The Missing Chapter Of General Relativity?

[DeathDart]

What Ziggurat said - atomic physics is clearly not that environment dependent. We can see transition lines from the wispiest of nebulae, and from the accretion disks of black holes, and it all looks as we expect.

Black Holes wrong environment to look.

 

[edd]

Black Holes wrong environment to look.

The point is if you can't tell that environment from very low density environments.... where the hell are we supposed to look?

 

[Dancing David]

What would be the visible consequences if light's velocity were much greater than predicted in a region of space, with a fast flow of time?

Light passing through regions of very low gravity, (and I argue a faster flow of time), can change speed and wavelength without anything to indicate to a distant observer that it has happened. This may not be true for some processes that occur in low gravitational fields.

If a nebula has a very low density, so the local gravitational field is low, and the flow of time is fast, the wavelength stretched photon would reflect off of the material of the nebula as it normally would. The photon is also traveling with a speed that is the inverse of its decreased wavelength.

When the photon leaves the Low Gravity-Fast Time Flow LG-FTF, it returns to the light we would expect to see in normal time. The effect is the similar to the light traveling through a glass media. Except that fast time flow lengthens the wavelength and increases the velocity.

Look up alpha and the fine structure contant, as I said I asked a similar question a long time ago, it would change the spectra of the elements.

 

[Dancing David]

Black Holes wrong environment to look.

The Alpha-Lyman forest is way between stars.

 

[ben m]

Black Holes wrong environment to look.

You misread the post. We have data on atomic transitions everywhere. Black holes AND neutron stars AND dwarf stars AND giant stars AND planetary nebulae AND the interstellar medium AND the intracluster medium AND the Lyman-Alpha Forest. Strong gravity, medium gravity, weak gravity, ultra-weak gravity, and everything in between.

There is no evidence for changes in alpha (and thus changes in c) anywhere whatsoever.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

DD -

Light passing through regions of very low gravity, (and I argue a faster flow of time), can change speed and wavelength without anything to indicate to a distant observer that it has happened. This may not be true for some processes that occur in low gravitational fields.

In other words, it is not true for any observable process, and is therefore impossible to disprove. For instance, by observing absorption frequencies of molecules in different regions of space. How convenient. Could you do us all a favor and specify exactly what processes _are_ observably affected? It would save us all a lot of wasted time.

If a nebula has a very low density, so the local gravitational field is low, and the flow of time is fast, the wavelength stretched photon would reflect off of the material of the nebula as it normally would. The photon is also traveling with a speed that is the inverse of its decreased wavelength.

When the photon leaves the Low Gravity-Fast Time Flow LG-FTF, it returns to the light we would expect to see in normal time. The effect is the similar to the light traveling through a glass media. Except that fast time flow lengthens the wavelength and increases the velocity.

Ummm. Do you think you could pick a story and stick with it? Either
"The photon is also traveling with a speed that is the inverse of its decreased wavelength" OR "fast time flow lengthens the wavelength and increases the velocity". Not both, and contradicting yourself within two successive paragraphs does not inspire confidence.

And I'm with Complexity. "How's that math coming?"

 

[DeathDart]

Look up alpha and the fine structure contant, as I said I asked a similar question a long time ago, it would change the spectra of the elements.

Checking alpha and the fine structure.

It appears that it is a circular argument.
C is the direct and indirect basis for many of the constants.
Time is also incorporated except for the Coulomb which is a numerical value.

Alpha would change if Light had a velocity that differed from its proper frame.

Light is moving faster, in faster time, to maintain its proper frame.

Being at the bottom of a gravity well would also change alpha if your argument was correct. So when man went into orbit he should of died from alpha poisoning.

 

[DeathDart]

DD -


In other words, it is not true for any observable process, and is therefore impossible to disprove. For instance, by observing absorption frequencies of molecules in different regions of space. How convenient. Could you do us all a favor and specify exactly what processes _are_ observably affected? It would save us all a lot of wasted time.

And I'm with Complexity. "How's that math coming?"

The lighting up of isotopes from a Supernova is one argument. Isotopes in interstellar space will glow brighter as they move into gravitationally weak areas near the gT2 threshold. Normal expulsion mechanisms like slow solar winds are too slow. They will only deliver the isotopes into weak gravitational regions only after a very long period of time. Too long a time for most of the isotopes, those that remain will have a very long half life. An isotope with a half life of a 100,000 years becomes an isotope with a half life of 10,000 years in 10X space. That slow rate of decay doesn't produce a lot of energy.

A supernova expels it's isotopes at a high enough velocities that enough isotopes will be remaining when they hit fast space. When the isotopes reach low gravity regions ,time will speed up and they will glow.

A radioactive isotope is like a clock to measure local time. And it is small enough that its mass should not have a big impact on time space's flow. A particles INCREASED half life in an accelerator, was one argument for time dilation.

Another argument is the galactic rotation curves. That is the Math I am working on. How does gT2 affect the velocities of stars to explain the velocities without using dark matter. So far my velocities are still too high but my galactic mass for M33 is nearly 1 order less than with dark matter.

If you are expecting Einsteins Field Equations, you are going to have a long wait. The equations could have hardwired assumptions that won't allow faster values of time, without exploding.

At a minimum it would take me several weeks to months, if ever, to understand them well enough to use them.

 

[quarky]

In its first second of manifestation, did light travel at its constant speed, or was some acceleration required?

 

[Ziggurat]

Being at the bottom of a gravity well would also change alpha if your argument was correct. So when man went into orbit he should of died from alpha poisoning.

Uh... no. That's not how it works. Local measurements of alpha won't change. But a change in the rate of time DOES produce red/blue shifts. We can measure that with atomic spectra. The Lyman alpha forest provides a measurement for the rate of time for distant gas clouds in low-gravity environment. They do not display the increased time rate that you have hypothesized. The Lyman alpha forest falsifies your theory.

 

[DeathDart]

Uh... no. That's not how it works. Local measurements of alpha won't change. But a change in the rate of time DOES produce red/blue shifts. We can measure that with atomic spectra. The Lyman alpha forest provides a measurement for the rate of time for distant gas clouds in low-gravity environment. They do not display the increased time rate that you have hypothesized. The Lyman alpha forest falsifies your theory.

Velocity can cause redshifts in light sources.

So an atom is moving at high velocity in interstellar space, and its absorption band shifts.

The light that that is being absorbed is coming from a point father away in space.

The atom is heading toward the source of light it is absorbing.

This will blue shift the light that is striking it.

It will absorb the same wavelength as normal, but this wavelength, after compensating for blue shift will be redder. So you will have a dark absorption band lower in the spectrum.

If I have this correct, then it is still absorbing the same spectra, with no time effects, just velocity effects.

 

[DeathDart]

Another argument that time doesn't affect the process of the atom. A particle with a half-life doesn't decay as quickly when accelerated to relativistic velocities. The radiation it does release is the SAME as would be released by a particle sitting still (maybe a tad of velocity from the parent).

Slower time, delayed the decay, but did not affect its products.

So we can slow down or speed up time for an atom, but this doesn't change the result.

 

[marplots]

In its first second of manifestation, did light travel at its constant speed, or was some acceleration required?

At speed. It's one of those quantum leap things with no allowed states in between.

 

[Ziggurat]

Velocity can cause redshifts in light sources.

So an atom is moving at high velocity in interstellar space, and its absorption band shifts.

The light that that is being absorbed is coming from a point father away in space.

The atom is heading toward the source of light it is absorbing.

This will blue shift the light that is striking it.

That's irrelevant. The incident light is broad spectrum. The absorption is discrete lines. It's the shift of the discrete lines which we measure, any blue shift of the broad spectrum is irrelevant here.

The measured absorption spectrum is indeed red shifted. But your theory predicts a blue shift due to the weak gravitational field. No such blue shift is observed. Your theory is thus falsified.

 

[DeathDart]

That's irrelevant. The incident light is broad spectrum. The absorption is discrete lines. It's the shift of the discrete lines which we measure, any blue shift of the broad spectrum is irrelevant here.

The measured absorption spectrum is indeed red shifted. But your theory predicts a blue shift due to the weak gravitational field. No such blue shift is observed. Your theory is thus falsified.

I hope you don't make your living based on logic, unless you are a lawyer.

Because it was heading toward the light source the entire light spectrum is blue shifted. The wavelength of light absorbed by the atom doesn't change. (Time independent). As long as the framework is maintained, time changes nothing about HOW events occur, it does affect how often.

The movement of the atom in the direction of the source does not change the frequency it will absorb. It will absorb the same exact frequency that it was presented with when it was a fixed atom. Doppler shift will move the spectral lines higher. It will absorb light lower in the blue shifted spectrum because the Doppler shift has presented a wavelength that was IDENTICAL to what it would absorb when it was fixed. This is nothing about time.

