Could the very high rate of mental illness in Europe be related to religion decline?

[edge]

The bottom line in determining the ratio from the text of the Gospel can be seen easiest in this, of Christ's own words : "Worry not".

Yep!
Worry comes from where?

 

[Sun Countess]

In yellow above:
Replace the word sin with bad life choices or lifestyle.

According to whom? My lifestyle is a pretty boring one, frankly, and it may be a very bad choice for someone else. Somebody else's lifestyle choices may be bad for me. I don't drink or smoke, but I also mix my fabrics and eat pork. According to your god's rules, the drinking and smoking would actually be okay, and I'm "sinning" because of the fabrics and dietary choices. "Sin" is a completely made-up concept, and every person has different ideas of what constitutes a bad life choice or lifestyle.

Do you believe that people making different lifestyle choices than the ones laid out by your particular god are in any way responsible for all the ills of the world, from the earthquakes and hurricanes, to the rates of insomnia and dementia?

In answer to what's in bold:
Being an observer and trying to follow a good lifestyle is not being judgmental, it's learning from others bad choices, whether you follow biblical principalities that are in agreement with science or not or one or the other, right is right and wrong is wrong, there is no middle ground that is absolutely correct, there are causes and effects to some degree.

It is being judgmental. Because you're saying that some choices are good and others are bad. I personally don't like tattoos. If other people want them, that's fine by me. If I'm tsk-tsking people who get tattoos then I'm being judgmental for no reason whatsoever, and I've now put myself out as a worse "sinner" than the people I'm judging. Why do I care if somebody else decides to get a tattoo or forgo eating meat? Why do you care if somebody else believes in the same mythology that you do? I don't need others to fit my mold, and I don't want to be pushed into somebody else's. Yet, religion is all about trying to shove everybody into the same mold, and then shaming and judging people who are "different" and then pinning the ills of the world or their own lives onto their lifestyle. There is no god out there punishing "bad" people with insomnia and strokes, or punishing entire cities with hurricanes and tornadoes.

 

[laca]

About two seconds, so why ask?

Because it's a useless tautology, so it's not even worth mentioning.

 

[TimCallahan]

The article in question can be found here, by the way.

Thanks. Here's a relevant excerpt from the article:

It is estimated that each year 38.2% of the EU population suffers from a mental disorder. Adjusted for age and comorbidity, this corresponds to 164.8 million persons affected. Compared to 2005 (27.4%) this higher estimate is entirely due to the inclusion of 14 new disorders also covering childhood/adolescence as well as the elderly. The estimated higher number of persons affected (2011: 165 m vs. 2005: 82 m) is due to coverage of childhood and old age populations, new disorders and of new EU membership states. The most frequent disorders are anxiety disorders (14.0%), insomnia (7.0%), major depression (6.9%), somatoform (6.3%), alcohol and drug dependence (N4%), ADHD (5%) in the young, and dementia (1–30%, depending on age).

Taking from this excerpt the following rates . . .

Anxiety 14%
insomnia 7%
Depression 7%
substance abuse 4%

. . . we get 32%.

I've excluded somatoform (6.3%), ADHD (5%) and dementia (1–30%, depending on age). There's a discrepancy here, in that adding the somatoform (strokes, etc.) and ADHD rates of, respectively, 6.3% and 5%, i get 11.3%. Subtracting 11% from European study, gives us a rate of 27%, which equals the WEBMD's report on the 2005 study of mental illness (anxiety, depression, eating disorders and substance abuse) in the U.S.

While there's a problem comparing a study from 2005 with one from 2011, I still submit, DOC, that you've failed to prove your point.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Worry not for the morrow, the morrow will have worry of its own.

Yep!
Worry comes from where?

At this point in time, worry can be seen coming from being disobedient to Christ, Who has directly given us a command not to worry. The more that the commandment not to worry is disobeyed, the more mental illness.

It is easily seen then, that there is a direct relation to secularism (as an opposition to the one religion) and the rise of mental problems.

 

[Twiler]

At this point in time, worry can be seen coming from being disobedient to Christ, Who has directly given us a command not to worry. The more that the commandment not to worry is disobeyed, the more mental illness.

It is easily seen then, that there is a direct relation to secularism (as an opposition to the one religion) and the rise of mental problems.

Unless being told not to worry causes further worry, in which case issuing that order causes people to disobey it, in which case there is a direct relation between mental problems and this one religion of many religions.

