Could the very high rate of mental illness in Europe be related to religion decline?

[Foster Zygote]

In the best of sanity, it cannot be denied that there is only one God, one Faith, and one Religion. Think about it. Quoting a fluctuating source (as wiki is) only indicates that the variance is currently in favor of fragmented rather than wholistic thinking.

You might want to read up a bit on the subject of Biblical textual criticism. The Bible is famous as a fluctuating source.

 

[Elizabeth I]

He does allow you to test, too, through St. Thomas. How long do you need to hold your hand over the fire to know that it is hot?

Well, first I need a fire. Holding my hand over the empty ground gives me nothing but an eventual tired arm.

 

[joobz]

Well, first I need a fire. Holding my hand over the empty ground gives me nothing but an eventual tired arm.

The analogy Edward used is both flawed and a bit insulting.

1.) As you rightly point out, we don't even have evidence for the cause (e.g., god). Hence, the analogy to fire (something we know is there) is off.
2.) He claims that Thomas did the test for us, so we don't have to. This is completely different than us testing the hottness of fire for ourselves. It would be like expecting us to take someone else's word for it that fire is hot, which leads us to point 3.
3.) We expect children to listen to us and trust us that fire is hot. Yet, most will have to learn on their own this lesson. Here is the insulting part. the obvious subtext of Edward is that we are being like children for not taking his word for it. But we learn from experience not just that fire is hot, but that conmen exist. That people lie, that people deceive themselves and others. It is through this repeated lesson in history that I (And skeptics in general) do NOT take others' words for it. We must have evidence. Evidence that is readily verifiable and testable. without this, a story is a story is a story. From Moby Dick to Jurassic Park to the gospel of Luke.

 

[Craig4]

He does allow you to test, too, through St. Thomas. How long do you need to hold your hand over the fire to know that it is hot?

Fire is readily accessible. A supernatural being is somewhat less so.

 

[Mojo]

He does allow you to test, too, through St. Thomas.

You're right! Sonny Rollins is God!

 

[TimCallahan]

It would appear that DOC has left the building.

 

[Edward Palamar]

What you see is what you ? ? ?

Like shamans experiencing the spirit world, and stuff. They tested it for me.

You post a page of your favorite shaman manual, then maybe we can continue along those lines. There is not a single scientist who has performed every test of scientific theory alone. Now several here propose to change that precedent.

 

[joobz]

You post a page of your favorite shaman manual, then maybe we can continue along those lines. There is not a single scientist who has performed every test of scientific theory alone. Now several here propose to change that precedent.

I have never seen, nor do I know of anyone who has seen a person come back from the dead. Evidence is against you on this one, Edward. I recommend not invoking science.

 

[DOC]

Edge,
Do you agree with DOC's argument that strokes are a result of sin?

Actually I never said this -- another of joobz' many strawmen. I have to believe your doing this on purpose just to get a response, but in the process you are hurting your credibility and image.

But I do believe many (I do not know if all of them are) are caused by the sin of humanity. And that includes not just personal sin but the sin of society as well. A societal sin could be indifference to the poor, or lack of proper medical care by a society that could afford proper medical care for its people.

Also there is the sin of omission. For example everyone might say how great Bill Gates is to give a certain amount to charity. But if he for example gives 2 billion but could actually afford to give 10 billion then that is a sin of omission.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Actually I never said this -- another of joobz' many strawmen. I have to believe your doing this on purpose just to get a response, but in the process you are hurting your credibility and image.

But I do believe many (I do not know if all of them are) are caused by the sin of humanity. And that includes not just personal sin but the sin of society as well. A societal sin could be indifference to the poor, or lack of proper medical care by a society that could afford proper medical care for its people.

Also there is the sin of omission. For example everyone might say how great Bill Gates is to give a certain amount to charity. But if he for example gives 2 billion but could actually afford to give 10 billion then that is a sin of omission.

doc, you should give it up. Compared to other people now infesting this subforum *cough* novest *cough* you're a piker.

 

[Akhenaten]

Actually I never said this -- another of joobz' many strawmen. I have to believe your doing this on purpose just to get a response, but in the process you are hurting your credibility and image.

So then I assume you believe the sin of the Holocaust did not increase the amount of strokes or physical ailments among the millions of Jews who experienced it.

Surely it's reasonable to assume that your accusatory tone here indicates that you believe the opposite of the above to be true. ie, the sin of the Holocaust did increase the amount of strokes, etcetera.

But I do believe many (I do not know if all of them are) are caused by the sin of humanity. And that includes not just personal sin but the sin of society as well. A societal sin could be indifference to the poor, or lack of proper medical care by a society that could afford proper medical care for its people.

