Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[pilot padron]

Skeptics united

We know it was at least a bit chilly upstairs because Amanda returned to the bathroom to dry off. If it was very cold, she would have wrapped herself in a towel or bathrobe before going into the bathroom in the first place.

Your "We know" is of course based on your rather 'heroic' assumption that Knox did in fact ever take that shower and blow dry her hair.

'Heroic' because even cursory glance at her head that morning after as well as the Investigating Detectives recorded statements about how she stank of sex and body odor that morning after just might allow your statement to become open to some..... skepticism

 

[Dan O.]

There was a serious draft. There was an open door and a broken window.

These are both in the old part of the cottage. The new extension with Amanda's room and the small bath are separated by a thick stone wall and the single door from the living room to the hall.

 

[JREF2010]

Your "We know" is of course based on your rather 'heroic' assumption that Knox did in fact ever take that shower and blow dry her hair.

'Heroic' because even cursory glance at her head as well as the Investigating Detectives recorded statements about how she stank of sex and body odor just might allow your statement to become open to some..... skepticism

But those who rely on the "stank" media statement are assuming it wasnt the police mans upper lip he mistakenly mis directed to someone else.

No one in the questura confirmed this.

very weak support evidence if it was really even documented.probably just more garbage media.

but even with this unsupported insinuation she was lying about the shower, the logic makes no sense someone would stage and clean-up a crime, then call the police and immediately take them to the bathroom to show the police miniscule little blood specs on cotton swabs.

but even my statement is delving into fictional guesswork of what a murder's logic would be, which is a "black hole" for ever proving one way or another.

 

[Teddy2007]

Your "We know" is of course based on your rather 'heroic' assumption that Knox did in fact ever take that shower and blow dry her hair.

'Heroic' because even cursory glance at her head as well as the Investigating Detectives recorded statements about how she stank of sex and body odor just might allow your statement to become open to some..... skepticism

There is nothing strange about taking a shower in 10C room temperature. Students do this all the time. I did it when I was a student. You guys are clutching at straws if you think 10C means she probably wouldn't have had a shower. It's just nonsense.

As for "stinking of sex". What a load of twaddle. What does sex smell like then? I've never smelled sex on a women that I'm aware of. As for body odour, you know I really don't have much faith in that detective's account. I can't ever remember a women I've stood close to, especially a 20 year old, smelling of body odour, showered or not, especially not in winter, and especially not when wearing probably quite a few layers of clothes given the weather.

 

[Katody Matrass]

There was a serious draft.

No. Filomena's room was closed.

There was an open door and a broken window.

Was the front door open? Or slightly ajar, or maybe just unlocked? If open - how do you know for how long?

Upon what basis do you assert this with such certainty?

Experience. I can leave my balcony door ajar for the night when it's 10 C outside and it definitely doesn't bring down my indoor temp to 10 C.

Keeping the door open during the course of the afternoon would actually tend to increase the indoor temperature, as the recorded outdoor maximum was 15ºC, as previously noted. Moreover, daily temperature minima are usually recorded around dawn, not midnight. Finally, the presence of several live human beings within the flat throughout that afternoon and evening would serve as a (small) heat source within the flat.

I disagree. Keeping two doors and a window open wide (now that causes a draft) for 24h cools the flat to 13 C, which is still more then outside. A door slightly open for a few hours won't work like that.

 

[Dan O.]

Your "We know" is of course based on your rather 'heroic' assumption that Knox did in fact ever take that shower and blow dry her hair.

'Heroic' because even cursory glance at her head that morning after as well as the Investigating Detectives recorded statements about how she stank of sex and body odor that morning after just might allow your statement to become open to some..... skepticism

Attack the argument not the arguer

Find contemporaneously recorded statements made prior to the time Amanda became a murder suspect.

 

[misteratunta]

It is absolutely beyond me that people are now arguing that it was too cold for her to have taken a shower. That is an absolutely preposterous argument. I grew up on the North Coast of Ireland and have showered in bathrooms which had icicles hanging from the INSIDE of the windows.

An absolutely, demonstrably garbage argument. The overriding implication for me is that anyone making it is probably a bit of a wuss if they would refuse to have a shower in a flat that was 10-13 degrees in temperature.

 

[christianahannah]

I will give you my understanding of the issue. Shortly after the murder a local paper faxed some information to Mignini's office to the effect that Raffaele called the cops after they had arrived. ... (Rest of paragraph deleted to save space.)

According to a reply from Frank on September 15, 2011, it was not a local paper which faxed this information to the prosecutor's office but rather the police themselves.

The local paper il Giornale dell'Umbria was the paper with journalists who located some of the "superwitnesses" for the prosecution (among other things) and some of the journalists also wrote a book about the crime.

http://online.giornaledellumbria.it/portal/Iniziative/Meredithillibro/tabid/79/Default.aspx

 

[Draca]

By the way, with regard to the Katie Crouch article, it's important to note that Crouch didn't either write or imply that Lumumba told her during their lunch together that he was beaten/abused by the Perugia police. She writes the following:

Quote:
Lumumba (whose uncle, he told me, was the real Patrice Lumumba, the great Congolese political leader slaughtered by the Belgians) wasn't sure exactly what I was doing asking him these questions. I wasn't either. But he didn't really care. What he wanted, like many wronged people, was for someone to listen to his story.

And what a story it was. Because of Knox's accusations, he was ripped away from his young son in the middle of the night, interrogated, beaten, and held in solitary confinement for 14 days. His business remained closed for four months, even after his name was cleared. And he definitely thought Knox and Sollecito were guilty.

"When put in front of a judge," he told me, "I pleaded with him. 'What was I doing here? I didn't do this!' And Knox? She said nothing. Why would she say nothing? She must have done it. She is a cold woman. She did it."

Katie Crouch was contacted to confirm her story and she advised that Patrick Lumumba told her the police "HIT him". She is indeed revealing what Patrick told her directly the police had done to him during their lunch. She said he used the word HIT and not beat though.

 

[christianahannah]

Katie Crouch was contacted to confirm her story and she advised that Patrick Lumumba told her the police "HIT him". She is indeed revealing what Patrick told her directly the police had done to him during their lunch. She said he used the word HIT and not beat though.

Do you know if he used the word "hit" as Amanda did or "hit" as in beaten? The word she uses in her article is beaten which takes on a more severe meaning (not that any use of hitting by officials would be pleasant).

 

[Draca]

Do you know if he used the word "hit" as Amanda did or "hit" as in beaten? The word she uses in her article is beaten which takes on a more severe meaning (not that any use of hitting by officials would be pleasant).

My understanding is Katie Crouch took his discription of being HIT to be closer to being beat up than Amanda's cuffing.

 

[bri1]

There is nothing strange about taking a shower in 10C room temperature. Students do this all the time. I did it when I was a student. You guys are clutching at straws if you think 10C means she probably wouldn't have had a shower. It's just nonsense.

As for "stinking of sex". What a load of twaddle. What does sex smell like then? I've never smelled sex on a women that I'm aware of. As for body odour, you know I really don't have much faith in that detective's account. I can't ever remember a women I've stood close to, especially a 20 year old, smelling of body odour, showered or not, especially not in winter, and especially not when wearing probably quite a few layers of clothes given the weather.

Agreed, re: temperature and shower. In my 3 years of University, I don't think I ever touched pre-existing heating settings (I don't think I knew how, and was happy to accept whatever temp the houses were at). Besides, with rubbish old central heating in European countries (especially in student housing, not maintained or updated regularly), you'd be lucky to heat up the house to any significant degree quickly enough for it to make a difference.

Regarding AK smelling of body odour- shock and profound emotion can often produce higher levels of sweat, so body odour would be entirely natural given the circumstances.

 

[codyjuneau]

Maybe he met her as she walked to the front door and asked her if he could use the bathroom, saying he had tried the guys downstairs but they weren't home. She let him in but wanted to wait for him to finish in the bathroom before settling in. She went into her bedroom so as not to appear to be "listening in," planning to give him a few minutes, then walk out into the living room to show him the door and lock it behind him. He makes it to her bedroom first and confronts her.

I am not terrible invested in this, it's just a possible answer to your question.

Another possible answer:

Meredith finds 'Appointment Rudy' waiting at the front door and lets him in. Meredith then goes downstairs to retrieve something for Rudy (or tend to the cat) while Rudy uses the upstairs toilet.

Meredith returns upstairs and goes to her bedroom. Rudy gets off the toilet without flushing (apparently he has done this before) and tries to come on to her etc.

In this scenario:
- Rudy knows the front door is locked from the inside and where the key is.
- Rudy knows Meredith has the downstairs key which means he could have used it to enter the downstairs suite after murdering her ... hence the unexplained disturbances in the downstairs apartment.

 

[Grinder]

Katie Crouch was contacted to confirm her story and she advised that Patrick Lumumba told her the police "HIT him". She is indeed revealing what Patrick told her directly the police had done to him during their lunch. She said he used the word HIT and not beat though.

Looks like a Calumnia lawsuit or two to me.

 

[Katody Matrass]

'Heroic' because even cursory glance at her head that morning after as well as the Investigating Detectives recorded statements about how she stank of sex and body odor that morning after just might allow your statement to become open to some..... skepticism

What's wrong with Amanda's hair? I've seen the photos and it looks clean and washed. I'm afraid cursory glances that you mention reveal only that the glancing eyes are very unfamiliar with woman's hair and/or extremely biased. BTW where's the blood that must have stained her hair during the murder and the clean up?

About that "Investigating Detective", don't you wonder why didn't he testify about such serious finding? I'm sure Massei wouldn't overlook such a strong proof that Amanda lied. Sorry, but it looks like you're just repeating obscene tabloid lies.

"Stank of sex" What does it even mean?
Do you argue that after a bloody, gruesome murder, Amanda spent the night on "sexy time" with Raffaele, then in the morning without bothering to wash her hair or taking a shower, she decided that now is the time to call the cops. Hmmm... I'm afraid you didn't convince me.

 

[Diocletus]

Your "We know" is of course based on your rather 'heroic' assumption that Knox did in fact ever take that shower and blow dry her hair.

'Heroic' because even cursory glance at her head that morning after as well as the Investigating Detectives recorded statements about how she stank of sex and body odor that morning after just might allow your statement to become open to some..... skepticism

"Recorded statements"? Ha ha. That's rich. Everyone knows they don't record stuff.

IMO, any man who makes a comment like that has a serious misogyny issue.

Said man's mother, who is probably also his landlord, should teach him some manners.


PS: Is this sex-sniffer the same guy as the bleach-sniffer? I'm sorry, but this is all just weird.

 

[Dan O.]

Another possible answer:

Meredith finds 'Appointment Rudy' waiting at the front door and lets him in. Meredith then goes downstairs to retrieve something for Rudy (or tend to the cat) while Rudy uses the upstairs toilet.

Meredith returns upstairs and goes to her bedroom. Rudy gets off the toilet without flushing (apparently he has done this before) and tries to come on to her etc.

In this scenario:
- Rudy knows the front door is locked from the inside and where the key is.
- Rudy knows Meredith has the downstairs key which means he could have used it to enter the downstairs suite after murdering her ... hence the unexplained disturbances in the downstairs apartment.

I've mentioned before that the disturbances downstairs could be Meredith starting to clean up the bed she shared after the cat got blood on the sheets. Meredith comes home, puts her bag in her room then goes around to the downstairs apartment to care for the cat leaving the front door open. Rudy waltzes in through the front door like he was some internet poster and makes himself at home, taking a swig of juice from the bottle in the fridge and then hitting the bathroom. In one of Rudy's statements he mentions being spooked by a noise from the apartment downstairs. If what he heard was Meredith closing the door, he would have about enough time to finish his paperwork and yank up his pants to rush out to meet Meredith coming in. This would lead to an instant confrontation.

 

[Grinder]

It has long been extremely irritating that every aspect of Amanda's life, in particular, her sex life has been more than fair game. Not only her life but the lives of anybody that took her side or didn't find her guilty from the beginning.

The possibility that Meredith would meet Rudy at the cottage must be thoroughly investigated. While the PGP argue that Rudy wasn't a drifter, wasn't a drug dealer, wasn't a second story man and wasn't known as a harasser when it's convenient for their bent, then argue that Meredith would never have anything to do with such a low life.

Up front I will clearly state again that I have no problem with any of the behaviors of any of the young women, (A quick aside, interestingly the PGP scream like anything if people refer to AK and RS as kids but never say anything about Meredith's BF being referred to as a boy from downstairs). Meredith was into having a good time. She had a history of drinking heavily at least once. She was having sex with the boy downstairs who was growing pot. She without that BF had been out until 4AM the night before.

Because someone will cross post this paraphrased I will again say nothing wrong with anything she did. Just because the English didn't see or know that Rudy had asked Meredith for a date doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Meredith was introduced to Rudy by one of the boys downstairs, maybe even her BF. Maybe Rudy came by just to talk or have a drink (the police spoiled her blood alcohol test as well) or a smoke.

To me a "date" with Meredith is so much more likely than a sex game (obviously forced on Meredith so not really a game) or any other scenario where the three got together within minutes of the kids being free for the evening and killing Meredith in just a couple more minutes.

Now Rudy could have just smashed a window using his favorite technique and been caught by Meredith while he stealing her money.

I even believe Rudy's story over Mignini's version.

 

[Fuji]

No. Filomena's room was closed.

Not according to Sollecito (who also said that Knox related to him that the front door was "wide open", not "slightly ajar").

Was the front door open? Or slightly ajar, or maybe just unlocked? If open - how do you know for how long?

See above. As for how long the door was open, presumably between the time when the murderer(s) left and Knox arrived - several hours at least.

 

[Fuji]

There is nothing strange about taking a shower in 10C room temperature. Students do this all the time. I did it when I was a student. You guys are clutching at straws if you think 10C means she probably wouldn't have had a shower. It's just nonsense.

I think there is something strange about it when, at your boyfriend's apartment, to which you are planning to return momentarily anyway, there is a shower in an enclosed, heated space, which you already used only a few hours previously.