• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
The spin from "TrueJustice":
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/ylQwQ.png[/qimg]

Isn't this great for a laugh? HAHAHA.
I will admit, I was puzzled by what seemed to be blatant denial in this post. Of course , one should "never haloo until out of the woods", but today's Italian Umbria News Release headline and pic seems to me very victorious for the defense; worth juxtaposing to the TJMK headline: "it goes to the ruling" is so definitive and Sep 23-28 the closings and rebuttal only await, then the verdict:

Meredith, the Court says no to new valuations:
Closed hearing, it goes to the ruling

amanda.jpg


http://www.umbria24.it/meredith-la-...battimento-si-va-verso-la-sentenza/57786.html
 
Woke up this mornin',
thought of a guy and a gal on the other side of the world, who are fightin' to get outta prison for their unjust conviction of participating in a horrible, bloody murder.

Saw the video yesterday of the young gal, obviously tired from all of the stress, fallin' asleep for a brief moment in court. Too sad...

Checked into JREF a moment ago, and all I can say is WOW!

This photo posted above says it all, it's nice to see her smile!
Ya! Ya! Ya!


I'm stoked! :)
L8, RW
 
Last edited:
Premise: Amanda and Raffaele win the appeal.

Will they go free? If so, can Amanda return to 'her' country or will there be an appeal? If the prosecution appeals on the basis of having a retest of the DNA denied, can Amanda return to America?

I know very little about the Italian court system. I also know little about the American court system. Yet I know too much because they both make me sick.
 
Last edited:
Even so, I really can't see how she can continue to represent the Italian state in the trial after having made explicit allegations of bias against the judges mid-trial (if the remarks are properly translated and quoted).

I wouldn't mind betting that Comodi won't be in the courtroom come closing arguments in a couple of weeks. You can add that to my portion of the JREF group bet against that idiot who's pulling a 1% acquittal probability out of his backside versus a 99% probability of conviction with the same or different sentence :D

PS: Clouseau's "I asked ten people in the court area what they thought would happen" tweet is an embarrassment to her claims to be a decent journalist.
This will be very interesting to see if it her quote is taken seriously and results in any reprimand. My guess is that through the end of the trial it will be Comodi leading the way into further depths of the hell they are already in. They have all the time in the world to get around to deciding whether to prosecute what she said in addition investigating all the potentially illegal acts of the investigation and prosecution.

I predicted that Mignini would distance himself from the case once the DNA report was out, and he hasn't quite done that, but he's seems to have taken more of a back seat position. Costagliola seems non-existent these days and I don't blame him. It's not his mess and if Mignini and Comodi weren't breathing down his neck he probably would have moved to dismiss charges already.
 
Last edited:
Reading pmf today has been so great.

It must be hard to hear the fat lady singing over the sounds of eating crow.

How did i do groucho?
 
A UK solicitor has tried desperately to rationalise Comodi's incredible comments about court bias, as reported by Nick Pisa. The solicitor has tried to reason that Comodi was very specifically only referring to a denial of the prosecution's request to review the DNA evidence with an "re-re-test", when she made the damning comment: "The judge and his assistant are clearly against us".

Now, the solicitor bases his bogus opinion on a few things. Firstly, he accuses Pisa of chopping and repasting Comodi's remarks. Strangely, one of the apparent "reasons" the solicitor uses to support this bogus claim is a grammatical one: he claims that two different parts of Comodi's statement have been incorrectly jammed together because of a "dropped paragraph". Now, I don't know where this solicitor went to primary school. but it's fairly basic knowledge of English grammar that if you are writing a direct quotation which includes paragraph spacing, you repeat the quotation mark at the beginning of the new para, but don't put a quotation mark at the end of the preceding para. So Pisa's quote of Comodi's statement is actually correct as written if she spoke (or wrote) the two adjoining paragraphs that he's quoting here:

There is no grammatical requirement for a quotation mark at the end of Comodi's first paragraph, but the quotation mark is correctly inserted at the start of the second para. And ironically, the only scenario in which it would be correct to put a quotation mark at the end of the first para would be if the two paragraphs were not contiguous in the original statement. So we can in fact conclude that the first para and the second para were linked together in Comodi's original statement.

