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Bachmann at the meat plant

JoeTheJuggler

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
27,766
From the CNN story:

Armed with a sharp knife, a protective smock and with 400-pound beef carcasses hanging around her, Michele Bachmann visited an Iowa meat plant on Tuesday and sliced through a slab while going for the kill over government regulations.
"One thing we learned today is that, in a company that has five or six employees, one employee is dedicated just to deal with government rules and government regulations," the Republican presidential candidate told employees and assembled media at the Amend Packing Co. in Des Moines.

Wait a second. Fact check anyone? Is there a company of 5 or 6 employees that needs one employee only for dealing with government rules and government regulations?

Oh for the days of "The Jungle"!
 
From the CNN story:



Wait a second. Fact check anyone? Is there a company of 5 or 6 employees that needs one employee only for dealing with government rules and government regulations?

Oh for the days of "The Jungle"!

Maybe she meant to say "dealing with not poisoning their customers" and she couldn't understand the difference? Also, why the hell did she pose for two awful photos around meat?

Who is running that damn campaign?
 
Maybe she meant to say "dealing with not poisoning their customers" and she couldn't understand the difference? Also, why the hell did she pose for two awful photos around meat?

Who is running that damn campaign?

Yes some regulations are necessary, I would expect a lot of them at a packing plant are
 
Yes some regulations are necessary, I would expect a lot of them at a packing plant are

I would agree. I'd go so far as to say that if you abolished 99% of all regulations, the ones people would most want to keep would deal with food safety and sewage disposal.

I mean, the alternative is just too disgusting to contemplate.
 
So is her claim at all realistic: a 5-6 employee company has one employee dedicated to government rules and regulations and nothing else? (Is this maybe a part time or temporary employee? Or is she adding up all the paperwork and adherence to safety practices of all the employees and figuring it totals the full time of one employee or some such?)

ETA: Or maybe she's averaging out the proportions by taking into account a small tax-preparation office, in which case nearly all the employees are dedicated to nothing but government rules and regulations!
 
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At one time, Bachmann held the distinction of being the only politician to have every reviewed statement rated "False" or "Pants on Fire" by Politifact.

Currently she stands at 28 false or mostly false, 4 true or mostly true, and 3 half true.
 
So is her claim at all realistic: a 5-6 employee company has one employee dedicated to government rules and regulations and nothing else?

For a food-processor, no.

Conforming with gov't regulations is a matter of setting up your system correctly, and making ad hoc corrections based on periodic inspections.

Processing the necessary paperwork would be handled by someone who is charged with other duties as well.
 
It's probably her getting her facts wrong:

"one employee is dedicated just to deal with government rules and government regulations"

Change that to:

"just one employee is dedicated just to deal with government rules and government regulations[, all other paperwork, and probably other duties as well]"
 
WB piggy, haven't seen you round for a while. :D

OT, how the heck has the political culture in the US gotten so... poisoned, is probably an apt word, that this kind of politician can be a contender?
 
OT, how the heck has the political culture in the US gotten so... poisoned, is probably an apt word, that this kind of politician can be a contender?

I find it more disturbing that things are this bad and the government is THIS dysfunctional while we're in a middle of a recession (while companies are making record profits), and yet there are no massive protests or massive reforms being forced on any of the political parties. I mean...just how bad does it have to get?
 
WB piggy, haven't seen you round for a while. :D

OT, how the heck has the political culture in the US gotten so... poisoned, is probably an apt word, that this kind of politician can be a contender?

I've been MIA for several months. RL is kicking my lilywhite butt.

As for the political culture, I'd tag the 3 main culprits as follows:
  • The 3-day DC work week
  • Cable television
  • Sarah Palin

The 3-day week has been cited repeatedly by DC old-timers as a cause of hyperpartisanship.

It used to be that federal pols moved their families to DC, and socialized with other politicians of all stripes. Their kids went to school together, they ran into each other around town, belonged to overlapping organizations, and so forth. So they saw each other as human beings with similar lives and concerns.

Now, they fly in on Monday, work Tuesday thru Thursday, then fly home on Friday. They don't mix socially, their families don't mingle. So they see each other purely as opponents.

As for TV, in the Cronkite / Big 3 era, the major networks were all covering the same stories, all going after one big market of viewers, pretty much with the same angles, just hoping to "scoop" each other by being there first, getting the choice interview, and so forth.

Around the water cooler or the playground bench, men and women may have had differing opinions on what to do about the news of the day, but they had a similar vision of what the events were.

That's not true anymore.