Sin is one of those magic words that can mean whatever you want it to, is it, DOC? You should take up ufology.

Also there is the sin of omission. For example everyone might say how great Bill Gates is to give a certain amount to charity. But if he for example gives 2 billion but could actually afford to give 10 billion then that is a sin of omission.

Drivel.

 

[Akhenaten]

I have to believe your doing this on purpose just to get a response, but in the process you are hurting your credibility and image.

 

[dafydd]

 

[Mojo]

Actually I never said this -- another of joobz' many strawmen. I have to believe your doing this on purpose just to get a response, but in the process you are hurting your credibility and image.

Here you go:

Personal and societal sin could be a contributing factor to the causing of physical disorders. For example if highly processed foods are a sin and eating highly processed foods all of your life contribute to stroke or depression, then sin was the ultimate cause of those physical diseases.

If overworking your employees is a sin. Then the physical strokes which might have been caused by that overwork is related to sin even though it is physical in nature.

 

[dafydd]

Actually I never said this --

Oh yes you did. Do you think that we all as dumb as the average believer?

 

[joobz]

-- another of joobz' many strawmen.

An unsubstantiated accusation.

But I do believe many (I do not know if all of them are) are caused by the sin of humanity.

"Sin of Humanity"?
Are you now saying that simply being Human is a sin? Isn't that the most bizarre idea.

So you are claiming strokes are caused by sin. That's what I said.

And that includes not just personal sin but the sin of society as well. A societal sin could be indifference to the poor, or lack of proper medical care by a society that could afford proper medical care for its people.

DOC, strokes have been around for thousands of years. If having poor medical care is a sin, than it's god's sin for not telling people about germ theory and modern medical practices.

Also there is the sin of omission. For example everyone might say how great Bill Gates is to give a certain amount to charity. But if he for example gives 2 billion but could actually afford to give 10 billion then that is a sin of omission.

this is oddly off topic nonsense. especially since you are one of the biggest culprits of this "sin of omission".

For instance, You have omitted providing actual evidence of me making strawmen arguments. For shame!!!!!

 

[catsmate]

Actually I never said this -- another of joobz' many strawmen. I have to believe your doing this on purpose just to get a response, but in the process you are hurting your credibility and image.

Outright lying, standard wooster tactic #3.
Denying what you've said previously when it's brought sup, standard wooster tactic #5.

 

[Leif Roar]

He does allow you to test, too, through St. Thomas. How long do you need to hold your hand over the fire to know that it is hot?

That's a horrible argument. Nobody above the age of six have to take it on faith that a fire is hot: they'll know fire is hot because they've had direct, physical experience of the fact in the past.

There's a reason why the proverb goes "A burnt child dreads fire" rather than "A child who has it on good authority from St. Thomas that fire is hot and will cause pain, dreads fire."

 

[dafydd]

Outright lying, standard wooster tactic #3.
Denying what you've said previously when it's brought sup, standard wooster tactic #5.

As a P.G. Wodehouse fan I take exception to the word wooster in this context.

 

[TimCallahan]

Actually I never said this -- another of joobz' many strawmen. I have to believe your doing this on purpose just to get a response, but in the process you are hurting your credibility and image.

Mojo (see post above) has already pointed out that you used strokes as an example of societal sin. Specifically, you cited overworking employees. Of course, that would actually apply to the U.S. more than Europe. Another contributing factor in strokes is age. Thus, the longer the average lifespan in any society, the higher the percentage of the population suffering from strokes.

But I do believe many (I do not know if all of them are) are caused by the sin of humanity. And that includes not just personal sin but the sin of society as well. A societal sin could be indifference to the poor, or lack of proper medical care by a society that could afford proper medical care for its people.
Also there is the sin of omission. For example everyone might say how great Bill Gates is to give a certain amount to charity. But if he for example gives 2 billion but could actually afford to give 10 billion then that is a sin of omission.

Concerning the hilited areas above: First, a general sin of humanity would seem to imply original sin, which, of course, should affect all of us equally.

As to societal sin, particularly the ones you cite, indifference to the poor and lack of medical care for its people; again, this fits the U.S. far more than Europe. It also fits the U.S. far more even than Canada. Perhaps this explains the U.S. mental illness rate that is over twice Canada's, even though the two countries have comparable rates of church attendance and comparable standards of living.

Also, as I noted - and you have yet to respond to this - once strokes and dementias are removed, the 38% of the European population suffering from mental illness drops down to about 27%, comparable to the rate of mental illness in the U. S. in an earlier study that also didn't include strokes and dementias.

Finally, do you really have any information on Bill Gates, or is this all hypothetical?