 

[six7s]

Thou shall not read this post

 

[Elizabeth I]

Replace the word sin with bad life choices or lifestyle.

"Sin" does not equal "unfortunate choice" or "unhealthy lifestyle".

 

[truethat]

If you mean that events which in the past would have been labeled religious experiences are now being labeled mental disorders, then I could see that as a possibility. But do you have any evidence to suggest this is actually what is happening?

This is actually what I was thinking as well. Religious beliefs are mental illnesses to me. So for example if you believe that God is helping you out all the time and miracles are happening, that is a state of euphoria that can also be part of the manic depressive state which I have seen in many many of my religious friends. When they pray and something good happens they are elated only to crash when something is not solved as they wished then they ponder what they did wrong and what message God is trying to tell them.


It also seems that it's pretty much ok to act completely insane as long as you are giving it up to God or Jesus or Allah or whoever. But this sort of delusional behavior is pretty much tolerated because of religious beliefs. Now that more and more people don't have them, the excited deluded are starting to seem out of place and weird and are probably being encouraged by employers and family to seek out professional help.

 

[laca]

At this point in time, worry can be seen coming from being disobedient to Christ, Who has directly given us a command not to worry. The more that the commandment not to worry is disobeyed, the more mental illness.

Why should I obey a lunatic? Furthermore, if you choose to obey him, why don't you obey him completely? Lest you catch some of those mental illnesses...

There's the contradiction too, that the less you worry, the bigger your problems get, hence more worry.

It is easily seen then, that there is a direct relation to secularism (as an opposition to the one religion) and the rise of mental problems.

No.

 

[Craig B]

The bottom line in determining the ratio from the text of the Gospel can be seen easiest in this, of Christ's own words : "Worry not".

It's all very well for you as the resurrected and prophesied Peter the Roman not to worry, but the rest of us are not so fortunate.

 

[Kopji]

At this point in time, worry can be seen coming from being disobedient to Christ, Who has directly given us a command not to worry. The more that the commandment not to worry is disobeyed, the more mental illness.

It is easily seen then, that there is a direct relation to secularism (as an opposition to the one religion) and the rise of mental problems.

"From the passions arise worry, and from worry arises fear. Away with the passions, and no fear, no worry." The Buddha, Sutra 42

Long before Christianity came on the scene there was much wisdom written about worry, and much of it was from secular sources. So this makes your argument about it being original to Christianity rather specious.

 

[Kopji]

And another. Somewhat longer for context.

...Our words fly off like arrows, as though we knew what was right and wrong. We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. And yet our opinions have no permanence: like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away. We are caught in the current and cannot return. We are tied up in knots like an old clogged drain; we are getting closer to death with no way to regain our youth. Joy and anger, sorrow and happiness, hope and fear, indecision and strength, humility and willfulness, enthusiasm and insolance, like music sounding from an empty reed or mushrooms rising from the warm dark earth, continually appear before us day and night. No one knows whence they come. Don't worry about it! Let them be! How can we understand it all in one day?

Chuang Tsu, Taoist poet circa 400 BCE
Inner Chapters
A new translation by Gia-Fu Feng & Jane English

 

[zooterkin]

At this point in time, worry can be seen coming from being disobedient to Christ, Who has directly given us a command not to worry. The more that the commandment not to worry is disobeyed, the more mental illness.

It is easily seen then, that there is a direct relation to secularism (as an opposition to the one religion) and the rise of mental problems.

"The one religion"? Which one would that be? And what would you expect to see in non-Christian, but religious, countries for mental health levels?

 

[edge]

"From the passions arise worry, and from worry arises fear. Away with the passions, and no fear, no worry." The Buddha, Sutra 42

Long before Christianity came on the scene there was much wisdom written about worry, and much of it was from secular sources. So this makes your argument about it being original to Christianity rather specious.

Why because they are in agreement?
All religions have some of the truth, but not all the truth.
Jesus said worry is from the devil/evil side of principalities.
Let Jesus guide you and place it in his hands, not in the world.
Worry means lack of faith in God and Jesus.
We all still will worry though, to a point.

 

[edge]

"Sin" does not equal "unfortunate choice" or "unhealthy lifestyle".