So, grammatical difficulties aside, the solicitor also uses another bogus and wholly invented "argument" to try to show that Comodi was only narrowly referring to the DNA retest when she talked about the judges being against the prosecutors. Some of it seems to be an argument from incredulity: the solicitor can't see how Comodi would be so stupid as to make a sweeping remark about court bias (I can though). And the solicitor's "argument" is essentially destroyed by two things: firstly, these comments were made before the prosecutors had even requested a re-test; and secondly, this is another part of Comodi as quoted by Pisa:

Here, Comodi is clearly saying that she's "not confident" that the forthcoming prosecution request for a re-test will be granted by the court. She doesn't say that the request definitely won't be granted in her opinion. And it's also then clear that she is justifying her opinion of "low confidence" in the granting of the prosecution request by stating that "it's very obvious this time that they (the judges) are against us". It's perfectly clear to any objective observer that "this time" means "this appeal trial", and not "the issue of the DNA re-test". After all, if it meant the latter, then this half of her sentence would be totally incompatible with the first half of her sentence in which Comodi expresses "low confidence" in the outcome, rather than the outcome being "very obvious".

Damn you're good! :)

It never would have occurred to me there was any need for separate paragraphs in the first place, Comodi's statements seem to better fit in one anyway. If one goes chopping paragraphs (or long-winded sentences) up as far as I'm concerned they better put in an ellipse (...) and do it only for clarity; if they dare change the substance then I know they're lying, they're guilty! :p

Incidentally, what does one do when a quoted piece starts or ends with a quote? I mean if you're actually going to play by the rules and use double-quote marks (") and not cheat like I do? So if I wanted to start a quote of someone else quoting Shakespeare or something, how does that work? I think it has something to do with a single quote mark (') around the whole thing? Like start it '"Shame, and eternal shame, nothing but shame!" exclaimed the Italian prosecutor.' Is that how it would work, with the single quote at the end too? Or is it the the other way around, with the Shakespeare in single quotes and my quoting of the passage in double quotes?

So unfortunately the solicitor has failed badly in a misguided and biased attempt to interpret Comodi's accusations of court bias in a far narrower and less-damaging (to Comodi and the prosecution) way. It's clear as day that Comodi's remarks were intended to suggest that Hellmann and the other judges were biased against the prosecution in the trial in general. And I for one look forward to her being seriously reprimanded for her ill-chosen remarks, together with a likely removal from the case. Shame, huh?

"Shame, and eternal shame, nothing but shame!" :p

What's most interesting to me is how she said "they"--the plural there is intriguing. I wonder if that means Hellmann and his little helper only, or the entirety of the laity as well in the other one? In other words she might think the 'jury is against them?' Either way they damn well ought to be against her, think of what they had to endure, another quote from Pisa's
Mail piece:

Comodi said: 'Aviello was a key witness for the defence in this appeal but he has now contacted me to retract everything he said so it is only right that we ask for him to be called back so he can testify again.'

This lady is crazy! A 'key witness?' He was a joke, and she was the punchline! We went from his entirely worthless testimony, to the 'revelation' of the sex-change conspiracy, by way of the one jealous of his prison job who saw conspiracies everywhere, through to Luxxor the famed transexual, and somehow Aviello wanted to involve Alessi, which is what he'd probably testify to, which is silly because they're in separate prisons and their testimony was unrelated.

So Comodi's 'complaints' amount to not liking the Judge's experts, who said what everyone could see with their own damn eyes, and not getting to parade forward every loon in an Italian prison to try to 'implicate' the Ministry of Justice defense attorney in a plot of entirely worthless testimony for a sex change.

Yeah, I'd say this pretty much sums it up.
 
Some people seem to be under the impression that Conti and Vecchiotti found DNA on the knife, but somehow decided not to test it. Novelli seems to have insinuated something like this in his testimony, and to have suggested that in his opinion, they could very well have conducted further tests (and failed to fulfill their mandate by not doing so).

The following is a quote from the concluding section of Conti and Vecchiotti's report [bold in original, italics added]:

- The quantification of the extracts obtained from the samples obtained from item 36 (knife) and item 165B (bra clasps), conducted via Real Time PCR, did not reveal
the presence of DNA.
- In view of the absence of DNA in the extracts that we obtained, with the agreement of the consultants for the parties [meaning Novelli! -k.], we did not proceed to the subsequent amplification step.

