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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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Forgive me folks but I'm very confused now. Even if ufology meant 4608ft above sea level, not 4608ft relative to his location at 3000ft (which would put the object moving through an alleged vertical distance of 1608ft), it still doesn't tally with what we've been told elsewhere.

In this post:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7403520#post7403520

ufology wrote "The object rose about 300 feet before accellerating, and it went north and gained altitude as it went,".

300ft is nowhere near 4608ft, not even near 1608ft.

On his website, he says "ascended straight up to about 200 meters, stopped instantly for about two seconds, then traced a graceful infinity symbol about 200 meters wide at a 30 degree angle to the right ( south ) of its starting point".

200m = 656ft. More than double the 300 feet in ufology's earlier post.

We've been here before, haven't we? :confused:
 
23_Tauri said:
Forgive me folks but I'm very confused now. Even if ufology meant 4608ft above sea level, not 4608ft relative to his location at 3000ft (which would put the object moving through an alleged vertical distance of 1608ft), it still doesn't tally with what we've been told elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Yeah, pretty much what he's been denying ever since he made the errors and started embellishing the story to give it some gravitas.
In this post:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7403520#post7403520

ufology wrote "The object rose about 300 feet before accellerating, and it went north and gained altitude as it went,".

300ft is nowhere near 4608ft, not even near 1608ft.

On his website, he says "ascended straight up to about 200 meters, stopped instantly for about two seconds, then traced a graceful infinity symbol about 200 meters wide at a 30 degree angle to the right ( south ) of its starting point".

200m = 656ft. More than double the 300 feet in ufology's earlier post.

We've been here before, haven't we? :confused:
Click to expand...
Yep. Apparently it all can be explained by errors in conversion to/from metric, since ufology's memory is infallible.
 
Well, we also need to keep in mind that ufology claims to have seen the object twice, and the altitude and movement of the UFO flying alien craft were different each time.

Yes, I know there are still inconsistencies, but the two supposed sightings help explain some of them.
 
Considering that all of this revolves around a memory decades old, I would not put much weight in any of these estimates. As best I can tell, it wasn't written down at the time and he is remembering what he wants to remember. Details are alterred to fit the story. This is a well known part of story telling.
I want to think he saw a bright fireball but since his date (which we don't have and may be highly inaccurate as to year or month) goes back too far and his location is remote, it seems unlikely that I can find a report to match it. As a result, it can only remain "unidentified" with the potential answer being locked away in UFOlogy's brain some place.
 
Resume said:
I'm not claiming your story is fake, but that your memory and perceptions are flawed and unreliable. Countless links have been posted as to the fallibility of memory and perception but you choose to ignore them.
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I'm not ignoring anything. I don't claim to have a photographic memory. But the essentials of my sighting as stated are accurate. We're now working on details to extrapolate with more precision the heights and distances involved.

I see a genuine effort being made here to understand the specifics of what I saw. Perhaps it will reveal something I hadn't considered before. It takes time to do diagrams and such. Should I be appreciative of this effort or just consider it as the skeptics looking for an opening to stick the knife in again? No. Should I? You tell me.

I would prefer to think that we are all good people exploring our beliefs and experiences using our own way of doing things. If this excercise works out, it will make a very positive review and I will be sure to mention the help provided by the people here when I update my website. I can think of a no more positive step, so let's see how it goes. I'll make an effort to try some of the suggestions and post something up soon.
 
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Astrophotographer said:
Considering that all of this revolves around a memory decades old, I would not put much weight in any of these estimates. As best I can tell, it wasn't written down at the time and he is remembering what he wants to remember. Details are alterred to fit the story. This is a well known part of story telling.
I want to think he saw a bright fireball but since his date (which we don't have and may be highly inaccurate as to year or month) goes back too far and his location is remote, it seems unlikely that I can find a report to match it. As a result, it can only remain "unidentified" with the potential answer being locked away in UFOlogy's brain some place.
Click to expand...


The fireball I saw and the UFO were two separate events. I'm sure I've run across the fireball event on the net elsewhere and that I've seen the film. Some other people saw what seems to be the same meteor down in the USA and filmed it. This was in the summer of 1972, and when I do a search I get some results for "1972 fireball". That is most likely what I ( we ) saw. The whole freaking beach saw it ( except my friend Trevor ) and that's a funny story.
 
23_Tauri said:
Forgive me folks but I'm very confused now. Even if ufology meant 4608ft above sea level, not 4608ft relative to his location at 3000ft (which would put the object moving through an alleged vertical distance of 1608ft), it still doesn't tally with what we've been told elsewhere.
Click to expand...


We're trying to nail that down now. It doesn't change what I saw. I'll have something soon. Working on it now for you. I'm trying to figure out how to use the Google 3D view.
 
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ufology said:
We're trying to nail that down now.
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We? WE??!! :confused: Who's that, you and the white rabbit?

ufology said:
It doesn't change what I saw. I'll have something soon. Working on it now for you. I'm trying to figure out how to use the Google 3D view.
Click to expand...
What you saw and what you think you saw are two completely different things. Did you watch the video sideoxlyon posted about anecdotal evidence?

But you were sure enough that it was "about 200 meters" that you wrote that on your website, Ufology Society International, Mr J Randall Murphy. Are you now telling me that that figure wasn't accurate, that you had worked it out just through guesswork? Anything else on your website that is widely inaccurate? Because now this clanger has been exposed it puts into doubt the veracity of everything you've written about your personal experiences on your website, Ufology Society International.