I said bad choices not unfortunate; unfortunate would be some one being a victim of someone else’s bad choices.
That person is innocent.
If you know that eating 300lbs of food in a week is bad for you and glutinous then that is bad for you and your temple and it is written that gluttony is a sin/bad, plus science says it is, it is a sin as described if you knowingly have all this information.
Some one who is 800lbs has a mental issue.
Some one who kills 30 people has a mental issue.
The person who works their employees to the point of collapsing has or may have a problem.
Apply that to anything you know that is bad for you and we all fall short, because we are all emotional creatures, push it the a limit and you get crazy.
If you are talking about OT rules as some have done then you haven’t seen that most of this was cultural and meant for the ancient Hebrews.
Even they couldn’t follow all their own cultural rules as written, who could or would?
Because of continues failures and lack of total understanding of God is the exact reason why Jesus the messiah had to come to us.
They had most of the ways of God wrong and failed.
The Poor are not concerned with what they wear or eat, just the fact that they had clothing and something to eat was provided as all is given for us to use not just Cotton.
They knew this from Noah.
So how did they not get this later?
What happened?
Another cultures influence perhaps?

 

[Mojo]

At this point in time, worry can be seen coming from being disobedient to Christ, Who has directly given us a command not to worry. The more that the commandment not to worry is disobeyed, the more mental illness.

If this is the case, then religion causes mental illness. Without the religion, the "commandment" would not matter.

 

[edge]

According to whom? My lifestyle is a pretty boring one, frankly, and it may be a very bad choice for someone else. Somebody else's lifestyle choices may be bad for me. I don't drink or smoke, but I also mix my fabrics and eat pork. According to your god's rules, the drinking and smoking would actually be okay, and I'm "sinning" because of the fabrics and dietary choices. "Sin" is a completely made-up concept, and every person has different ideas of what constitutes a bad life choice or lifestyle.

Do you believe that people making different lifestyle choices than the ones laid out by your particular god are in any way responsible for all the ills of the world, from the earthquakes and hurricanes, to the rates of insomnia and dementia?
It is being judgmental. Because you're saying that some choices are good and others are bad. I personally don't like tattoos. If other people want them, that's fine by me. If I'm tsk-tsking people who get tattoos then I'm being judgmental for no reason whatsoever, and I've now put myself out as a worse "sinner" than the people I'm judging. Why do I care if somebody else decides to get a tattoo or forgo eating meat? Why do you care if somebody else believes in the same mythology that you do? I don't need others to fit my mold, and I don't want to be pushed into somebody else's. Yet, religion is all about trying to shove everybody into the same mold, and then shaming and judging people who are "different" and then pinning the ills of the world or their own lives onto their lifestyle. There is no god out there punishing "bad" people with insomnia and strokes, or punishing entire cities with hurricanes and tornadoes.

I believe that people go crazy because they are lost and at a dead, and I repeat dead end to their lives and without hope.
No other religion gives us hope and a way to redemption.
In yellow, whose rules the Hebrew’s or Jesus?
In bold above:
Are Muslims and their religion a cause for worry today?
I think Christians learned a lesson years ago where the Muslims haven’t and are on the right way or path to spread the gospels as they were meant.
Tattoos and body altering:
To stay on the right path according to what is written about that is a tough one.
First if it appears to be judgmental, it is, first to the person following what is right or wrong.
First it is tribal and we are meant to be Christians therefore I have to make a judgment call.
Now you have to keep in mind that what you mark as permanent will be.
It’s about what those enhancements are reveling to other people and to God.
What it means to you or the person with enhancements is about your heart.
What do you think about Casey’s As. tats?

Is it Crazy?
In her position was it a sane thing at that time to do?

It’s not me you have explaining to do about your/their enhancements but to God.
This is the way I look at it, but don’t wander over half naked in front of my children with Daimler tattooed on your back, that would be wrong.
Then you have those types who are even more extreme in the fact that they are changing their structures like the face for instance to look like an animal.

The only thing I have to say is I have enough to explain let alone an add on.
These things cross more than one or two lines and I am glad I figured it out early.
I really have no need to worry about these things myself and I am giving you the reasons why I don’t do this.


Lots of people figure this out after they have done this and change it or cover the bad with good, change of heart is good, and correcting mistakes about ourselves is a good thing, mistakes happen.
Then there’s the question of religious tattoos?

 

[edge]

If this is the case, then religion causes mental illness. Without the religion, the "commandment" would not matter.

It might if you are fanatical.

 

[Mojo]

It might if you are fanatical.

Why would anyone be fanatical about Christ's "commandment" not to worry without religion?