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Debris removal specialist: Richard riggs saw melted beams, molten steel

AndrewBurley said:
You agree he saw melted steel then?
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Either explain how melted steel fits in to a conspiracy theory, or don't. If you don't, it'll be an admission that you're posting off-topic and you have no idea of what argument you're trying to put forward. And if you do, then we'll be able to point out why your theory doesn't make sense. Your choice.

I'll never understand this tactic from truthers where they try and convince people their theory is true by refusing to say what it is.

Dave
 
AndrewBurley said:
Richard Riggs, the "debris expert" in the video, is (or was) General manager of Aman Environmental Inc., a company responsible for the kingdome demolition.

http://www.amanenvironmental.com/

http://www.djc.com/special/concrete00/4.html

He also wrote a book entitled "How to survive in a 911 environment"

http://www.allbookstores.com/book/1403314225/Richard_Riggs/How_To_Survive_In_A_911_Environment.html
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Thank you for the info. So what is his specific expertise with molten metals and metallurgy?

You're using him as an expert witness. Please state his credentials in that specific area. Include all university training or post-secondary, graduate work etc..

Thank you.

btw, the guy who headed the engineering investigation has:

Bachelor of technology degree in civil engineering from the Indian Institute of Technology
Master of science degree in civil engineering, MIT
Doctor of science degree in structural engineering, MIT

Relevant positions held:
Instructor, assistant professor, associate professor, principal research scientist and senior research scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).
Deputy Director of the Building and Fire Research Laboratory (BFRL) at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)

Yet truthers scream that he's a 'shill'. Our own Bill Smith once opined that this man would be among the first to be arrested 'if this ever comes over the top'.

I guess to truthers, real qualifications are very threatening, very bad!! If you're extra qualified, you're extra bad and evil!!
 
bill smith said:
Well I did find a site that said for all the components in concrete yo melt you would need a temperature of about 2,600 degrees centigrade. Way way above what is needed to nelt steel,
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It's obvious on where you stop informing yourself with factual information and common sense. You say 2600 degrees, but yet..there are identifiable guns, that would melt at a much lower temperature, encased in a much hotter material....yet they didn't melt. Wow Bill, you outdo yourself...again.:rolleyes:
 
How lack of expertise in an authority figure can be dangerous:

Here's an example of something that occurred 3 years ago. I was involved thru personal affiliation...

A baby was admitted to hospital in distress, the parents (who had 2 other children) told the Doctor that the child had fallen. The Doctor noticed some odd physical evidence, and concluded that the baby had been injured thru 'shaken baby syndrome'.
Social services were contacted and all the children were taken into custody. The maximum term allowed, by law, for evaluation was 6 months, but the children were kept for 3 years!

The parents eventually got a team of volunteer helpers, including an expert witness - an expert in shaken baby syndrome! It turns out the admitting Doctor made a snap decision, but was not an expert in the syndrome, and did not consult a specialist or expert before making the determination which sealed the fate of the children.

It turns out the child has an underlying and rare condition which causes bruising, and brittle bones. That condition is verified by specialists of the child.

It took over 3 years to overturn that one decision and return the children to their parents, who had done nothing wrong.

This is one of the problems that you run into when you allow an authority figure to make a judgement on something outside their area of expertise, without consulting any expert first.

Luckily, nobody is going to listen to Bill Smith and arrest Dr Sunder for something he didn't do, nor Larry Silverstein, nor even Dick Cheney. That would be a simple witch hunt, not something that a modern civilization should be participating in. David Chandler accused NIST of fraud, but Chandler is not a structural engineer nor a demolition expert, so his personal opinion is not a valid measure of the truth in that area. Fraud is a serious offense, it's fascinating that truthers both:

Attribute expertise to those who do not possess it
Deny the expertise of those who have it

No wonder why they get everything so bass ackwards!
 
So. let's summarize what we have so far:

1. A debris removal specialist says "...dug up molten steel"
- truthers have not explained how you can dig up liquid steel, yet they believe this is what happened

2. This specialist says fires fed by office contents did that
- truthers claim the specialist is wrong on that count

3. Specialist says "fires melted beams"
- truthers claim that he saw liquid steel dripping from solid beams, yet fail to quote where he said that

4. Truthers insist specialist means literally what he says when it suits them (molten steel = liquid steel), but at the same time ask to be allowed interpreting things into his words that he didn't say

5. When one truther flat-out LIES about what witnesses say, other truthers remain silent and let the lie pass by

6. Truthers collectively dodge all questions regarding the possible mistakes and misunderstandings in the specialist's remarks

7. Truthers collectively fail to explain what liquid steel, even if it had been present, would mean with regards to the collapse of the towers, or more specifically to the condition of the towers before they collapse

Did I forget anything important?
 
alienentity said:
Fraud is a serious offense, it's fascinating that truthers both:

Attribute expertise to those who do not possess it
Deny the expertise of those who have it
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Oystein said:
So. let's summarize what we have so far:

1. A debris removal specialist says "...dug up molten steel"
- truthers have not explained how you can dig up liquid steel, yet they believe this is what happened

2. This specialist says fires fed by office contents did that
- truthers claim the specialist is wrong on that count

3. Specialist says "fires melted beams"
- truthers claim that he saw liquid steel dripping from solid beams, yet fail to quote where he said that

4. Truthers insist specialist means literally what he says when it suits them (molten steel = liquid steel), but at the same time ask to be allowed interpreting things into his words that he didn't say 5. When one truther flat-out LIES about what witnesses say, other truthers remain silent and let the lie pass by 6. Truthers collectively dodge all questions regarding the possible mistakes and misunderstandings in the specialist's remarks
7. Truthers collectively fail to explain what liquid steel, even if it had been present, would mean with regards to the collapse of the towers, or more specifically to the condition of the towers before they collapse

Did I forget anything important?
Click to expand...

