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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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They have their own version of komponisto over on PMF who currently gives the odds like this:

Acquittal or reduction in sentence: less than 1%
Life sentence or 30 years in prison: 25%
Confirmation i.e. 21 to 25 years in prison: unstated but "the bulk". As there are no other options I think he or she is suggesting 74%.

It seems he or she doesn't put much stock in Comodi's opinion.
No, they don't....One more reason for this case to wrap. It is clear Hellman believes it to be over, one way or the other. From the 23-28 the prosecution, civil, knox, and sollecito will close. Then rebuttal and verdict by 30. It will soon be over...Then everyone can shut their mouths...;) PMF is spinning this as a victory for their side, and of course I would love to see them have to accept the opposite.
 
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say:
Comodi's reported opinion ?

And even if accurately reported before proffering it as significant, should we not keep it in tune the latest loud chorus here:

... It is not meaningful because it is only merely "what someone said"...

and the last verse from the resident superhuman mind readers here...

"what she really meant is...."

None of that matters. We already knew how Commodi felt because we are superhuman she's been acting lately like she just climbed the crazy tree. Yelling at witnesses, allowing Stefanoni to act the fool, getting sushed by the judge, challenging the veracity and reliability of the judge's own appointed witnesses. Real lawyers prosecuting serious cases that they think they might win don't do these things.

By the way, notice that Giancarlo Castagna/whathisname and even Mignini are AWOL from participation in this disaster.

Verstehen sie, Pilate-san?
 
A UK solicitor has tried desperately to rationalise Comodi's incredible comments about court bias, as reported by Nick Pisa. The solicitor has tried to reason that Comodi was very specifically only referring to a denial of the prosecution's request to review the DNA evidence with an "re-re-test", when she made the damning comment: "The judge and his assistant are clearly against us".

Now, the solicitor bases his bogus opinion on a few things. Firstly, he accuses Pisa of chopping and repasting Comodi's remarks. Strangely, one of the apparent "reasons" the solicitor uses to support this bogus claim is a grammatical one: he claims that two different parts of Comodi's statement have been incorrectly jammed together because of a "dropped paragraph". Now, I don't know where this solicitor went to primary school. but it's fairly basic knowledge of English grammar that if you are writing a direct quotation which includes paragraph spacing, you repeat the quotation mark at the beginning of the new para, but don't put a quotation mark at the end of the preceding para. So Pisa's quote of Comodi's statement is actually correct as written if she spoke (or wrote) the two adjoining paragraphs that he's quoting here:

Comodi said: "There is an ill wind blowing in this case.

"The judge and his assistant are clearly against us. I can see both Knox and Sollecito being freed which will be a shame as they are both involved."


There is no grammatical requirement for a quotation mark at the end of Comodi's first paragraph, but the quotation mark is correctly inserted at the start of the second para. And ironically, the only scenario in which it would be correct to put a quotation mark at the end of the first para would be if the two paragraphs were not contiguous in the original statement. So we can in fact conclude that the first para and the second para were linked together in Comodi's original statement.

So, grammatical difficulties aside, the solicitor also uses another bogus and wholly invented "argument" to try to show that Comodi was only narrowly referring to the DNA retest when she talked about the judges being against the prosecutors. Some of it seems to be an argument from incredulity: the solicitor can't see how Comodi would be so stupid as to make a sweeping remark about court bias (I can though). And the solicitor's "argument" is essentially destroyed by two things: firstly, these comments were made before the prosecutors had even requested a re-test; and secondly, this is another part of Comodi as quoted by Pisa:

Comodi added: 'We are going to ask for a second review of the evidence. There are to many aspects that are incomplete and we believe the experts are wrong so we want another review.

'This could take another sixty days but I'm not confident that the judge will grant the prosecution request - it's very obvious this time that they are against us.'


Here, Comodi is clearly saying that she's "not confident" that the forthcoming prosecution request for a re-test will be granted by the court. She doesn't say that the request definitely won't be granted in her opinion. And it's also then clear that she is justifying her opinion of "low confidence" in the granting of the prosecution request by stating that "it's very obvious this time that they (the judges) are against us". It's perfectly clear to any objective observer that "this time" means "this appeal trial", and not "the issue of the DNA re-test". After all, if it meant the latter, then this half of her sentence would be totally incompatible with the first half of her sentence in which Comodi expresses "low confidence" in the outcome, rather than the outcome being "very obvious".

