Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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Patrick1000 said:
Wampler had the coordinates long before this. This is from the bogus 11.1.3 section of the Mission Report and despite the machinations, the astronauts and Houston do not have the landing site coordinates until just before launch. AND Armstrong does not look at that crater until right before he leaves the lunar surface and ends the EVA. So Wampler has the coordinates before "Armstrong looks at the crater". quote from 11.1.3, coordinates to crew before lift off and they were not by the way 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east.


"These data were transmitted to the Command Module Pilot on the last pass before lunar module lift-off, but the Command Mod- ule Pilot's activities at this time did not permit visual search. The location just west of West crater was confirmed by rendezvous radar track- ing of the command module by the lunar module near the end of the lunar stay period and by the descent photography."
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That quote does not say when Houston had their tentative identification of the site. Nor does it say when Wampler had it either. Keep trying.
 
Rendezvous radar tracking does not confirm 00 41 15 north, 23 26 00 east

Rendezvous radar tracking does not confirm 00 41 15 north, 23 26 00 east, though the Mission Report 11.1.3 says it does;


"These data were transmitted to the Command Module Pilot on the last pass before lunar module lift-off, but the Command Mod- ule Pilot's activities at this time did not permit visual search. The location just west of West crater was confirmed by rendezvous radar track- ing of the command module by the lunar module near the end of the lunar stay period and by the descent photography."



Rendezvous radar coordinates per the Mission report were latitude, 0.676 longitude, 23.43 , not latitude 0.6875, longitude 23.435 which are equivalently 00 41 15 north , 23 2600 east.
 
Patrick1000 said:
Rendezvous radar tracking does not confirm 00 41 15 north, 23 26 00 east, though the Mission Report 11.1.3 says it does;


"These data were transmitted to the Command Module Pilot on the last pass before lunar module lift-off, but the Command Mod- ule Pilot's activities at this time did not permit visual search. The location just west of West crater was confirmed by rendezvous radar track- ing of the command module by the lunar module near the end of the lunar stay period and by the descent photography."



Rendezvous radar coordinates per the Mission report were latitude, 0.676 longitude, 23.43 , not latitude 0.6875, longitude 23.435 which are equivalently 00 41 15 north , 23 2600 east.
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Your co-ordinates are wrong.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/lunar_sites.html
 
And finally this from the ALSJ, the final coordinates were not those of Tranquility

Jack by the hedge said:
That quote does not say when Houston had their tentative identification of the site. Nor does it say when Wampler had it either. Keep trying.
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And finally this from the ALSJ, the final coordinates were not those of Tranquility Base;

"121:08:14 Collins: Rog. Understand. (Pause)

The LM crew will track the Command Module as it passes over the landing site for the last time prior to launch and, with the Command Module orbit well known, in principle the tracking data will help pin down the landing site. With the information available a half hour before launch - including the crew's descriptions of West Crater and Little West Crater and the returns from the laser reflectometer - at 123:55:23, Ron gives Mike a final LM location of J.5/7.7, which is only about 200 meters from the actual landing site at J.65/7.54. Mike will be too busy during that pass over the landing site to look for the descent stage."

Wampler had the exact coordinates and Houston/astronauts and others off by 200 meters, and yes it would make all the difference for reasons we are all to well aware of. Tranquility coordinates were not identified prior to launch.
 
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And look at that BIG LIE!!!

And look at that BIG LIE, CAPITALS MINE!



"121:08:14 Collins: Rog. Understand. (Pause)

The LM crew will track the Command Module as it passes over the landing site for the last time prior to launch and, with the Command Module orbit well known, in principle the tracking data will help pin down the landing site. With the information available a half hour before launch - including the crew's descriptions of West Crater and Little West Crater AND THE RETURNS FROM THE LASER REFLECTOMETER - at 123:55:23, Ron gives Mike a final LM location of J.5/7.7, which is only about 200 meters from the actual landing site at J.65/7.54. Mike will be too busy during that pass over the landing site to look for the descent stage."

The LRRR was not successfully targeted until 08/01/1969 and here is a claim in the ALSJ to the contrary. An obvious lie to cover up the bird hiding jive. If this isn't a big fat bust, I do not know what is.
 
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So to make their phony story work, they have to claim the LRRR was found!

So to make their phony story work, they have to claim the LRRR was found!
And now the chickens have really come home to roost, and not at 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. At least I won't let them roost there until 08/01/1969. So take that jive outta' here Houston!
 
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Patrick1000 said:
We can be positive they left more than a little ol' LRRR because they lied about it. The trajectory data is fraudulent.

