Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't it well known the clasp should have been stored in a sealed PAPER bag? Wasn't the use of a plastic bag an obvious error?
 
It seems that those who believe in guilt put all of their effort into the molehils, and completely overlook the mountains. Just my opinion.
 
halides1 said:
Katody Matrass,

Nick Cohen wrote about the Birmingham Six, "Before his Lordship's court were the six men who had been convicted of the Birmingham pub bombings. They alleged that the West Midlands police had beaten them up, and were suing for damages. Denning realised that accepting the police had beaten them up meant accepting that the police had beaten false confessions out of them, which meant accepting that the police had framed innocent men for one of the worst IRA atrocities on the British mainland. 'This,' said Denning as he dismissed the case, 'is such an appalling vista that every sensible person in the land would say, "It cannot be right these actions should go any further."' The men spent 10 more years in jail before the grudging courts accepted that they weren't guilty after all."

It may have been Darat who first quoted Lord Denning in one of the Knox threads last February, but I did not comment upon it at the time. I hope that people would see a not guilty verdict as saying something positive about the Italian system, and I also hope that this case may suggest areas where the system could be tweaked, especially in the area of forensic discovery. These are hopes, rather than expectations.
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That is one of the virtues of the Italian system, it does exonerate people on appeal regularly, as Dr. Hampikian also noted something to the effect of 'the Italians are showing us how to conduct an appeal.' Reading this thread and other research about the numerous miscarriages of justice it seems those countries like the US, UK and Germany whose courts don't seem to initially convict as many innocent people are utterly intransigent if they do, it taking years or decades to pry innocents out of their cold dead hands no matter what new evidence emerges.
 
pilot padron said:
This latest blog from Sfarzo is just that; another blog.
Unrestrained and encumbered by the straightforward requirements for factual reporting, Sfarzo blogs out his usual few feeble paragraphs filled with personal opinions, unsupported off the wall conclusions, snark, obvious errors, and simpleton slapstick about the refrigerator.
(Of course, due to recent legal entanglements, the snark is now much less vicious)

EXAMPLES

1) Sfarzo headlines a picture of Doctor Stefanoni with this:
STEFANONI’S SELF DEFENSE, DAY 1,

and captions it with this:
"Then it was the time of Stefanoni’s self-defense, under the friendly questions coming from Comodi."

Small problem, blogger Sfarzo:
That particular picture sandwiched between your two misleading accompanying statements was definitely taken several months ago.
As such, it has absolutely no connection whatsoever to the way you present/spin it in your blog.

2) And his erroneous employment of that big word 'capacious' was funnier to me than his refrigerator attempts.
How 'capacious' would it have to be, Sfarzo to hold a couple small miniscule samples...in USA manufactured plastic ??
But maybe he was taking a correspondence course in communications engineering and saw that big word along with the equally big but equally not applicable 'marmalade'.

But again a blog is a report not.

Color me unimpressed.
Concluding, I for obvious reasons will withold any echo to your rather fawning closing "well done, Frank"

BTW:
All those who endlessly express such umbrage and moral outrage in their arguments here about some guilters using 'pen' names of course are fully aware of Sfarzo's shameless use of same.
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So, what's your prediction for the outcome of the appeal?
 
pilot padron said:
BTW:
All those who endlessly express such umbrage and moral outrage in their arguments here about some guilters using 'pen' names of course are fully aware of Sfarzo's shameless use of same.
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The off and on discussion about who does and doesn't use their real name to post is one of the strangest things about the debate of this case. I repeatedly see people bring up that people post under "pen" names, and most of the time the people bringing it up are posting under a name other than their given name!! In fact, as far as I know almost everyone posting about this case is using a made up name (with a couple of fairly obvious exceptions).

I'd rather focus on the ideas presented than whatever the name is that the person uses.
 
negative controls are just electropherograms

christianahannah said:
This was from the July 30, 2011 hearing? Do you have the quote from Comodi (or even better yet, the July 30 hearing transcript :)). Would Stefanoni write down a negative control or is that a function done by the machine?

Two things I have found interesting while reading (and that is if they are recorded correctly by media):

Stefanoni stating that the experts could have used a newer, better kit to analyze the traces on the knife: http://www.grr.rai.it/dl/grr/notizi...5-ad7c-47ca-a37e-319bcdfae264.html?refresh_ce and the fact there are documentation of negative controls concerning the knife and bra clasp: http://www.localport.it/eventi/notizie/notizie_espansaN.asp?N=78583

Does anyone know what a document of a negative control would look like?
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christianahannah,

A negative control should look like any other electropherogram, except it should not have peaks. I think RoseMontague posted a link that had some examples, possibly at this site. It might take some hunting around.
 
Poppy1016 said:
It seems that those who believe in guilt put all of their effort into the molehils, and completely overlook the mountains. Just my opinion.
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It's called (by some people) "hijacking" the debate...

In court, it's sometimes called (unofficially of course) going on a "fishing expedition".
 
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Poppy1016 said:
Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't it well known the clasp should have been stored in a sealed PAPER bag? Wasn't the use of a plastic bag an obvious error?
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You are correct. The Italian forensics police even have these hybrid envelope-bags that seem designed for that purpose. I saw them being used in the first crime scene video, looked like the perfect size for the clasp too.
 
Molehills to pile on about

Poppy1016 said:
Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't it well known the clasp should have been stored in a sealed PAPER bag? Wasn't the use of a plastic bag an obvious error?
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No, You are mistaken:
1) It was not "well known".
2) It was not an "'obvious error".

If perhaps you have an opportunity to avail yourself of any of the actual testimony today, you might inform yourself and your tag team pile on pals of that small "molehill"therein that disclosed the fact that the plastic container is in fact the latest in forensic technology manufactured and employed by and in the USA to replace the older obsolete paper

Molehill indeed
 
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Dougm said:
The off and on discussion about who does and doesn't use their real name to post is one of the strangest things about the debate of this case. I repeatedly see people bring up that people post under "pen" names, and most of the time the people bringing it up are posting under a name other than their given name!! In fact, as far as I know almost everyone posting about this case is using a made up name (with a couple of fairly obvious exceptions).

I'd rather focus on the ideas presented than whatever the name is that the person uses.
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The irony is one of the people who complains the most about these pen names has about 4 different screen names he uses to spew blather in comment sections throughout the galaxy. Not that there's anything wrong with that!:)
 
I was wondering why there was so much discussion about how the PLASTIC bag was stored. Too funny.
 
pilot padron said:
No, You are mistaken:
1) It was not "well known".
2) It was not an "'obvious error".

If perhaps you have an opportunity to avail yourself of any of the testimony today, you might educate yourself of that small "molehill"therein that disclosed the fact that the plastic container is in fact the latest in forensic technology manufactured and employed by and in the USA to replace the older obsolete paper

Molehill indeed
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Than why did the bra clasp rust?
 
Hi Pilot,
I will definitey make another effort to educate myself on this issue, and if I'm mistaken I will gladly admit that you were correct and I was mistaken.
 
LCN and contamination

RoseMontague said:
LCN DNA is not just about detecting lower amounts, it is a process. The lower amount you can find the more the potential for contamination. LCN processes were not observed in the gathering or testing of evidence, nor were even standard processes observed for normal DNA testing.

You should read what Greggy posted about LCN at PMF today.
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RoseMontague,

Professor Dan Krane responded to a question of mine on this subject, “There is absolutely no question but that contamination is a much greater problem in LCN cases than conventional DNA testing. The reasons that it is a greater problem are both because it is easier to detect contaminants ([Sara] Gino's point) and because it is easier to transfer (and to transfer without knowing) smaller amounts of DNA than larger amounts of DNA.”
 
pilot padron said:
No, You are mistaken:
1) It was not "well known".
2) It was not an "'obvious error".

If perhaps you have an opportunity to avail yourself of any of the actual testimony today, you might inform yourself and your tag team pile on pals of that small "molehill"therein that disclosed the fact that the plastic container is in fact the latest in forensic technology manufactured and employed by and in the USA to replace the older obsolete paper

Molehill indeed
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How do you know this? Just because Stefanoni said so? Is there any documentation that she even said that? Is your position that Stef used plastic bags back in 2007, when that was not the accepted method, but since then, the DNA community has caught up with her brilliant anticipation of what would become the standard in 2011?? :jaw-dropp
 
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