So unfortunately the solicitor has failed badly in a misguided and biased attempt to interpret Comodi's accusations of court bias in a far narrower and less-damaging (to Comodi and the prosecution) way. It's clear as day that Comodi's remarks were intended to suggest that Hellmann and the other judges were biased against the prosecution in the trial in general. And I for one look forward to her being seriously reprimanded for her ill-chosen remarks, together with a likely removal from the case. Shame, huh?
 
Some people seem to be under the impression that Conti and Vecchiotti found DNA on the knife, but somehow decided not to test it. Novelli seems to have insinuated something like this in his testimony, and to have suggested that in his opinion, they could very well have conducted further tests (and failed to fulfill their mandate by not doing so).

The following is a quote from the concluding section of Conti and Vecchiotti's report [bold in original, italics added]:

- The quantification of the extracts obtained from the samples obtained from item 36 (knife) and item 165B (bra clasps), conducted via Real Time PCR, did not reveal
the presence of DNA
.
- In view of the absence of DNA in the extracts that we obtained, with the agreement of the consultants for the parties [meaning Novelli! -k.], we did not proceed to the subsequent amplification step.
 
I doubt that'll happen. This is Italy, after all.


Even so, I really can't see how she can continue to represent the Italian state in the trial after having made explicit allegations of bias against the judges mid-trial (if the remarks are properly translated and quoted).

I wouldn't mind betting that Comodi won't be in the courtroom come closing arguments in a couple of weeks. You can add that to my portion of the JREF group bet against that idiot who's pulling a 1% acquittal probability out of his backside versus a 99% probability of conviction with the same or different sentence :D

PS: Clouseau's "I asked ten people in the court area what they thought would happen" tweet is an embarrassment to her claims to be a decent journalist.
 
Let's see . . . closings to commence on Sept. 23, so that means that in approximately 14 days we should see the next letter from the Kerchers mischaracterizing the evidence and attempting to prejudice the defendants. Or, maybe they will attempt the coup de grace and appear in court to remind the judge about Amanda's DNA in her bathroom and the bloody footprints.
 
From Italy, Umbria News Release Sep 7:


amanda.jpg


Meredith, the Court says no to new valuations:
Closed hearing, it goes to the ruling

http://www.umbria24.it/meredith-la-...battimento-si-va-verso-la-sentenza/57786.html
 
Even so, I really can't see how she can continue to represent the Italian state in the trial after having made explicit allegations of bias against the judges mid-trial (if the remarks are properly translated and quoted).

I wouldn't mind betting that Comodi won't be in the courtroom come closing arguments in a couple of weeks. You can add that to my portion of the JREF group bet against that idiot who's pulling a 1% acquittal probability out of his backside versus a 99% probability of conviction with the same or different sentence :D

PS: Clouseau's "I asked ten people in the court area what they thought would happen" tweet is an embarrassment to her claims to be a decent journalist.

LJ--Got to disagree with you there. I'll bet that a decision to remove would have to be made by Giancarlo, and there is no way that he or anyone else in their right mind would take this case from her. Therefore she stays.
 
Some people seem to be under the impression that Conti and Vecchiotti found DNA on the knife, but somehow decided not to test it. Novelli seems to have insinuated something like this in his testimony, and to have suggested that in his opinion, they could very well have conducted further tests (and failed to fulfill their mandate by not doing so).

The following is a quote from the concluding section of Conti and Vecchiotti's report [bold in original, italics added]:


Exactly correct. And the attempts to argue otherwise simply serve to expose ignorance and bias amongst certain "experts" and commentators alike.

In addition, Conti and Vecchiotti stated unequivocally that no blood was present on the knife. This means that even if some as-yet-undeveloped ultra-sensitive DNA test were to be developed, it's almost certain that none of Meredith's DNA related her stab wounds would ever be found. In human blood, there are around 800-1000 red blood cells (which contain no DNA) for every single white blood cell (which is DNA-containing). Presumptive blood tests can detect as few as 20-30 red blood cells, so if these tests come back negative, it's almost certain that there are no white cells present, and therefore no DNA present either.
 
