Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[Patrick1000]

Lrrr

A very specialised one.

Last comment abaddon and others. From the HB side, I would imagine many if not most of us acknowledge a mirror, a LRRR up there. Those of us that do believe there is one would suggest it is not necessarily the one you see pictures of in the space books. Also, I believe an unmanned craft brought it to 00 41 145 north and 23 26 00 east.

If Wampler is correct, and that is an "IF", but an if that is figureoutable, then the thing simply cannot be passive and must have a mechanism whereby it is "turned off and on". Not hard to imagine actually.

Anyway, that is way way way too much forum for me guys. I won't be back for a while. But thanks, was a good time.

 

[Patrick1000]

Diarrhea, did somebody say diarrhea!?

I gave up trying to get an answer out of this guy pages ago. I wish we had an "answer the question" rule at JREF like they do over at Apollo Hoax -- it might prevent our forum being hijacked by the insane as a place to post verbal diarrhea with no accountability.

We'll get back to the Borman diarrhea soon enough!

 

[rambaldi]

Let's leave it. So far, none of us have come up with anything for certain. I have ideas. I imagine nomuse does as well.

But his ideas make sense, fit the facts etc while your's don't.

 

[Patrick1000]

No, you are wrong there

But his ideas make sense, fit the facts etc while your's don't.

Actually nomuse hasn't returned since I gave him the challenge. i imagine he is hard at work on it. Let's see what he comes up with. the jury is out.

 

[tsig]

I HAVE BEEN STUDYING UP ON THE SUBJECT AND I UNDERSTAND THE POINT. KEEP AT IT NOMUSE IT GETS SCARIER BY THE MINUTE. Think of satellite laser ranging, the moon is just another "satellite".

Keep studying. You're about 40 years behind some of us.

 

[rambaldi]

I won't be back for a while. But thanks, was a good time.

We'll get back to the Borman diarrhea soon enough!

No comment...

 

[Erock]

My claim is that we don't know for sure what coordinates were given to Lick Observatory. I have seen the Remington Stone numbers, Alley says in one place the coordinates were the best trajectory coordinates I believe from the flight processor which is essentially MSFN data.

Reagrdless what they were exactly.........

Oh really!?

But you said........

So if Mr. Stone got the EXACT! Tranquility Base coordinates on the evening of 07/20/1969; 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east, why was poor H. David Reed so confused on the morning of 07/21/1969. Didn't anyone think to tell him the coordinates it would seem "some guy" had inside NASA. A quote from Reed the Apollo program's most talented trajectory officer/FIDO;

So many hours before all of this goes on with Reed, the scientists at Lick Observatory are given Tranquility Base's exact coordinates Matt. Armstrong is actually on the moon! and they get they coordinates, way way way before Reed figures them out.

Not just any coordinates Matt, the Lick scientists get 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east.

They told the Lick Observatory people about the coordinates to that degree of precision before the FIDO figured out where the Eagle was, and while most of the help in Houston thought no one had any real sense as to where the astronauts were.

And the people at Lick Observatory had these numbers while Reed was still sleeping!

The critical point here to keep in mind Matt is the narrative's glaring incoherence. Here we have Lick observatory being given Eagle' precise location, the EXACT! location of Tranquility base hours before Reed even comes on duty. Clearly, the site of the laser reflector was known before hand, before the pretended Eagle landing, as Armstrong had it not, and "officially" Houston had it not.

So we have the scientists at Lick Observatory receiving Tranquility Base's precise coordinates when every one at Mission Control INCLUDING REED! in Houston is in the dark as regards these very same Eagle landing coordinates. AND it is not until 08/01/1969 that those coordinates are confirmed as the site of Eagle's landing, 10 or 11 days after the Eagle was said to have touched down. So the smartest FIDO/tracking calculator on the planet, H. David Reed, did not know information, EXTRAORDINARILY CRITICAL AND IMPORTANT INFORMATION, regarding Eagle's coordinates that was passed along to the Lick scientists well before he even came on duty. Why wasn't Reed given the coordinates? Lick Observatory itself did not know these to be the "correct" coordinates of Tranquility Base until successful LRRR targeting on 08/01/1969. From this insane SCRIPT, we rightly conclude there was foreknowledge on the part of an "elite" group/person on the fraud's inside, passing the coordinates to Lick as all would expect, but keeping them from Reed to perpetuate the game. Remember, only a very small number of people in a relative sense know this is fake.