LOL. Thanks Komponisto. Comodi is such a lying liar.
 
There's obviously a bit to digest from the court's sessions over the last 3 days, but I think it would be interesting to offer our own versions of the closing arguments ahead of the actual closing arguments at the end of September.
It would be fascinating to see some from those-who-believe-in-guilt, as well as from the pro-acquital / pro-innocence posters.
I'm going to try one and post on JREF and IIP :)
 
I have a few questions about the process for the remainder of the trial.

1) Why is there a break right now and not after the closing arguments? I'm used to the American system where the case is "sent to the jury" after the closing arguments. Also, why is the break for a determined amount of time?

2) Are the judges/jury supposed to be reviewing the case for a set amount of time, or is it something more mundane like a scheduling issue for the courtroom?

3) Is the jury in this case comprised of a panel of judges? If so, have they been required to sit through the entire trial? Have they been allowed to ask questions, either to the witnesses or the presiding judge?

4) If the jury is indeed a panel of judges, how great is the opportunity for corruption?

great bunch of questions....

6 layjudges, but Judge Hellman and Judge Zanetti will direct them and are seated with them in the room, as I understand it. Unlike a US jury room where the jurors are left alone.

I dont understand the break except a chance for reviewing the information.
Whats concerning to me is this courtroom will rely on the Massei report and other info too. I assume, as it wasnt reviewed in the Appeal trial??

Closing- as I understand it...

The Defense is last up, so they have the chance to confront any accusations made in the prosecutions closing, and Maresca's closing.

I predict a main chant of Mignini and Maresca will be "all the other trials and all the other people and all the other judges and all the other experts found them guilty."

Maresca will exploit the Kerchers again most likely using them to bolster his credibility and self interest and use them as a "pro-guilt" entity. Its very powerful, imo.

But Judge Hellman seems to be well aware of how courtrooms are ran and to date doesnt seem to be afraid of being sued by Miginini.
 
great bunch of questions....

6 layjudges, but Judge Hellman and Judge Zanetti will direct them and are seated with them in the room, as I understand it. Unlike a US jury room where the jurors are left alone.

I dont understand the break except a chance for reviewing the information.
Whats concerning to me is this courtroom will rely on the Massei report and other info too. I assume, as it wasnt reviewed in the Appeal trial??

Closing- as I understand it...

The Defense is last up, so they have the chance to confront any accusations made in the prosecutions closing, and Maresca's closing.

I predict a main chant of Mignini and Maresca will be "all the other trials and all the other people and all the other judges and all the other experts found them guilty."

Maresca will exploit the Kerchers again most likely using them to bolster his credibility and self interest and use them as a "pro-guilt" entity. Its very powerful, imo.

But Judge Hellman seems to be well aware of how courtrooms are ran and to date doesnt seem to be afraid of being sued by Miginini.
But the prosecution offers a rebuttal after the defense closings, isn't that correct? As it was listed in the tenative schedule: prosecution closing, civil closing, Knox and Sollecito closings, rebuttal, verdict.And then do the jury and judges enter a deliberation period, of undetermined length? Just trying to get it clear in my mind...:confused:
 
Premise: Amanda and Raffaele win the appeal.

Will they go free? If so, can Amanda return to 'her' country or will there be an appeal? If the prosecution appeals on the basis of having a retest of the DNA denied, can Amanda return to America?

I know very little about the Italian court system. I also know little about the American court system. Yet I know too much because they both make me sick.


If they are acquitted in Hellmann's court, they will definitely be released from prison. Whether they are either put under some sort of house arrest or prevented from leaving Italy pending any sort of prosecution appeal to the Supreme Court is unclear. I suspect that they would be under some sort of licence until the case is finally over.

The prosecution will have no basis to refer Hellmann's refusal of the DNA "re-re-test" to the Supreme Court. This is clearly an acceptable and correct judicial ruling by Hellmann, taken after due consultation with all parties. If the prosecutors decide to appeal on those grounds, the appeal will be thrown out and will likely be deemed vexatious.