The rise of cable TV fragmented the viewer market to such an extent that it no longer made sense to play to the middle, and Fox's overt bid for right-wing viewership sent that trend into hyperdrive, so that other networks were forced to try to outcompete Fox for that demographic, or else go after a different niche.

Now, most viewers pick their news sources -- TV, radio, print, and Web -- based on their own bias, creating the "echo-chamber" effect we see today.

It's gotten so bad, in fact, that Fred Luntz (inventor of the "dial session" and architect of the "Contract with America") recently lamented that he can no longer use surveys to determine what language to use in political campaigns.

His former strategy was to produce multiple polls on the same subject, varying the wording of the questions to determine which phrasing caused people to choose the options he desired -- for example, "troop surge" vs. "military escalation" or "death tax" vs. "inheritance tax" -- and packaging the successful language into political talking points for his clients.

But just last year, I heard him say he's had to abandon the strategy, because he no longer has a homogenous population to poll. It's not just that people have different views about the facts, as they did in the Cronkite era... the various groups actually believe in different facts!

The final blow was McCain/Schmidt's decision to put Sarah Palin on the presidential ticket, based on the erroneous view that McCain should abandon the fight for the middle-ground voters and instead do what worked for Dubya and "energize the base". (In fact, the right-wing base was already maximally energized by Obama, a black Democrat from Chicago, and the election depended entirely on the independent vote.)

When that happened, and she was sent on her tour of torch-and-pitchfork rallies, and revealed her utter ineptitude in debate and in interviews, the middle-of-the-road Republicans fled the party en masse and left the remaining Republican pols in DC entirely dependent on the most radical fringe element of the party.

The confluence of these 3 factors has resulted in the completely dysfunctional system we see today.

Personally, I'm hoping that the advent of a direct primary bypassing the party system will tilt the scales and begin to restore order.
 
So is her claim at all realistic: a 5-6 employee company has one employee dedicated to government rules and regulations and nothing else? (Is this maybe a part time or temporary employee? Or is she adding up all the paperwork and adherence to safety practices of all the employees and figuring it totals the full time of one employee or some such?)

I can't speak to the truth or falsity of the statement, but it is quite clear that government regulation generally works to the benefit of big business as compared to smaller companies.
 
I've been MIA for several months. RL is kicking my lilywhite butt.

As for the political culture, I'd tag the 3 main culprits as follows:
  • The 3-day DC work week
  • Cable television
  • Sarah Palin

The 3-day week has been cited repeatedly by DC old-timers as a cause of hyperpartisanship.

It used to be that federal pols moved their families to DC, and socialized with other politicians of all stripes. Their kids went to school together, they ran into each other around town, belonged to overlapping organizations, and so forth. So they saw each other as human beings with similar lives and concerns.

Now, they fly in on Monday, work Tuesday thru Thursday, then fly home on Friday. They don't mix socially, their families don't mingle. So they see each other purely as opponents.

As for TV, in the Cronkite / Big 3 era, the major networks were all covering the same stories, all going after one big market of viewers, pretty much with the same angles, just hoping to "scoop" each other by being there first, getting the choice interview, and so forth.

Around the water cooler or the playground bench, men and women may have had differing opinions on what to do about the news of the day, but they had a similar vision of what the events were.

That's not true anymore.

The rise of cable TV fragmented the viewer market to such an extent that it no longer made sense to play to the middle, and Fox's overt bid for right-wing viewership sent that trend into hyperdrive, so that other networks were forced to try to outcompete Fox for that demographic, or else go after a different niche.

Now, most viewers pick their news sources -- TV, radio, print, and Web -- based on their own bias, creating the "echo-chamber" effect we see today.

It's gotten so bad, in fact, that Fred Luntz (inventor of the "dial session" and architect of the "Contract with America") recently lamented that he can no longer use surveys to determine what language to use in political campaigns.

His former strategy was to produce multiple polls on the same subject, varying the wording of the questions to determine which phrasing caused people to choose the options he desired -- for example, "troop surge" vs. "military escalation" or "death tax" vs. "inheritance tax" -- and packaging the successful language into political talking points for his clients.

But just last year, I heard him say he's had to abandon the strategy, because he no longer has a homogenous population to poll. It's not just that people have different views about the facts, as they did in the Cronkite era... the various groups actually believe in different facts!

The final blow was McCain/Schmidt's decision to put Sarah Palin on the presidential ticket, based on the erroneous view that McCain should abandon the fight for the middle-ground voters and instead do what worked for Dubya and "energize the base". (In fact, the right-wing base was already maximally energized by Obama, a black Democrat from Chicago, and the election depended entirely on the independent vote.)