Yet they had them all along! Someone gave them, the very same exact coordinates that proved to be the location of the precise location of the Eagle, to the Lick Observatory staff many hours before Reed even came on duty.

If a NASA principal tells the people at Lick Observatory the precise coordinates of Tranquility Base during the evening of 07/20/1969 and withhold this information from the very man who needs it most, FIDO H. David Reed, we know Apollo must be bogus. How can it be otherwise?

for one, we could get Remington Stone from the Lick Observatory together with David Reed from Mission Control and see if THEY could make sense of the fact that Stone, the laser operator, knew what Reed, the FIDO, needed to know but didn't, or better said, had to figure out for himself. that would be a grand start.

I say, how can the Apollo 11 story as told be real if the above is true AND many hours before Reed even arrived on duty at Mission Control, the scientists at Lick Observatory targeting the LRRR were told the coordinates of Tranquility Base were 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east? The precise coordinates of Tranquility Base as it would turn out.

Your theory is completely busted.

Its whole premise was that the Eagle final coordinates were passed to LICK before REED calculated them. The science report indicates exactly what was told to you numerous times!

The coordinates were given on the 21st (incorrectly with Texas drawl) and corrected morning of the 22nd. You were asked dozens of times to show where you your proof was of what coordinates were given, and you continually ignored the questions. You kept referring to an interview, chopped up by questions and ASSUMED he meant the coordinates on the 20th and the misheard 15/50 bit was done on the 20th.

WRONG.

Now, you move the goalposts to stars and lasers viewed ON THE MOON.

NEXT.

 

[twinstead]

The evidence that the moon landings happened as advertised is immense and supported by the world's scientific communities. Patrick1000 is just some random guy on the internet.

Hmmmm. Whom to believe. Whom to believe...

 

[Patrick1000]

Ok big shot explain it.

Keep studying. You're about 40 years behind some of us.

OK, you made a big claim there. Tell us why ranging the moon would help the pentagon boys target Moscow. Show me up. Here is your chance. you said it. You are 40 years ahead of me, and you said it with respect to this very difficult issue. so lets see what you have got hot shot.

 

[tsig]

I find it rather strange that I make a serious point by quoting a full professor of Astronomy, Joseph Miller, who participated directly in the LRRR experiments and informs us that successful LRRR targeting could and would be used by the Russians to better locate our own cities and other targets, and you criticize ME.

If you can show me Miller is WRONG nomuse, fine. I will accept the point. So far, you have not been able to do that. AND, I do not believe you can.

that said, I know you are capable, perhaps Miller was wrong. For the time being, I ask you for once, to leave me personally out of this and simply look at the man's argument, Miller's argument, and show me where his logic breaks down. I had to spend a fair amount of time looking into this to see what it was all about.

Think about it nomuse. Why did the Russians never successfully target, back then anyway, our LRRR? If it was passive, they would have.

Try and debunk this, plain and simple. Argue the point and leave me out of it. Miller vs you, let's see what you have got.

Odd, I looked at the username on this post and it said Patrick not Miller.

 

[GlennB]

I find it rather strange that I make a serious point by quoting a full professor of Astronomy, Joseph Miller, who participated directly in the LRRR experiments and informs us that successful LRRR targeting could and would be used by the Russians to better locate our own cities and other targets, and you criticize ME.

I'd go for Google Earth rather than some namby-pamby laser thingies.

 

[tsig]

Sorry nomuse. You probably already picked this up. From the University of Santa Cruz article, Joseph Miller was the one answering the reporters' questions and not being able to say what the coordinates were. It was Professor Wampler that made the statement about the Russians wanting to know the Earth-moon distance for improved targeting of our cities. Of course it doesn't change the substance of my challenge to you. Simply a different guy. I got them mixed up I think because both have Joseph as a first name.

We had to go to the moon to find out where Soviet cities were?

ICBM's were around long before we landed on the Moon.