My guess is that unless there is a massive breach of law or process in Hellmann's court (which there won't be), the prosecution will not appeal an acquittal to the Supreme Court. To do so would simply look vindictive and vexatious, and would open the prosecutors up to massive criticism within and outside Italy. Besides, I think that many of the prosecutors might have legal/job problems of their own to deal with over the coming twelve months. I also guess that in the event of acquittals, the other trial processes against Knox and her parents would also be dropped - although I wouldn't be surprised if prosecutors continue with the action against the Sollecitos and the Telenorba executives over the crime scene video issue.
 
This will be very interesting to see if it her quote is taken seriously and results in any reprimand. My guess is that through the end of the trial it will be Comodi leading the way into further depths of the hell they are already in. They have all the time in the world to get around to deciding whether to prosecute what she said in addition investigating all the potentially illegal acts of the investigation and prosecution.

I predicted that Mignini would distance himself from the case once the DNA report was out, and he hasn't quite done that, but he's seems to have taken more of a back seat position. Costagliola seems non-existent these days and I don't blame him. It's not his mess and if Mignini and Comodi weren't breathing down his neck he probably would have moved to dismiss charges already.


I think that Hellmann and Zanetti might move to act against Comodi on the strength of these alleged remarks, and I therefore think it would be prudent for senior prosecution figures to remove Comodi from the trial before that happens. I believe it's unlikely that she'll be in court on the 23rd, if the quotes reported by Pisa are correct.
 
great bunch of questions....

6 layjudges, but Judge Hellman and Judge Zanetti will direct them and are seated with them in the room, as I understand it. Unlike a US jury room where the jurors are left alone.

I dont understand the break except a chance for reviewing the information.
Whats concerning to me is this courtroom will rely on the Massei report and other info too. I assume, as it wasnt reviewed in the Appeal trial??

Closing- as I understand it...

The Defense is last up, so they have the chance to confront any accusations made in the prosecutions closing, and Maresca's closing.

I predict a main chant of Mignini and Maresca will be "all the other trials and all the other people and all the other judges and all the other experts found them guilty."

Maresca will exploit the Kerchers again most likely using them to bolster his credibility and self interest and use them as a "pro-guilt" entity. Its very powerful, imo.

But Judge Hellman seems to be well aware of how courtrooms are ran and to date doesnt seem to be afraid of being sued by Miginini.


I have a suspicion that the break between now and the 23rd might have something to do with Bongiorno. There is a massive amount of activity going on at the moment in the Rome parliament, and Bongiorno is an important player in that process. I have a feeling that the two-week hiatus could be in order to allow Bongiorno to fulfill urgent parliamentary duties before returning for closing arguments.
 
But the prosecution offers a rebuttal after the defense closings, isn't that correct? As it was listed in the tenative schedule: prosecution closing, civil closing, Knox and Sollecito closings, rebuttal, verdict.And then do the jury and judges enter a deliberation period, of undetermined length? Just trying to get it clear in my mind...:confused:


Yes, the prosecutors have the last word. Literally, if not metaphorically, in this particular case :)
 
Reading pmf today has been so great.

It must be hard to hear the fat lady singing over the sounds of eating crow.

How did i do groucho?

Imagine what it'll be like when the verdict is announced!

They're already beginning to realize what's in the cards; you can watch it sinking in as they frantically rehearse their talking points to themselves. They're like supporters of a political party facing an imminent election loss.
 
HOLY SMOKE!

If Comodi really did say this:

"There is an ill wind blowing in this case. The judge and his assistant are clearly against us. I can see both Knox and Sollecito being freed which will be a shame as they are both involved."

and it's been accurately reported, then she's having a total and utter meltdown. This is contempt of court, pure and simple. She's questioning the court's integrity and neutrality, and she's also making wholly improper statements regarding the status of an acquittal.

If this is an accurate quote and translation (obviously she'd have said it in Italian), then I suspect that it might get Comodi in quite serious trouble. I hope so: she's a menace and a bully, and deserves her comeuppance.

Exactly, Mignini had the spotlight in the first trial but much of what he presented could have been rebutted successfully by a good defense attorney as you pointed out in your earlier post. Comodi has been much more devious and underhanded in her courtroom behavior. Lying about the time of events, trying to introduce false evidence on at least two occasions, and threatening a witness. In fact I would not be surprised if it comes to light that she is the prime mover behind the calumnia charges against AK and the slander charges against her parents. She is evil. Mignini is a sick RC nutjob.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom