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Debris removal specialist: Richard riggs saw melted beams, molten steel

Well I did find a site that said for all the components in concrete yo melt you would need a temperature of about 2,600 degrees centigrade. Way way above what is needed to nelt steel,

Funny that you don't link that source.

Oh and who ever said that you need to melt ALL the components in concrete to embed guns in it? Did you just invent yourself a cute little strawman?
 
Let's pretend it was moleten steel,can someone explain what this proves?
I would ask Andrew Burley but having debated with him on 911 on Digital Spy and seen him ignore evidence I guess it would be pointless. :D
It sure seems that way.

carlitos said:
AndrewBurley said:
I would like to see your evidence for this. Was every beam checked for such evidence? Why would they bother if melting has no relevance to the collapse?

Please, before you worry about the details, think about the big picture:
You have now been asked at least twice three FOUR FIVE times what the relevance of this is.

ASSUME for the sake of argument that there were "melted beams" at the WTC site a few weeks after the buildings collapsed.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? What hypothesis have you developed to explain the events of the day into which this (molten steel beams) plays a role?


Yes, one must be a Belgian Chocolatiere to notice that your KitKat is melted.:D

You couldn't make this up could you?

If you see melted chocolate, for instance in a "debris pile," you can tell the brand? Interesting skill.
 
Marokkaan replied to posts 210 and 211, but apparently missed 201:

Liar.

Plain
old
liar.

The woman does not use the word "glowing" even once.



Marokkaan, please write up a FULL TRANSCRIPT of that video. So we can all see that you just lied.

Could someone please quote post 201, so Marokkaan is informed about the fact that his lie is plainly visible to all the world?
 
Yes, one must be a Belgian Chocolatiere to notice that your KitKat is melted.:D

You couldn't make this up could you?
Metal is not the same as chocolate. We all know what chocolate looks like when melted, unless you want to argue that it's easy to mistake it for liquid feces?
 
"Belgian chocolatier"

chocolate_face.jpg
 
Funny that you don't link that source.

Oh and who ever said that you need to melt ALL the components in concrete to embed guns in it? Did you just invent yourself a cute little strawman?

Well you would see all the unmelted stones and stuff that did not melt in the pictures. And the police caption says that it is formerly molten concrete. So taking them at their word and seeing that there appear to be no stones or suchlike we can assume that they are homogenously melted in with the rest.

Which may well mean 2,600 degrees centigrade or so. Far more than is needed to melt steel. So the report of molten metal running down the walls in WTC6 could easily be molten steel seeing that it was the commonest metal in the WTC..
 
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Well I did find a site that said for all the components in concrete yo melt you would need a temperature of about 2,600 degrees centigrade. Way way above what is needed to nelt steel,

Holy crap, what were the guns made of?

Also, was 6WTC therm*ted?
 
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Metal is not the same as chocolate. We all know what chocolate looks like when melted, unless you want to argue that it's easy to mistake it for liquid feces?

Compare, a chocolate bar with a steelbeam. And compare the melting process.

You are now telling to me you can not see when a chocolate bar melts, and when a steelbeam melts???
 
You seem to be laboring under a misconception, Marokkaan.

We aren't disputing that steel beams can melt; they can, and do, at a very specific temperature (>2800 degrees Celsius, IIRC). What we are disputing is that one cannot tell with a simple cursory glance what composition a pool of liquid molten material is without some sort of chemical composition test.

No one has disputed that eyewitnesses saw pools of molten metal. But the EVIDENCE (such as the melting point of steel being FAR above the highest recorded temperatures of the debris pile) points to it being any one of the number of other metals that comprised the WTC towers structure. Copper or aluminum have far lower melting points and appear to look almost exactly the same as a pool of liquid molten steel when in their liquid state. The likelihood is far greater that the molten (i.e. liquid) metal pools observed were not, in fact, steel, but were copper or aluminum, both of which comprised a goodly percentage, if not the majority, of the metal found in the WTC construction. So we are not calling your witness a liar; we are calling him mistaken, and pointing to the science that backs up our points. You have yet to point to any; merely cherry-picking a single quote made by someone who may or may not realize that steel cannot possibly melt at the temperatures measured in the debris pile. They can soften, certainly, and bend and warp and twist, but they could not have melted into an entirely liquid pool of metal.
 