 

[excaza]

nvm

 

[tsig]

Please pause and think there what Professor Wampler's claim is saying abaddon. You risk ever so much, the entire Apollo war, if you stake the program's authenticity upon the fragile hope that this incredibly bright man is wrong on this point.

Perhaps first you should show us where Professor Wampler's logic/reaoning has failed him. His colleague, Professor Miller, spoke with reporters on the evening of 07/20/1969 and was not allowed to disclose the coordinates of the LRRR for this very reason. 2 world class astronomers, and you challenge them? Fine, let us see what you have abaddon.

Much hangs in the balance now. The stakes indeed have become ASTRONOMICAL, Apollo's authenticity is at risk. It would seem if Joseph Wampler is correct in his reasoning, Apollo indeed is fraudulent. and all of this from a University of Santa Cruz interview with one little ol' scientist who was present at Lick Observatory that evening. I must say this has been a dramatic evening for me as well. And now mid day.

So if you please abaddon, your counter to Joseph Wampler's statement there. We quite literally are on the edge of our seats , waiting for your reply.

And as I said to nomuse, for once, cut the personal stuff. Debunk Wampler if you can, and if you do, I shall admit you are correct, and move on. If you cannot show Professor Wampler to be wrong in this regard, I will claim Apollo fraudulent, yet again, yet with this to add as more evidence. And with that, we shall have the fraud's elusive MOTIVATION finally nailed down. Planting LRRRs to help accurately target high value Russian military and civilian sites.

It really does seem to fit so well now abaddon. as i said, there is much hanging in the balance. Let us see what you have. your colleagues are counting on you.

You seem to live a life of excitement, wonderment and new discoveries every day but so do babies.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Yes I teased you guys and it was silly and unnecessary. Yes I am a mathematician. Yes I am a physician. So no I did not "pad my resume".

I don't believe you and neither does anyone else. PM me something to prove it and maybe I'll believe it, but until then you are, in my mind, a 16 year old boy with half a clue.

 

[tsig]

So abaddon, can you show me they were bouncing photons off the Apollo 11 LRRR way back in 1969, 1970, and so on? I doubt it. I believe we will find this to not be the case. It is researchable. we will find restricted access in those days and that will mean, military use and Apollo fraud to plant them there. We shall see. It will be interesting. Again , the point is, if Wampler is correct, there is zero chance we would put a passive device up there. So Apollo authenticity is utterly dependent on Wampler being wrong about the military applications of LRRR ranging. If Wampler is correct, WE MUST FIND THE LRRR TO NOT BE PASSIVE. ITS ACCESS WILL HAVE BEEN RESTRICTED.

Must be one helluva battery to last this long. Maybe an extension cord?

 

[332nd]

So... The claim now is we put reflectors on the moon to target USSR cities & said reflectors can be turned on & off so said commies can't use them against us...

Why wouldn't the Soviets put their own reflectors up there?

 

[tsig]

I am not going to make any statements without support. We can email the Lick Observatory and McDonald Observatory as well and simply ask them if/how/under what circumstances others did or did not access the LRRR. It may even be in some of the papers I have. If we find nothing, then we can assume it is/was passive. My point is that if Wampler turns out to be correct, it is very unlikely that thye LRRR was a passive device in 1969, otherwise it could be used tio range an ICBM against us. we simply would not have placed it under those circumstances. So Wampler being right or wrong is huge here. More so for your side I think. If he is correct, the Apollo 11 LRRR must be a piece of military hardware, at least part time.

We? You got a mouse in your pocket or is that the royal we?

 

[abaddon]

So... The claim now is we put reflectors on the moon to target USSR cities & said reflectors can be turned on & off so said commies can't use them against us...

Why wouldn't the Soviets put their own reflectors up there?

They put up two of their own, and promptly lost one.

The lost one was only recently found.

 

[drewid]

OK, you made a big claim there. Tell us why ranging the moon would help the pentagon boys target Moscow. Show me up. Here is your chance. you said it. You are 40 years ahead of me, and you said it with respect to this very difficult issue. so lets see what you have got hot shot.

You're more like 2000 years behind. I'm sure Eratosthenes or Pythagoras could manage it.