Being transgender is hard

Ok, good point but I've yet to see it scientifically proven as a cause for transsexualism.
Have you looked? :)
Anyway, seeing a different brain structure in men and women and corresponding body/brain disparities in transgenders might not be prof, but it looks like a good indicator. And something worth continuing studying.
Well I'm not claiming they did, I'm claiming they might, something these studies didn't seem to address.
Perhaps because changes in brain structure in adults is so far out that nobody bothered with looking for it?
 
Many of the people in this thread do not understand what being transgendered is all about. Because they are so attached to their penises it seems to them that there must be something seriously wrong with someone who doesn't want to have one.

Now you are really coming off as being very foolish. You accused me of being one of those "not understanding" but hey, I don't have a penis, don't want a penis....something you would have known if you actually bothered to read the posts in this thread rather than just telling them they are wrong because they don't agree with you.
 
Why do you believe this? Do you have any data or is this just something you 'know'?

I'm not interested in what you think that you 'know' without reasons.

Are you serious? You can't be serious. You think I'm just "guessing" that post of transgendered people report being happier in their post op bodies.

Wow.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-5557.html/


I know I'm being repetitive and I know I have done quite of bit of investigating into the topic, but some of the statements you guys are making are soooooooo uninformed it literally just boggles the mind. I guess I'm shocked because in general people on JREF tend to be more intelligent.


Let me ask you, why do you think the prescribed treatment for the transgendered is to change to the target gender? Why is that recommendation made by doctors if that is not helping?
 
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Now you are really coming off as being very foolish. You accused me of being one of those "not understanding" but hey, I don't have a penis, don't want a penis....something you would have known if you actually bothered to read the posts in this thread rather than just telling them they are wrong because they don't agree with you.

I was obviously joking.

And know you are really completely uninformed on this topic as are many other people in this thread. I suppose I'm coming on strong because I cannot believe how uninformed people are about a topic they have so much to say about.
 
Have you looked? :)
Anyway, seeing a different brain structure in men and women and corresponding body/brain disparities in transgenders might not be prof, but it looks like a good indicator. And something worth continuing studying.

Oh I agree. I just don't think the scientific technology is there yet.

Perhaps because changes in brain structure in adults is so far out that nobody bothered with looking for it?

Indeed. The study of adult brains vs. the study of infant brains is good area to begin.
 
Within four posts, truethat first criticizes actually getting one's definitions from a dictionary, and then goes and does the same thing herself. Awesome!

Except I actually understood what mine meant. You did not. Which is why I was critical of it.


Once again since you keep ignoring the question:

Please explain to me what the psychology of animals is like, also what the culture of animals is like.


Thanks.
 
And know you are really completely uninformed on this topic as are many other people in this thread.

Yeah, we get it. Unless they agree with you everyone else is uninformed, wrong or just doesn't understand. Poor form for a skeptic's forum.
 
You're quite the bore with your constant "you don't understand it!" crap. People understand things differently than you do. You are not the trans awareness thought police. You should either deal with people politely or start you're own thread: You're wrong if you don't agree with me.

I haven't really said anything that needs to be agreed with.


I just think that the level of ignorance on here is baffling. Understanding things "differently" is a joke. If it's WRONG it's not that you "understand it differently" it's that "you don't understand it."

LMAO
 
I've asked for references on the accuracy of diagnoses, to the point where medication of pre-pubescents is obviously warranted. For more information, see my (so far ignored) previous post. I haven't seen any. Instead, I've seen the following:

1) You're a bigot.
2) You're ignorant.
3) You're intolerant.
4) There are thousands of studies, easily found by a casual Google search.

Well, someone on this thread said that one of the "struggles" of the parents is to find a doctor to perform this procedure. Except for one endriconologist (sp?), all other doctors refused. Which is as close as possible to total refusal as one can expect in the medical community (there's always someone who will perform any operation or therapy on anyone).

Does that tell us something about what the medical community thinks? Of course not, silly! It just shows the doctors are evil bigoted, except for that one understanding and caring one who has no problem performing sex-change therapy on a ten-year-old. Medical opinion matters, except when it is against one's views, in which case it's just a sign of evil bigotry.

P.S.

Another thread in this forum declared it is high time we should ban smoking. So, to sum up, sex-change therapy for pre-teens -- good; lighting up -- bad.
 
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Except I actually understood what mine meant. You did not. Which is why I was critical of it.


Once again since you keep ignoring the question:

Please explain to me what the psychology of animals is like, also what the culture of animals is like.


Thanks.

Why should I answer that when you won't answer a very direct, yes-or-no question from me?

And you are actually claiming that I do not understand the following?

the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

You feel there is some nuance there that I am missing?

Or, let me guess, just like everyone else is saying...you just know you're right and I'm wrong!
 
You think I'm just "guessing" that post of transgendered people report being happier in their post op bodies.

Wow.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-5557.html/
I have seen several such studies and I have explained in this thread why I have a problem with them. According to the article, they have "studied the experiences of 222 gender reassignment patients". However, "The report highlighted that of the 70 follow-up studies:".

Wait a minute. So they had 222 patients.. but only 70 were followed up. What happened to the other 152? Maybe they all committed suicide because they were so unhappy? No obviously I don't think so, but we don't know. If you could find the actual study instead of this popular article, which is always garbling the data, maybe we could see better what is going on.

But based on my experience, and believe it or not I have looked at quite a few of these studies, it seems not atypical at all that the researchers may only get a 32% response rate and be happy about that. But that seriously undermines any conclusions. It is very reasonable to expect that people who were happy with the results would be more eager to fill in surveys.