This is basically how truthers operate on a consistant basis.
 
Oh, I found the BS quote. Used to be in my sig but I made room for the mrkinnies stundalicious statement (see my sig!)

'If this ever comes on top the people I mention here will be among the first to be arrested. Les Robertson, Shyam Sunder, Mark Loizeaux' etc....

Burn the witches!!!
 
bill smith said:
The guns encased in formerly molten concrete were from WTC6 weren't they Alien ? Did you know that the components of concrete like stone and so on melt at an even higher temperature than steel ? Get the picture ?
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What were the guns made of , Bill?
 
MIKILLINI said:
It's obvious on where you stop informing yourself with factual information and common sense. You say 2600 degrees, but yet..there are identifiable guns, that would melt at a much lower temperature, encased in a much hotter material....yet they didn't melt. Wow Bill, you outdo yourself...again.:rolleyes:
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Yes, I asked what the guns were made out of for this same reason.
Run...BS...RUN!:D
 
Oystein said:
Should I oystein-bookmark this? A rare instance of Marokkaan saying something true!


Why should NIST be interested in the fire conditions inside the rubble pile - which is the topic of this video? If NIST took that person serious, they'd have learned that there were contents from millions of square feet of office space burning like hell. NIST knew that already. It does not tell them anything interesting or new about the conditions before the collapse.

If you disagree, Marokkaan, please explain how observation of what fire in the rubble does to the rubble help explain why and how the towers collapsed!


Since that is not what he is saying, you are indeed speculating.


Holy crap! Are you construing this as "steel from steel-toed boots melted"? Is that what she said? Can you please quote her accurately? A do not forget the 1100°!

Tell me, when a "steel toed boot" starts to melt, which part would you expect to melt first:

A) The steel toe
B) Everything but the steel toe (rubber, leather, plastics...)
C) The steel toe and the rubber would melt at the same temp

In the unlikely case you picked A or C, please explain how any of the workers escaped from the required >2800°F?
What would happen to their feet if indeed the steel-caps came close to 2800°F
And why would the woman say 1100°, when molten steel requires 2800°?




Do you EVER think before you chant the creeds of this truther religion?
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If a firefighter can keep his boots on while the steel toe is melting then he's stronger than steel.

Where do we get such men?
 
sheeplesnshills said:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeFood

LOL the molten chocolate you see in TV ads is brown paint.........so from yards away, I have two bowls of a brown liquid. One is paint the other chocolate so how do you know which is which?:D
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My girlfriend works in an ad agency where they actually shoot pics of the food for advertisements. The food is always real, they never use motor oil or whatnot. They have professional chefs and food stylists (yes, that is an actual occupation) prepare it for the shoot, which is why it always looks so perfect in pictures.

On rare days when the crew doesn't eat all the photo subjects some makes it home for me to eat. :)

But I think the meme that the food you see in advertisements is fake is more urban legend than fact.
 
AndrewBurley said:
Richard Riggs, the "debris expert" in the video, is (or was) General manager of Aman Environmental Inc., a company responsible for the kingdome demolition.

http://www.amanenvironmental.com/

http://www.djc.com/special/concrete00/4.html

He also wrote a book entitled "How to survive in a 911 environment"

http://www.allbookstores.com/book/1403314225/Richard_Riggs/How_To_Survive_In_A_911_Environment.html
Click to expand...

Been C&P from Let's Roll forum Andrew tut tut.
http://letsrollforums.com/richard-riggs-t14417.html

Curiously it seems the "rollers" dint belive Mr Riggs.
 
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bill smith said:
Well I did find a site that said for all the components in concrete yo melt you would need a temperature of about 2,600 degrees centigrade. Way way above what is needed to nelt steel,
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Why doesn't the concrete melt the gun?

I see others have mentioned this but Bill has not responded.:(
 
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Marokkaan said:
Mistake? If i see a melted beam, i see the beam is melting. There is no mistake in that, only if he is blind or crazy.
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All the other info in my post, and THAT'S the sentence you choose to focus on?

twinstead, I've lost my hope; shall I join you in mocking?
 
Sabrina said:
All the other info in my post, and THAT'S the sentence you choose to focus on?

twinstead, I've lost my hope; shall I join you in mocking?
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I only reply on ontopic posts. I want to know if the guy is lying. I do not talk about other things then that.

So be ontopic or leave the topic.
 
Marokkaan said:
I only reply on ontopic posts. I want to know if the guy is lying. I do not talk about other things then that.
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Mistaken.

You might want to look up the word if you do not understand it. You can find it in the dictionary under "M".


Marokkaan said:
So be ontopic or leave the topic.
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As for Sabrina's post, well she can be forgiven for giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are actually interested in the subject matter. That you are not is hardly her fault.
 
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