When that happened, and she was sent on her tour of torch-and-pitchfork rallies, and revealed her utter ineptitude in debate and in interviews, the middle-of-the-road Republicans fled the party en masse and left the remaining Republican pols in DC entirely dependent on the most radical fringe element of the party.

The confluence of these 3 factors has resulted in the completely dysfunctional system we see today.

Personally, I'm hoping that the advent of a direct primary bypassing the party system will tilt the scales and begin to restore order.

Nominated. :)
 
I can't speak to the truth or falsity of the statement, but it is quite clear that government regulation generally works to the benefit of big business as compared to smaller companies.

I think you meant government corruption there. As far as regulation goes that's HIGHLY dependent on the regulation itself. Requiring, say, meats to be processed in a way that avoids containments and spoiling doesn't place any particular onus on small businesses.

I've been MIA for several months. RL is kicking my lilywhite butt.

As for the political culture, I'd tag the 3 main culprits as follows:
  • The 3-day DC work week
  • Cable television
  • Sarah Palin

The 3-day week has been cited repeatedly by DC old-timers as a cause of hyperpartisanship.

It used to be that federal pols moved their families to DC, and socialized with other politicians of all stripes. Their kids went to school together, they ran into each other around town, belonged to overlapping organizations, and so forth. So they saw each other as human beings with similar lives and concerns.

Now, they fly in on Monday, work Tuesday thru Thursday, then fly home on Friday. They don't mix socially, their families don't mingle. So they see each other purely as opponents.

As for TV, in the Cronkite / Big 3 era, the major networks were all covering the same stories, all going after one big market of viewers, pretty much with the same angles, just hoping to "scoop" each other by being there first, getting the choice interview, and so forth.

Around the water cooler or the playground bench, men and women may have had differing opinions on what to do about the news of the day, but they had a similar vision of what the events were.

That's not true anymore.

I hadn't considered this before. It makes a lot of sense. A lot of studies show getting people to work and live side by side does help people understand each other from what I recall. Generally speaking. Hmm, this actually seems like something somewhat fixable.


The rise of cable TV fragmented the viewer market to such an extent that it no longer made sense to play to the middle, and Fox's overt bid for right-wing viewership sent that trend into hyperdrive, so that other networks were forced to try to outcompete Fox for that demographic, or else go after a different niche.

I don't have any good ideas on how to fix this really. Anything better than heavy regulation and legislation and/or socializing the news media (as a literal fourth branch of government, independent from the other 3). The current system is definitely not working now.


Polarization of the political process by the Right I think isn't so much a third factor, as it is a strategy they seized on because it works given the above. If I had to name a third factor, I'd say the capture of government by big corporate interests. Seems to me one of the better ways to handle that is public funding of all election with a cap on private spending so that public funding plus private spending can't go over the public funding limit.
 
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Armed with a sharp knife, a protective smock and with 400-pound beef carcasses hanging around her, Michele Bachmann visited an Iowa meat plant on Tuesday and sliced through a slab while going for the kill over government regulations.

It wasn't "Farmer Vincent's" meat processing plant, was it?
 
I think you meant government corruption there. As far as regulation goes that's HIGHLY dependent on the regulation itself. Requiring, say, meats to be processed in a way that avoids containments and spoiling doesn't place any particular onus on small businesses.

Without wishing to put words in Piggy's mouth, I'm pretty sure that he/she meant to say regulation.

Large organisations typically already have administrative functions whose role it is to collect and distribute information and processes to demonstrate that this is taking place. A new regulation is a small incremental addition to this existing process where a regulation to a small business all of whose employees are fully engaged in the business itself can be a considerable imposition and strain.
 
I can't speak to the truth or falsity of the statement, but it is quite clear that government regulation generally works to the benefit of big business as compared to smaller companies.

It depends on the regulation, but small companies are exempt from much regulation that applies to large companies.

-Bri
 
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From the CNN story:



Wait a second. Fact check anyone? Is there a company of 5 or 6 employees that needs one employee only for dealing with government rules and government regulations?

Oh for the days of "The Jungle"!

I think there needs to be a secretary who does paperwork. W-4s, quarterly withholding, personnel records, etc, etc. Thing is that you could likely triple that workforce and the same (busier) secretary could cope with that, too.

I mean, is it a revelation that you need an office worker somewhere or the boss has to do the work himself after hours? And you'd need that person just for business correspondence and bookkeeping even if you had no government junk to do.
 

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