The atoms wavelength within the light source spectrum does change because the Doppler shift represents a compression or stretching of the wavelength that is presented to the atom.

Time can change how often an atom does something, especially something time driven like radioactive decay. But it doesn't affect the product of that decay.

If the atom had been motionless relative to the light source, the atom would have absorbed a particular wavelength of the spectrum that was sent out by the light source. NO Doppler shifts.

Now if the source was moving either towards or away from the (Fixed) atom, its absorption band would still be the same frequency, but it would shift relative to the other spectral lines from the source because the light source is moving and introducing Doppler shifts.

 

[DeathDart]

In its first second of manifestation, did light travel at its constant speed, or was some acceleration required?

I don't know, I believe the time domain is very short. Phase locking in lasers suggests it is instantaneous.

 

[DeathDart]

I don't need a complete vacuum, what I need is a very weak gravitational field.

 

[DeathDart]

No

It isn't you have it backwards, times relative flows is dependant upon the invariant speed of light

No time dialation is lower

yes, it would effect the fine structure constant alpha. I asked a different version of this question many years ago

No, for light there is no time.

But it doesn't.

Light speed is dependent on time flow.

Time dilation is velocity and mass driven.

Time does not appear to affect internal processes within the atom, except for the time length before decay.

Alpha is maintained in all frames, and is true within faster time flow.

Empty space's infinite time flow is the Yin, to matter's and velocity's Time dilation, Yang. Megamind argument

Examples are the galactic velocity curves and the Supernova remnant glow when isotopic matter reaches low gravity, faster time flow space.

 

[Ziggurat]

I hope you don't make your living based on logic, unless you are a lawyer.

Because it was heading toward the light source the entire light spectrum is blue shifted. The wavelength of light absorbed by the atom doesn't change. (Time independent). As long as the framework is maintained, time changes nothing about HOW events occur, it does affect how often.

You are wrong. Change the flow of time, and you most definitely DO change the frequency and the wavelength.

The movement of the atom in the direction of the source does not change the frequency it will absorb.

Yes it will. The Doppler effect applies to both emission and absorption.

Time can change how often an atom does something, especially something time driven like radioactive decay. But it doesn't affect the product of that decay.

It most definitely does. A decay product such as a gamma ray has a frequency. That frequency acts as a clock. If time changes, the clock changes. So you're completely wrong.

Now if the source was moving either towards or away from the (Fixed) atom, its absorption band would still be the same frequency, but it would shift relative to the other spectral lines from the source because the light source is moving and introducing Doppler shifts.

I've told you multiple times now: the source doesn't HAVE spectral lines. The source is broadband. That's why blue shifting the source doesn't matter.

You came here with a theory which you haven't even fleshed out, but which (if true) would overturn an incredibly well tested theory central to modern physics. Your theory is based on nothing other than a hunch, and depend on numbers which are nothing but an unjustified coincidence. It was clear from the start that you didn't understand even rudimentary physics, so it was never credible that you were going to stumble upon a revolutionary theory by accident. Nonetheless, I played along, because hey, you might learn something. You were clueless, but you still seemed to be approaching the topic in good faith.

Your theory has now been disproven. This comes as no surprise to anyone. But this is where your good faith has evaporated. Instead of learning where you went wrong, or trying to discover why the Lyman alpha forest disproves your theory, you have responded with ad hominem attacks. Despite your monumental ignorance of the topic, it appears that you simply never even contemplated the possibility that you needed to learn something new. You have, in short, become the poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect. So I'm no longer interested in holding your hand as I walk you through where you went wrong. You aren't interested in learning, so the effort would be wasted. If I respond to smack down your nonsense in the future, it will not be for your benefit, but for any lurkers who, unlike you, might actually like to learn.

 

[Ziggurat]

Time does not appear to affect internal processes within the atom, except for the time length before decay.

What an incredibly stupid claim. Of course time affects internal processes within atoms. That pretty much defines a process: something which happens over time. Affect time, and you affect the process. A case in point is electron transitions within an atom. The characteristic radiation has a particular local frequency, which (obviously) depends on time. It acts as a clock. Not just figuratively or metaphorically either, but as in a literal clock. The best, most accurate clocks in the world, as a matter of fact. And what happens to those clocks when you affect time? Why, the clocks will run faster or slower correspondingly. That's a measured effect, not simply a theoretical one. And it's based on the internal processes of atoms. So you were disproven decades ago.