You seem to be laboring under a misconception, Marokkaan.

We aren't disputing that steel beams can melt; they can, and do, at a very specific temperature (>2800 degrees Celsius, IIRC). What we are disputing is that one cannot tell with a simple cursory glance what composition a pool of liquid molten material is without some sort of chemical composition test.

No one has disputed that eyewitnesses saw pools of molten metal. But the EVIDENCE (such as the melting point of steel being FAR above the highest recorded temperatures of the debris pile) points to it being any one of the number of other metals that comprised the WTC towers structure. Copper or aluminum have far lower melting points and appear to look almost exactly the same as a pool of liquid molten steel when in their liquid state. The likelihood is far greater that the molten (i.e. liquid) metal pools observed were not, in fact, steel, but were copper or aluminum, both of which comprised a goodly percentage, if not the majority, of the metal found in the WTC construction. So we are not calling your witness a liar; we are calling him mistaken, and pointing to the science that backs up our points. You have yet to point to any; merely cherry-picking a single quote made by someone who may or may not realize that steel cannot possibly melt at the temperatures measured in the debris pile. They can soften, certainly, and bend and warp and twist, but they could not have melted into an entirely liquid pool of metal.

It's always good to take the time to explain things like this, Sabrina, but you know as well as I do this is totally lost on marokkaan.
 
We are talking about a debris expert. This person is not a random person or a policeofficer or something. He has experience with debris.

Marokkaan, what experience with debris does a person need to be considered an "debris expert" (in your opinion)? Also, do they need any formal education, a certain amount of "hands-on-training" (etc...)? Please, be specific.
 
Why would you try to denigrate the man in the video in this way?

You're one to talk. Why do try to denegrate someone by lying, claiming that they "casually called fighterfighters, first responder heroes, liars" when they did no such thing?

It's amazing how much you cult recruiters lie, and yet still think you are fooling people that this is some noble search for 'truth'.
 
Marokkaan, what experience with debris does a person need to be considered an "debris expert" (in your opinion)? Also, do they need any formal education, a certain amount of "hands-on-training" (etc...)? Please, be specific.

Richard Riggs, the "debris expert" in the video, is (or was) General manager of Aman Environmental Inc., a company responsible for the kingdome demolition.

http://www.amanenvironmental.com/

http://www.djc.com/special/concrete00/4.html

He also wrote a book entitled "How to survive in a 911 environment"

http://www.allbookstores.com/book/1403314225/Richard_Riggs/How_To_Survive_In_A_911_Environment.html
 
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Compare, a chocolate bar with a steelbeam. And compare the melting process.

You are now telling to me you can not see when a chocolate bar melts, and when a steelbeam melts???
If it's melted how can you tell it's original form? If I melted some chocolate could you tell what it's shape was before it became liquid? Can you tell the difference between chocolate and the brown stuff you're peddling?
 
You seem to be laboring under a misconception, Marokkaan.

We aren't disputing that steel beams can melt; they can, and do, at a very specific temperature (>2800 degrees Celsius, IIRC). What we are disputing is that one cannot tell with a simple cursory glance what composition a pool of liquid molten material is without some sort of chemical composition test.

No one has disputed that eyewitnesses saw pools of molten metal. But the EVIDENCE (such as the melting point of steel being FAR above the highest recorded temperatures of the debris pile) points to it being any one of the number of other metals that comprised the WTC towers structure. Copper or aluminum have far lower melting points and appear to look almost exactly the same as a pool of liquid molten steel when in their liquid state. The likelihood is far greater that the molten (i.e. liquid) metal pools observed were not, in fact, steel, but were copper or aluminum, both of which comprised a goodly percentage, if not the majority, of the metal found in the WTC construction. So we are not calling your witness a liar; we are calling him mistaken, and pointing to the science that backs up our points. You have yet to point to any; merely cherry-picking a single quote made by someone who may or may not realize that steel cannot possibly melt at the temperatures measured in the debris pile. They can soften, certainly, and bend and warp and twist, but they could not have melted into an entirely liquid pool of metal.

Mistake? If i see a melted beam, i see the beam is melting. There is no mistake in that, only if he is blind or crazy.
 
Very telling how Andrew has nothing to say after telling such a blatant and obvious disgusting lie in an attempt to win imaginary points.

Quite the typical example of 911 cult mentality at it's core.
 

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