I just don't buy it. You saw something that you thought was strange at the time. Since then you've back engineered details in order to shore up your blind faith belief that it was "OMG aliens!" :jaw-dropp even though you have no robust nor verifiable data on which to base those back engineered details.

But what does it matter? You've already told us that there is nothing anyone can say to convince you that what you saw wasn't some kind of alien craft. :rolleyes:
 
Illustration

Here is an illustration:

AN-01.png


The illustration is based on the Google Earth 3D view
and is fairly close. I had to crop a lot to keep the size
down. Distance to LZ about 3Km. As you can see,
there is no way the object could be a firefly. It took
off north at about that altitude. It was out of sight in
about 1 second.

The glowing bluish white light is about to scale. The
object giving of the glow I estimated from the night
landing to be about the size of a car.
 
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ok ufology, that's good. You know why it's good? Because you're not suggesting that you know what the various distances are (you from the object, the object from the ground, the diameter of the object) in metres, feet or furlongs. You are showing a graphic illustration of how you perceived the various objects in relation to each other at the time from where you were standing. You aren't pretending to know anything that you don't know.

This is better. Thank you. :)
 
23_Tauri said:
ok ufology, that's good. You know why it's good? Because you're not suggesting that you know what the various distances are (you from the object, the object from the ground, the diameter of the object) in metres, feet or furlongs. You are showing a graphic illustration of how you perceived the various objects in relation to each other at the time from where you were standing. You aren't pretending to know anything that you don't know.

This is better. Thank you. :)
Click to expand...


I used a map of to establish the approximate distance. As you can see, it wouldn't be hard to measure from the point of observation to the landing zone.
 
ufology said:
I used a map of to establish the approximate distance. As you can see, it wouldn't be hard to measure from the point of observation to the landing zone.
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Good stuff. :) Now, can you tell me again (sorry, I know you've said this before but it's a long thread to dig through) how you estimated the position of the landing zone (LZ). What objects were there in front of the UFO as it went down out of view into the LZ? How did you extrapolate how far away you and the UFO were from these landscape features?

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but it's really important that we understand how you came to estimate the distance between you and the UFO as being 3km.

Thank you once again. :)
 
23_Tauri said:
Good stuff. :) Now, can you tell me again (sorry, I know you've said this before but it's a long thread to dig through) how you estimated the position of the landing zone (LZ). What objects were there in front of the UFO as it went down out of view into the LZ? How did you extrapolate how far away you and the UFO were from these landscape features?

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but it's really important that we understand how you came to estimate the distance between you and the UFO as being 3km.

Thank you once again. :)
Click to expand...


There are several factors.

  • When the object first appeared, its glow could be seen rising up from behind the mountain. Therefore if the object was behind the mountain when it first appeared, it had to be at least as far away as the mountain. The mountain is over 3Km away.
  • When the object landed at night it lit up the tree tops and then descended into the forest.
  • You could see the light filtering out from behind the trees as it landed, not unlike the way you can see a car travelling at night along a highway bordered by trees. The trunks and branches obscure, but don't completely block the light ... so you can tell the car must therefore be behind the trees.
  • There were no other trees obscuring the view between me and where it went down other than on the other side of the lake.
  • Where it landed was higher in elevation than the highway, indicating it had landed east of the highway ( the rising side ).
  • The highway is of known distance from my observing point.
  • In the morning I could make out much more of the landscape and I watched the object light up and ascend out of the forest from where it had landed. It was visually obvious.
  • I measured that distance using a map.
 
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23_Tauri said:
...you're not suggesting that you know what the various distances are (you from the object, the object from the ground, the diameter of the object) in metres, feet or furlongs.
Click to expand...

Guess you must have missed where he posted "about the size of a car".
 
ufology said:
The fireball I saw and the UFO were two separate events. I'm sure I've run across the fireball event on the net elsewhere and that I've seen the film. Some other people saw what seems to be the same meteor down in the USA and filmed it. This was in the summer of 1972, and when I do a search I get some results for "1972 fireball". That is most likely what I ( we ) saw. The whole freaking beach saw it ( except my friend Trevor ) and that's a funny story.
Click to expand...

I am not discussing the great daylight fireball of 1972. I am of the belief that part of your "sighting" involved a bright fireball that was seen at night. The illumnation of the trees and description sound like a -8 to -12 fireball. Since you don't have a date/time, we are left grasping at straws. Finding records of fireballs seen in that area in 1975 (at least that is what I thought you said) is going to be unlikely because of the lack of observers who will report such events.
 
ufology said:
There are several factors.

  • When the object landed at night it lit up the tree tops and then descended into the forest.
  • You could see the light filtering out from behind the trees as it landed, not unlike the way you can see a car travelling at night along a highway bordered by trees. The trunks and branches obscure, but don't completely block the light ... you can tell the car must therefore be behind the trees.
  • There were no other trees obscuring the view between me and where it went down other than on the other side of the lake.
  • Where it landed was higher in elevation than the highway, indicating it had landed east of the highway ( the rising side ).
  • The highway is of known distance from my observing point.
  • In the morning I could make out much more of the landscape and I watched the object light up and ascend out of the forest from where it had landed. It was visually obvious.
  • I measured that distance using a map.
Click to expand...

Why again did you not investigate immediately?
 
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