Some people seem to be under the impression that Conti and Vecchiotti found DNA on the knife, but somehow decided not to test it. Novelli seems to have insinuated something like this in his testimony, and to have suggested that in his opinion, they could very well have conducted further tests (and failed to fulfill their mandate by not doing so).

The following is a quote from the concluding section of Conti and Vecchiotti's report [bold in original, italics added]:

I had wondered about the consultants on either side voicing their opinions/requests during the experts' examination. Obviously, this would have been the time to have done so (to have it written in the report) along with filing any requests or objections in court.

I imagine any objections, comments, requests, etc. were included in the report (either in the 145+ page document or as an attachment).
 
LJ--Got to disagree with you there. I'll bet that a decision to remove would have to be made by Giancarlo, and there is no way that he or anyone else in their right mind would take this case from her. Therefore she stays.


Oh I think that either somebody much higher up the chain of prosecutors in Perugia/Umbria might be making that decision, or that Hellmann's court might "make the decision for her".

(I presume you're referring to the lead prosecutor in the appeal trial, Giancarlo Costagliola)
 
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say:
Comodi's reported opinion ?

And even if accurately reported before proffering it as significant, should we not keep it in tune the latest loud chorus here:

... It is not meaningful because it is only merely "what someone said"...

and the last verse from the resident superhuman mind readers here...

......"what she really meant is...."

It's over friend.

Done.

Finished.
 
Yes Hellman is staying with his experts. The knife is gone, the bra clasp gone as far as Hellman is concerned. Curatolo? I'm not sure what effect that witness had on Hellman.

I wonder what angle the lawyers will bring to closing?

Will they play the same song, as in Masseis court (ignoring the C&V) or will they come in relying on "doubt they are fully innocent"....maybe keeping the college students under the suspicious eye....kind of a Edgardo Giobbi Factor.

The Edgardo Giobbi Factor relys on this mentality, Behavior and Responses.

hmmm? What will the closing be, the defense is obvious, but the Prosecution will have to regroup for a big performance of , I guess, creating enough doubt.
 
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All the haggling about further testing concerned the knife -- not the bra clasp.

To me that means the message about Stef's slipshod collection procedures got through. They've given up on the bra clasp.

I hope Hellman knows the facts about the knife and the absurdity of further testing. It's always been the iffiest evidence.

Nina Burleigh mentions that when the knife was collected it was packaged twice by a cop who'd spent the morning at the Meredith's house.

I think the bra clasp is out because the DNA could be matched "to anyone in the courtroom" according to the expert.

Stef's explanation that both A and R's DNA would have to be there for contamination to have occurred because both of their DNAs were on the cigarette butt - which ignored the question of the bad read of the DNA (something the defense said all along) and idiotically posited that the only DNA of Raf in the whole cottage was found by the crack scientific police team.
 
Yes Hellman is staying with his experts. The knife is gone, the bra clasp gone as far as Hellman is concerned. Curatolo? I'm not sure what effect that witness had on Hellman.

I wonder what angle the lawyers will bring to closing?

Will they play the same song, as in Masseis court (ignoring the C&V) or will they come in relying on "doubt they are fully innocent"....maybe keeping the college students under the suspicious eye....kind of a Edgardo Giobbi Factor.

The Edgardo Giobbi Factor relys on this mentality, Behavior and Responses.

hmmm? What will the closing be, the defense is obvious, but the Prosecution will have to regroup for a big performance of , I guess, creating enough doubt.

The spin from "TrueJustice":
ylQwQ.png


Isn't this great for a laugh? HAHAHA.
 
I have a few questions about the process for the remainder of the trial.

1) Why is there a break right now and not after the closing arguments? I'm used to the American system where the case is "sent to the jury" after the closing arguments. Also, why is the break for a determined amount of time?

2) Are the judges/jury supposed to be reviewing the case for a set amount of time, or is it something more mundane like a scheduling issue for the courtroom?

3) Is the jury in this case comprised of a panel of judges? If so, have they been required to sit through the entire trial? Have they been allowed to ask questions, either to the witnesses or the presiding judge?

4) If the jury is indeed a panel of judges, how great is the opportunity for corruption?
 
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