Could the very high rate of mental illness in Europe be related to religion decline?

[catsmate]

So, to summarise:

1. DOC claims that the higher level of mental illness (in Europe is linked to the decline in religious belief there.
2. DOC is confronted with evidence that the level of mental illness in Europe is lower than in the USA.
3. DOC is shown other plausible reasons for an apparently higher level of mental illness in Europe; better health care, less stigma attaching to mental illness, poor methodology in the data gathering.
4. DOC is shown evidence that there is no link between levels of religious belief and levels of mental illness.
5. DOC ignore all these facts.

Is this accurate?

 

[edge]

If as some have claimed, atheism is a religion, then is there really a decline in religion at all?

It's an increase in anti-religion.
Predicted.

 

[TimCallahan]

It's an increase in anti-religion.
Predicted.

Edge, perhaps you can answer the post I addressed to Novest. I'm particularly interested in your response to the fact that, though the U.S. and Canada have comparable rates of church attendance, Canada's mental illness rate - 20% is less than half that of the U.S.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Don't tell me, you just took science away from religion and claimed it as your own, like there are no scientist or doctors that have a religion. If you did, try again.

Your response has nothing to do with my post. You asked what atheism is doing to help people with mental illnesses. I simply pointed out that atheism has nothing to do with helping people with mental illnesses, it is simply a lack of belief in gods. Although atheists can certainly be concerned with and involved with the treatment of such conditions through the use of the scientific method.

 

[edge]

Edge, perhaps you can answer the post I addressed to Novest. I'm particularly interested in your response to the fact that, though the U.S. and Canada have comparable rates of church attendance, Canada's mental illness rate - 20% is less than half that of the U.S.

It's the country, fresh air, obscurity, woods, ice, and nature.
They’re not at war and in debt either.
The rate of church goers doesn't matter, there are many believers who don't go to church for what ever reasons.
The whole world is crazy.

 

[AdMan]

The rate of church goers doesn't matter, there are many believers who don't go to church for what ever reasons.

So your point is that Canadians are more religious than Americans, even if they may not go to church, and that helps account for their lower rates of mental illness, is that right?

Let's see...

The most recent ARIS report, released March 9, 2009, found in 2008, 34.2 million Americans (15.0%) claim no religion, of which 1.6% explicitly describes itself as atheist (0.7%) or agnostic (0.9%), nearly double the previous 2001 ARIS survey figure of 0.9%.[28] The highest occurrence of "nones", according to the 2008 ARIS report, reside in Vermont, with 34% surveyed.[29]

The latest statistics show that a lack of religious identity increased in every US state between 1990 and 2008.[30] However less than 2% of the U.S. population describes itself as atheist.[31]

Atheism is more prevalent in Canada than in the United States, with 19–30% of the population holding an atheistic or agnostic viewpoint.
... A recent survey in 2008 found that 23% of Canadians said they did not believe in a god.

Demographics of atheism - North America

Highlights added.

 

[joobz]

They’re not at war and in debt either.

You just supplied to additional factors that are likely to have more of an impact than religion on mental health.

The rate of church goers doesn't matter,...

exactly. This is Tim's point.

The data supports that the rate of decline in religion likely has no significant impact on the mental health of a populous.

 

[dafydd]

You just supplied to additional factors that are likely to have more of an impact than religion on mental health.



exactly. This is Tim's point.

The data supports that the rate of decline in religion likely has no significant impact on the mental health of a populous.

The decline of religion would show that mental health is improving.

 

[Novest]

Your response has nothing to do with my post. You asked what atheism is doing to help people with mental illnesses. I simply pointed out that atheism has nothing to do with helping people with mental illnesses, it is simply a lack of belief in gods. Although atheists can certainly be concerned with and involved with the treatment of such conditions through the use of the scientific method.

Yes it does lol. Cause i can say the same, Christian doctors and scientist use scientific methods to help a malfunctioning body, just as a non-believer doctor and scientist. This thread is a downer towards religion, assuming and i repeat very softly, assuming there is no religious person who believes in science.

Oh the other hand, Religion helps to deal with the demons that float around, now just because you don't believe God(s) to not exist, do you believe Demons not to exist? What if an atheist were being mentally attacked by a demon, would you tell him, here you go his a magic demon pill science conjured up.

 

[Novest]

So, to summarise:

1. DOC claims that the higher level of mental illness (in Europe is linked to the decline in religious belief there.
2. DOC is confronted with evidence that the level of mental illness in Europe is lower than in the USA.
3. DOC is shown other plausible reasons for an apparently higher level of mental illness in Europe; better health care, less stigma attaching to mental illness, poor methodology in the data gathering.
4. DOC is shown evidence that there is no link between levels of religious belief and levels of mental illness.
5. DOC ignore all these facts.

Is this accurate?

Anything to do with a religion, you must add Demons and Angels.

 

[Robrob]

I was surprised to see just how high the figures for mental illness are in Europe.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44394646/#.Tma_hI672_I

I maintain that an increase in secularism and decrease in religiosity could be a major reason.

And with equal basis in fact, I maintain an increase in Unobtanium levels and a decrease in Admantium could be a major reason.

 

[zooterkin]

Anything to do with a religion, you must add Demons and Angels.

Dan Brown is responsible for mental illness? You might be on to something there...

 

[Sawbones79]

Yes it does lol. Cause i can say the same, Christian doctors and scientist use scientific methods to help a malfunctioning body, just as a non-believer doctor and scientist. This thread is a downer towards religion, assuming and i repeat very softly, assuming there is no religious person who believes in science.

Oh the other hand, Religion helps to deal with the demons that float around, now just because you don't believe God(s) to not exist, do you believe Demons not to exist? What if an atheist were being mentally attacked by a demon, would you tell him, here you go his a magic demon pill science conjured up.

All right, religion might be useful against demons, I give you that. However, the existence of demons is kind of tied into religion in the same way lightsabers are tied in with Star Wars. In short, there are no demons.

 

[zooterkin]

Yes it does lol. Cause i can say the same, Christian doctors and scientist use scientific methods to help a malfunctioning body, just as a non-believer doctor and scientist.

Which is exactly the point being made; the religious beliefs of the doctors and scientists are irrelevant as long as they don't interfere with the research.

This thread is a downer towards religion, assuming and i repeat very softly, assuming there is no religious person who believes in science.

Please show where someone is assuming that in this thread.

Oh the other hand, Religion helps to deal with the demons that float around, now just because you don't believe God(s) to not exist, do you believe Demons not to exist? What if an atheist were being mentally attacked by a demon, would you tell him, here you go his a magic demon pill science conjured up.

Are you being serious? Do you have evidence for the existence of demons?

 

[laca]

Anything to do with a religion, you must add Demons and Angels.

Oh, we must? Let's see your take on this...

Coming from 2 point of views based both on experience, i agree and disagree to the original post.

Agreeing - Everyone is born sane, unless you, your body has a malfunction (same as a computer, machine etc) Believing in Heaven and Hell, Good and Evil, all diagnoses related to mental illness is a simple fact - Demons like to play with brains like doctors do, that one voice you think with, pineal gland(third eye), as do Angels and other spiritual entities. So DOC is right in saying the more mental illness around is a directed relation to a religion decline, hence more Demons around doing their job, unless by mistake the good guys overdone something the user cant handle, much like drugs, results vary on individuals.


Disagreeing - No such thing as Heaven and Hell, therefor no such thing as Demons or Angels, spiritual entities so on; playing, sending a message or visions. Drug related effects, and body malfunction pretty make the primary 2.

So which is it? Because one is not like the other.

 

[DOC]

Novest: Getting back to the OP, DOC suggested that the high rates of mental illness in Europe was caused by a decline in religion. We have pointed out the following:

1) The comparatively more religious U.S. has a higher rate of mental illness than does Europe as a whole...

What link says the current US rate for mental illness is higher than the 38% for Europe as was shown in the link in post #1?

 

[DOC]

So, to summarise:

1. DOC claims that the higher level of mental illness (in Europe is linked to the decline in religious belief there.
2. DOC is confronted with evidence that the level of mental illness in Europe is lower than in the USA.

1. 
   
   Where, which post says the American rate is higher than 38%. And we are not talking about a once in a lifetime occurrence, we are talking the current rate.

 

[Leif Roar]

What link says the current US rate for mental illness is higher then the 38% for Europe as was shown in the link in post #1?

The study linked in the original post says nothing about the prevalence of mental illness in Europe. It talks about brain dysfunction, which in their use is a very broad term indeed.

 

[Sawbones79]

The study linked in the original post says nothing about the prevalence of mental illness in Europe. It talks about brain dysfunction, which in their use is a very broad term indeed.

It could be argued that there's no definitite line between neurological and mental illness, but that's another topic. I definitely agree that the study does not make an adequate statement about the prevalence of mental illness. If DOC actually wanted to prove anything, he should look into studies documenting eventual covariations between religosity and experienced psychosocial wellbeing.

 

[Idiot Wind]

Novest: Getting back to the OP, DOC suggested that the high rates of mental illness in Europe was caused by a decline in religion. We have pointed out the following:

1) The comparatively more religious U.S. has a higher rate of mental illness than does Europe as a whole.

2) Within Europe, and across the globe, taken country by country, there seems to be no correlation between rates of mental illness and level of religiosity.

3) While Canada and the U.S. have comparable levels church attendance, Canada's rate of mental illness is less than half that of the U.S.

4) In the study DOC cited, two of the major forms of mental illness were strokes and various senile dementias, such as Alzheimer's; i.e. they are physically based and have nothing to do with religion or the lack of it. Both strokes and senile dementias, being functions of old age, will be higher in the developed world, where there are greater numbers of people who make it into old age.
5) Mental illness is high in counties experiencing high rates of unemployment, cultural disruption and civil strife. The first two afflict the Ukraine; the last afflicts Lebanon.

6) Taken all in all, rates of mental illness seem to vary from one country to another based on specific idiosyncratic conditions. They seem to have nothing whatsoever to do with levels of religiosity. This is particularly true of the striking difference in rates of mental illness between the U.S. and Canada, two countries more culturally alike than most any others in the world and with comparable levels of church attendance.

7) There is nothing in what I've noted above that smacks of some "atheist religion." We've pointed all this out to DOC, who has essentially not responded to these objective facts. Since DOC hasn't responded to the objections raised against his OP, perhaps you'd like to give that a try.

Good points, though I have my reservations about the highlighted one. They are all physical disorders unless we want to invoke mind/body dualism. I don;t see the difference between depression and stroke in that respect. They're both caused by brain dysfunction.