much speculation. All I can say is that if certain locations of molten metal deep in the debris pile were well enough insulated, it is quite probable that thermitic activity could have ceased some time before the ruble pile at Ground Zero was finally cooled.

How does the insulation affect a thermitic reaction?
 
Molten metal deep in the debris pile is indicative of unaccountably high temperatures.
No, it's not. There are plenty of metals with melting points lower than the temperatures recorded. Steel is not one of them.

Were there raging, well-insulated, but somehow oxygen fed basement fires in WTC 1,2 & 7 to create molten metal and sustained heat over a period of months?
subway-13.jpg


Is it reasonable to presume that the fires burning high up in the WTC Twin Towers would somehow find themselves continuing to burn in the basement after each collapse?
Yes.

Why is it so wrong to ask these kinds of questions?
It's not. It's wrong to take your ignorance of the answers and conflate it with a government conspiracy.
 
A byproduct of the thermitic reaction with steel, is molten iron. In a confined and sufficiently well insulated location, the heat generated could also melt steel. Without the steel, the thermitic material has nothing to react with. Is that sufficiently clear?
Truther chemistry is fun.
 
You are creating a false argument.

Show me the source of your simplistic statement; "There were observations of molten steel, therefore inside job"

You're kidding, right? Go to any truther's profile here, click on search posts, and you'll find dozens....

Claims of an inside job are not based on simplistic statements such as yours, but glaring evidence of a failed, inadequate investigation into what happened on 9/11.

Inadequate? I knew what happened before the day was even over - what's taking you people so long?

Molten metal deep in the debris pile is indicative of unaccountably high temperatures.

Unaccountably high? According to whom?

Were there raging, well-insulated, but somehow oxygen fed basement fires in WTC 1,2 & 7 to create molten metal and sustained heat over a period of months?

Yep

Is it reasonable to presume that the fires burning high up in the WTC Twin Towers would somehow find themselves continuing to burn in the basement after each collapse?

Yes it's reasonable. And I'm sure due to the collapse, other items started burning. Some of these items are notable for their ability to burn for long periods.
 
Truther chemistry is fun.
You've just found out why I put him onto ignore. He has no understanding of the following chemical reaction.

2Fe2O3 (solid) + 2Al (solid) --> 2Fe (liquid) + 2Al2O3 (solid)

I guess this well known redox reaction, a classic thermite reaction, cannot produce liquid Fe unless a steel catalyst is used. Oh and that steel catalyst melts as well.

Truther Chemistry

 
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atavisms would you like to address the questions of this thread?

Why can't the pile produce such heat?

What do you think did produce the heat?
 
A byproduct of the thermitic reaction with steel, is molten iron. In a confined and sufficiently well insulated location, the heat generated could also melt steel. Without the steel, the thermitic material has nothing to react with. Is that sufficiently clear?

MM
facepalm01.jpg


Surely that is worth a Stundie! Really, how can someone be so clueless........
 
atavisms would you like to address the questions of this thread?

Why can't the pile produce such heat?

What do you think did produce the heat?

You know you go on and on about how the environment created a furnace like atmosphere. Why don't you show 1 just 1 example of a landfill fire building collapse..etc...(where there was known to be no agents hot enough to melt steel) that reached fires hot enough to do so. I've looked and looked, there's been thousands of fires/building collapses, and I haven't found one. So maybe you can do better than me. It's easy to say this is what would have happened much harder to give an example of it happening.

Also in regards to water, here's a picture of how wet things got there, and those fires survived it.
 

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You know you go on and on about how the environment created a furnace like atmosphere. Why don't you show 1 just 1 example of a landfill fire building collapse..etc...(where there was known to be no agents hot enough to melt steel) that reached fires hot enough to do so. I've looked and looked, there's been thousands of fires/building collapses, and I haven't found one. So maybe you can do better than me. It's easy to say this is what would have happened much harder to give an example of it happening.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but molten steel is a truther canard. Why are we trying to prove your argument for you?

Also in regards to water, here's a picture of how wet things got there, and those fires survived it.
Your picture of the street is much appreciated. What exactly is that supposed to prove?
 
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1100 people unaccounted for - how did that happen, in your opinion? Is this because explosions ripped everything apart, turned mostly everything into fine dust, caused all the material of the towers to tumble down in enormous turbulences, and thus dispersed human remains widely and beyond recognition?

Even though I may from time to time hypothesize [if only to share what may be the most likely scenario based on available evidence). ]I generally try to stick to the facts. Hypothesizing is unnecessary really, in light of such a multitude of different & damning facts stemming from different ources, that all point in the same direction.

The extremely rapid and explosive nature of the destruction of the Twin Towers are established beyond all doubt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5joqbu7gkM
Atavism, please, read the OP, read my recent responses: We do assume in this thread that there was molten steel. You don't need to prove it! Okay?? Stop it!

I will take a look..thanks. That said, what I write here is not for one person..even if I respond to something you wrote..You have the option to skip it instead of demanding silence because you believe it's redundant. For others, possibly looking at this material for the first time, it's important to separate fact from fiction and establish the actual issues at the center of 9-11 Truth. Especially in a forum so richly populated by people who dont know the difference. People who argue that ridiculous claims like No Planes or video fakery, etc, are part of 9-11 Truth when they most definitely are not. Or some who simply deny and ignore facts and make absurd claims like, 'wtc7's implosion was not symmetrical and did not look like an implosion."

You have not answered the OP yet at all.
As such features (molten metal, wtc7's implosion, 100 day fires, pulverized concrete, etc) have never EVER been seen without the use of explosives and in controlled demolitions,, the burden of proof clearly lies with anyone saying these were natural events not involving the use of explosives.

The heart of this thread is: Why is molten steel a sign for inside job? You must have a theory that explains how steel not only melted (yes, we know that thermite can melt steel, yaddayadda), but how thermite or molten steel that was in the towers before the collapses survived the collapses such that molten steel could still be observed a long time after the collapse. Why did these materials not disperse? Why did the thermite charges survive when 1100 human bodies were so terribly minced and dispersed that they never even found as much as a knuckle in one piece? Why did steel that melted before the liquid not disperse and cool to solidify of in a matter of minutes, if not seconds?

The 'materials' (building contents) did disperse, very widely and violently in every direction.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5joqbu7gkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSApOavkHg8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JnZbYXcbqw

"Why is molten steel a sign for inside job?" Because it, along with a host of other well documented features, could not be present without the use additional energetic materials. Materials which Islamic terrorists could have have had access to the buildings to install.

We see molten metal pouring from the South Tower just below the point where the building will, moments later, rip apart. It was documented in the FEMA BPAT Appendix C where again, we see the effects of structural steel that has been attacked by a 'high temperature corrosive' that left races of sulfur in the steel itself. They did cool, eventually. And some parts,, like the iron micropheres that are so prevalent in the dust (that RJ Lee established them as a 'signature' of WTC dust) were formed under conditions hot enough to melt steel.. and cooled and formed into spheres, as they flew through the air in every direction cooled much sooner than the smoldering pits that remained of the Twin Towers. The underground infernos that were so extremely hot were finally extinguished 100 days later. Same with how explosive their (wtc1&2) destruction was. The North Tower was hit between floors 92-96 -approx. How can we even imagine that gravity alone could account what happened to that building once it's explosive destruction sequence began? Almost 90% of teh North Tower remained intact below the crash zone and we are supposed to believe that gravity and office fires alone caused such astonishing and thorough levels of destruction and massive debris fields chock full of anomalies only explosives could account for.

They were so explosive that 200 dna tests came back matching a single individual. The streets were littered with body parts in every direction one looked. One victim was identified only by his femur which was located 2 blocks from the site. The smaller debris was carted off to Freshkills Landfill in Staten Island where it was systematically spread out on conveyor belts which then passed by lines with gloved attendants whose job it was to scour through it and locate any human remains they could find. Despite this operation having gone on for 2 years and the use of advanced dna recovery techniques (many victims were identified from test-tube sized fragments), no genetic trace has been found for approximately 1100 victims.

We do not (and cannot) know every detail of how these events were carried out to know with complete certainty that explosives must have been involved.