Moreover, as I've explained before it's not very useful to ask people if they are happy with the results after the operation has been done. This is because we have a serious 'sunk cost' situation. These people have put a lot at stake because these operations are typically not reversible. So we would expect them to say and believe that they are happy with the results, even if their life conditions have not in fact improved.

This would be circumvented if patients were given identical surveys before and after the procedure that measured their subjective quality of life, rather than asking them about their attitude towards the operation. Of course it is 'possible' that someone might exaggerate their life quality afterwards, if they are strongly convinced that the procedure 'should' have made them happy. But such studies have been carefully developed to produce reliable results, and over time I find it very unlikely that any such effect would be very significant.
 
I just think that the level of ignorance on here is baffling. Understanding things "differently" is a joke. If it's WRONG it's not that you "understand it differently" it's that "you don't understand it."

You keep saying that rather than engaging in conversation. Topics folks have been talking about in this thread and your responses.

1. How can a MtF trans person know they are a woman when they have never experienced being a woman? you don't understand it.

2. What does it mean to be a woman? Is it within the brain? the mind? the body? a combination? Even this I can't answer and I'm a woman but of course, according to you....you don't understand it.

3. When a child shows gender behavior opposite to their sex how can it be determined that it's just their personality/a stage vs. being transgendered? you don't understand it.
 
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Well, someone on this thread said that one of the "struggles" of the parents is to find a doctor to perform this procedure. Except for one endriconologist (sp?), all other doctors refused. Which is as close as possible to total refusal as one can expect in the medical community (there's always someone who will perform any operation or therapy on anyone).

Does that tell us something about what the medical community thinks? Of course not, silly! It just shows the doctors are evil bigoted, except for that one understanding and caring one who has no problem performing sex-change therapy on a ten-year-old. Medical opinion matters, except when it is against one's views, in which case it's just a sign of evil bigotry.

I hate to burst you bubble. :rolleyes:
You read it the wrong way around, all but one were willing the treat the girl, and it was around age 12 not 10. (Do you understand the practical differences in treating before or after puberty?)
 
Well, someone on this thread said that one of the "struggles" of the parents is to find a doctor to perform this procedure.

You said that procedure was surgery. Again please link to anyone on this thread or a link from this thread that advocated sex reassignment surgery on a 10-year old. Sorry I'm not buying your backtracking and trying to now change surgery for therapy. You were wrong, just accept it, be an adult and admit it.
 
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You keep saying that rather than engaging in conversation. Topics folks have been talking about in this thread and your responses.

1. How can a MtF trans person know they are a woman when they have never experienced being a woman? you don't understand it.


Exactly. You don't understand.

2. What does it mean to be a woman? Is it within the brain? the mind? the body? a combination? Even this I can't answer and I'm a woman but of course, according to you....you don't understand it.

Gender is in the brain, sexuality is between the legs. And yes again You don't understand.

3. When a child shows gender behavior opposite to their sex how can it be determined that it's just their personality/a stage vs. being transgendered? you don't understand it.


Because it doesn't go away. This is one of the criteria for Gender Identity Disorder. And again you apparently don't understand.



In addition to telling you guys that you don't understand I have suggested that you do some RESEARCH which apparently you think is the same thing as asking questions. Your level of ignorance is so deep that I don't even know where to begin, so I'd suggest that you start with the basics. Because it is very obvious that you don't understand this issue at all.

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/genderiddis.htm


http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Sex and GID Lit Reviews/GID/ZUCKERDSM.pdf




Various descriptors in the criteria (‘‘strongly,’’ ‘‘persistent/
persistently,’’ ‘‘insistence,’’ ‘‘preoccupation,’’ and ‘‘compelling
desire’’) were all presumably used to differentiate children with
potential gender identity problems from children who might, on
a transitory or infrequent basis, verbalize a desire to be of the
other sex or engage in cross-gender behavior (B2 for boys) (see,
e.g., Linday, 1994). This point was also emphasized in the text
portion of the DSM-III (American Psychiatric Association,
1980, pp. 264–265). Because the criteria for girls required the
presence of ‘‘anatomic dysphoria’’ (Criterion B), but the criteria
for boys did not (Criterion B2 was sufficient for this criterion), it
could be argued that the criteria for girls were more conservative
than they were for boys (for a historical documentation of this
point using unpublished archival material, see Bryant, 2007).
 
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Well, someone on this thread said that one of the "struggles" of the parents is to find a doctor to perform this procedure. Except for one endriconologist (sp?), all other doctors refused.

No, that's not what the OP said. It said that "all but one endocrinologist is willing to treat her child" - that means they are all willing, except one. The opposite of what you said.
 
Why should I answer that when you won't answer a very direct, yes-or-no question from me?

And you are actually claiming that I do not understand the following?



You feel there is some nuance there that I am missing?

Or, let me guess, just like everyone else is saying...you just know you're right and I'm wrong!

That is what gender means. The premise you were making was that it was acceptable to discuss "animal gender issues"

So please explain to me what animal psychology and animal culture is. Thanks.

This might be helpful


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender
 
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You said that procedure was surgery. Again please link to anyone on this thread or a link from this thread that advocated sex reassignment surgery on a 10-year old. Sorry I'm not buying your backtracking and trying to now change surgery for therapy. You were wrong, just accept it, be an adult and admit it.

this

transitioning usually means dressing and presenting to the world as the gender you self identify as. It doesn't have anything to do with hormones or surgery.


In fact many transgenders don't even care about the surgery, it's having to dress as man or a woman when you self identify as the opposite that is a problem.

I think that might be a topic for a different thread.


I agree, the topic came up when the poster insisted on comparing transgender issues to animal sexuality. I asked that it not be examined that way as I felt it was derogatory and irrelevant. Which it is.
 
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