We know from the Lick Observatory staff, very accurate landing site data was available BEFORE it was calculated by the trajectory specialists, by the flight dynamics officers. No reason to lie like this, and it is a huge huge risky risky lie, easy to spot, unless you are up to something pretty spectacular. So sure they have a mirror there. But you don't launch a rocket that big just to put a mirror on the moon. If you go all that way, with that much capability payload wise, and you are telling such big big big easily spotable lies, somethieng else, well something in addition is going on. At the very least, the unmanned craft are like Surveyor VII, with cameras and antennae. But I imagine they have much much much more capability than sSurveyor VII, or the Soviet rover with the LRRR. Why go all that way and tell such big lies to cover your fanny unless you have some big fat NARLY packaqge to plop down on the green cheese?
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So the bigger the need to keep a secret the bigger and risker the lies you tell about it?
 
Sobering

tsig said:
So the bigger the need to keep a secret the bigger and risker the lies you tell about it?
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tsig, take a look at my last 3 posts, they are sobering my friend. Who is telling lies now? A successfully targeted LRRR on 07/21/1969 to find the Eagle? I don't think so. Better take a very cold shower my friend. The tide has turned and this time for good!
 
Not assertions they are quotes from the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal

tsig said:
There was no fraud.

See, assertions are easy.
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Not assertions they are quotes from the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal. AND the Journal authors are lying about Apollo history so that they can pretend someone knew where the Eagle was on the night of the landing.

I am not making anything up. Read it for yourself, They claim the LRRR was found on 07/21/1969, a BIG LIE!!! Good night!
 
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Patrick1000 said:
And finally this from the ALSJ, the final coordinates were not those of Tranquility Base;

"121:08:14 Collins: Rog. Understand. (Pause)

The LM crew will track the Command Module as it passes over the landing site for the last time prior to launch and, with the Command Module orbit well known, in principle the tracking data will help pin down the landing site. With the information available a half hour before launch - including the crew's descriptions of West Crater and Little West Crater and the returns from the laser reflectometer - at 123:55:23, Ron gives Mike a final LM location of J.5/7.7, which is only about 200 meters from the actual landing site at J.65/7.54. Mike will be too busy during that pass over the landing site to look for the descent stage."

Wampler had the exact coordinates and Houston/astronauts and others off by 200 meters, and yes it would make all the difference for reasons we are all to well aware of. Tranquility coordinates were not identified prior to launch.
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Got a link? Can't find that at the timestamp you claim.
 
Patrick1000 said:
And look at that BIG LIE, CAPITALS MINE!



"121:08:14 Collins: Rog. Understand. (Pause)

The LM crew will track the Command Module as it passes over the landing site for the last time prior to launch and, with the Command Module orbit well known, in principle the tracking data will help pin down the landing site. With the information available a half hour before launch - including the crew's descriptions of West Crater and Little West Crater AND THE RETURNS FROM THE LASER REFLECTOMETER - at 123:55:23, Ron gives Mike a final LM location of J.5/7.7, which is only about 200 meters from the actual landing site at J.65/7.54. Mike will be too busy during that pass over the landing site to look for the descent stage."

The LRRR was not successfully targeted until 08/01/1969 and here is a claim in the ALSJ to the contrary. An obvious lie to cover up the bird hiding jive. If this isn't a big fat bust, I do not know what is.
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Hilighting mine. They would have used LRRR info in principle. In fact they didn't have any. It's ambiguous, but only the truly desperate would call it coverup or "a big fat bust".
 
Desperate and incoherent and you know it.

Jack by the hedge said:
Hilighting mine. They would have used LRRR info in principle. In fact they didn't have any. It's ambiguous, but only the truly desperate would call it coverup or "a big fat bust".
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The ALSJ is not a real time journal. That stuff about the LRRR is written well after this issue is all settled Jack by the hedge. It is written well after 08/01/1969, well after everyone knew! the LRRR had not been successfully targeted until 08/01/1969. Don't give me that bull. The ALSJ is an edited transcript and that stuff was written months or years after and now we shall find out when it was written, won't we?!
 
I think they would have their facts straight by 2010 JAck by the hedge

Jack by the hedge said:
Hilighting mine. They would have used LRRR info in principle. In fact they didn't have any. It's ambiguous, but only the truly desperate would call it coverup or "a big fat bust".
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From the page describing "The Journal"

"This 23 December 2010 release of the Journal contains all of the text for the six successful landing missions as well as many photos, maps, equipment drawings, background documents, voice tracks, and video clips which, we hope, will help make the lunar experience more accessible and understandable."
 
abaddon said:
It looks like a PAO commentary to me,, but I can't find it.
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Try here: http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/

I see that the comment at 123:55:23 says of the LM location given to Colins "This location is almost certainly from P22 data from use of the Rendezvous Radar to track the CSM. With the CSM orbit well know from tracking a certain small crater with the CSM sextant, the calculation was run backwards to determine the LM location."

That looks to me as if they thought that, when it came to getting the LM back up to the CSM, the most important relationship was the relative position of the CSM and LM, rather than the precise location of the LM on the moon. How very sensible of them.
 
Wonder what they will say when I point out the big fat LIE I spotted!

"The Journal is, in Neil Armstrong's words, a "living document". The Journal Update File details recent additions, changes and corrections. E-mail messages to honais@gamil.com."
 
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