There are traces of hi-tech thermitic material in the dust. That does not means the "charges survived." The plane impact were local (and small compared to the overall size of the buildings) and asymmetrical. Perhaps more than one type of explosives was used. Maybe thermite was used to cut the columns and other explosives to blast them apart. The evidence clearly supports such a claim.

Why didnt the sites cool quicker
? is a good question but the fact that they didnt and that they were so hot for so long (and this just another in the long list of anomalous features that indicate the presence of additional energetic materials), is the critical issue here.
 
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Is it reasonable to presume that the fires burning high up in the WTC Twin Towers would somehow find themselves continuing to burn in the basement after each collapse?


Uhh... the buildings collapsed from top down, remember? That means at least some of the fire from the upper floors would have ended up on the ground first, with the rest of the building debris piling up on top of it.

ETA: Also, it doesn't seem unreasonable that the collapse itself set off other fires elsewhere in the building.
 
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Here's a fire at a recycling facility that my company responded to a couple months back:

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/cheektowaga/article470275.ece

Two metal buildings collapsed. Also:

article said:
The fire then began consuming the contents of the buildings, which included a mix of ordinary combustibles and metal recycling materials. The burning metal made the temperature of the fire increase dramatically. That's where the foam from the airport firefighters helped.
.....
Officials from the state Department of Environmental Conservation also responded to scene because of the materials being consumed by the blaze, believed to include aluminum, copper, brass, batteries and other metals.

I looked but didn't see any mention of thermite in the article...
 
You know you go on and on about how the environment created a furnace like atmosphere. Why don't you show 1 just 1 example of a landfill fire building collapse..etc...(where there was known to be no agents hot enough to melt steel) that reached fires hot enough to do so. I've looked and looked, there's been thousands of fires/building collapses, and I haven't found one. So maybe you can do better than me. It's easy to say this is what would have happened much harder to give an example of it happening.

Also in regards to water, here's a picture of how wet things got there, and those fires survived it.

Unfortunately 110 story buildings that collapse into giant bathtubs with subway tunnels underneath don't happen too often. That's why I offered the existence of furnaces as an example. In terms of their function they are much more closely matched.

And I find it funny that you demand all sorts of examples of this and have yet to provide any examples of a thermite demolition that produced the same alleged results.
 
And I find it funny that you demand all sorts of examples of this and have yet to provide any examples of a thermite demolition that produced the same alleged results.

I'm sure this will be coming any minute now...
 
Without the steel, the thermitic material has nothing to react with.

MM

This isn't just wrong, it's heroically wrong.

It couldn't be wronger.

It's the epitome of wrongness.

It has been bukakked with wrongitude.
 
A byproduct of the thermitic reaction with steel, is molten iron. In a confined and sufficiently well insulated location, the heat generated could also melt steel. Without the steel, the thermitic material has nothing to react with. Is that sufficiently clear?

MM

The highlited part is patently incorrect.

If you put an ice cube in a pot and the pot on a hot stove element is the resultant liquid water a 'byproduct' of the reaction of natural gas rapidly oxidizing in air?

Obviously no. The gas will burn with or without the pot and water being present.

Thermite will happily react away with or without the presence of steel, iron, or Grandma's underwear.

Steel in proximity to a thermite burn will melt as a result of having its temperature raised to the point where it transitions to liquid form.

The iron is NOT a fuel source, the thermite is the fuel and the oxidizer all by its lonesone.
I'd have thought that a person interested in 911 research would have glommed onto this years ago.
 
Unfortunately 110 story buildings that collapse into giant bathtubs with subway tunnels underneath don't happen too often. That's why I offered the existence of furnaces as an example. In terms of their function they are much more closely matched.

And I find it funny that you demand all sorts of examples of this and have yet to provide any examples of a thermite demolition that produced the same alleged results.

Fortunately there's been thousands of landfill fires and building collapses to compare to. But I haven't found any that got that hot. That should really be the end of the thread. There are other comparable situations thousands of them, but none I could find got that hot.

In regards to thermite, there was a tower taken down in 1934, using thermite, but you can't really compare the two for several reasons except to say thermite did indeed take it down. You see that's the problem, I ask you for an example, there is a large case history of similar situations. You ask me, there is essentially nothing to compare it to.
 

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