Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[Oji]

Every move one makes with lasers in play is potentially disaterous. You can be targeted by ANYONE and challenged in a sense by being forced to take, or not take a picture of that laser.

But why would anyone do that? Especially as, well, they didn't.

You repeatedly seem to make up hypothetical behavior to explain why people on the moon behave exactly like people on the moon would.

 

[Patrick1000]

You Are correct frenat

You don't know what the word proof means do you?

You are absolutely correct frenat. It is too strong a term to use, "proof". I agree and stand corrected.

I claim my explanation is better than any one else's, as no one else has produced one so far, that is not hard at this point, though that of course means something in and of itself, another solution may not be available, possible. Fraudulent telemetry may well be a simple fact and this is why no other solutions have been offered.

So until another solution is submitted to the forum for consideration in explanation of the coordinate discrepancies between Reed the FIDO's accounting and the Mission Report's accounting, fraudulent telemetry is the best/preffered explanation seen so far.

Details of the analysis coming to this conclusion of fraudulent telemetry can be found in post 1178 as well as the post discussing the verification/corroboration of Reed's story by way of the voice transcript. In particular the post discussing the voice transcript segment featuring the entry where we see the rendezvous radar was indeed turned on one revolution early to obtain data so that a solution could be provided for the launch.

 

[dafydd]

Not amorphous, very simple. See my previous post, have a shot at debunking that.

No need to,you debunk yourself at every turn. How's the weather in the part of the world that your globetrotting has taken you to today?

 

[Patrick1000]

Maybe but....

Maybe that is because they couldn't see it. Which would seem to fit the facts better.

Maybe , but your explanation doesn't also tell us why the Eagle's landing coordinates were not known. why the Eagle was lost. so my explanation is better as it is more comprehensive and explains the details of the Apollo 11 Mission Narrative as everyone has come to know them. From Chaikin to Armstrong, the LOST BIRD THEME is a prominant feature of all official and unoffical versions of the Apollo 11 Mission story.

If one assumes they are not in cislunar space, the whole thing makes sense. If you assume they really were in cislunar space , but simply did not see the laser, then the story about the H. David Reed/Mission Report contradiction makes no sense.

The Apollo 11 Mission tale only makes any kind of sense if one assumes it is a fraudulent mission. They intentionally "hide the bird" because a known Eagle location translates to laser targeting vulnerability/localization. They "deny stars" as this is a part of laser avoidance.

My explanation is better because it explains everything. Yours doesn't explain coordinate confusion or starlight phobia.

 

[Kiwi9]

Patrick1000

You keep on and on and on avoiding my question about what coordinates Lick used as stated in the Preliminary Science Report. Such avoidance would not be tolerated on two of the forums from which you and your socks have been banned.

Please have the courtesy to answer the question. It will only take you a minute or two to find the answer and I have repeatedly told you where to find it.

Also, you go on and on and on and on about the coordinates Reed was given differing by a large amount from the official version in the Mission Report, yet I don't ever recall you stating exactly what those figures are. Please do forgive me if I have simply missed them in your ridiculously wordy posts, and point out where they are, but if I haven't missed them, then please post them so we can actually say something about them, because until you give them to us, we can't say anything and we can't even judge if what you say about Reed is accurate or not.

There is plenty of evidence that the coordinates in the Mission Report are accurate, and that is why they are there. Reed appears to be the only one who disagrees, but you don't appear to have given us the figures he was given. Please do.

It is immaterial whether a reporter sent a video tape from Lick to some other destination, and what his name was. I too doubt the veracity of that. But what is material, is that apparently flashes in a telescope view of the moon from Lick were broadcast live on American TV and apparently Walter Cronkite commented on them. And it is that report that the Capcom told Mike Collins about. But it was a mistake -- a misinterpretation that the flashes were returns from the LRRR.

I'm not a good one to ask about this because I'm a New Zealander and did not watch that same broadcast on TV because New Zealand had no live satellite connection to overseas at the time. But it would be good if more could be found about exactly what was seen on American TV.

However, the point remains. Lick had not got a return from the LRR at the time stated, and you, yourself, have that information, so it is dishonest of you to be pushing what is clearly a simple error.

Finally, please tell us what the correct Lunney quote was. You've avoided that one too.

 

[Patrick1000]

Patrick1000

You keep on and on and on avoiding my question about what coordinates Lick used as stated in the Preliminary Science Report. Such avoidance would not be tolerated on two of the forums from which you and your socks have been banned.

Please have the courtesy to answer the question. It will only take you a minute or two to find the answer and I have repeatedly told you where to find it.

Also, you go on and on and on and on about the coordinates Reed was given differing by a large amount from the official version in the Mission Report, yet I don't ever recall you stating exactly what those figures are. Please do forgive me if I have simply missed them in your ridiculously wordy posts, and point out where they are, but if I haven't missed them, then please post them so we can actually say something about them, because until you give them to us, we can't say anything and we can't even judge if what you say about Reed is accurate or not.

There is plenty of evidence that the coordinates in the Mission Report are accurate, and that is why they are there. Reed appears to be the only one who disagrees, but you don't appear to have given us the figures he was given. Please do.

It is immaterial whether a reporter sent a video tape from Lick to some other destination, and what his name was. I too doubt the veracity of that. But what is material, is that apparently flashes in a telescope view of the moon from Lick were broadcast live on American TV and apparently Walter Cronkite commented on them. And it is that report that the Capcom told Mike Collins about. But it was a mistake -- a misinterpretation that the flashes were returns from the LRRR.

I'm not a good one to ask about this because I'm a New Zealander and did not watch that same broadcast on TV because New Zealand had no live satellite connection to overseas at the time. But it would be good if more could be found about exactly what was seen on American TV.

However, the point remains. Lick had not got a return from the LRR at the time stated, and you, yourself, have that information, so it is dishonest of you to be pushing what is clearly a simple error.

Finally, please tell us what the correct Lunney quote was. You've avoided that one too.

Wasn't ignoring your question Kiwi9, will look into it. doing this and that you know. But will be sure I answer that question for you before I have to go off for good for a while. So, our differences aside, I read all of your questions, if I don't answer it is beause I am otherwise occupied, including being occupied by way of fielding other questions from your colleagues, not to mention doing other things of course.

 

[Erock]

Supposing what you say is true, one could hypothesis a transmitting satellite around the earth following the moon's path. I don't really think that happened however.

You could hypothesise any number of things, but to make them feasible is another matter.

There is a very real reason why an orbiting satellite could not match the Moon's path, and that is because it would need to be the same distance away from the Earth. It could then not occupy the same space.

No Earth geostationary satellite could work either due to alignment issues. As far as having a geostationary satellite around the Moon itself, that could never work, since it would be a long way distant from the Moon, and subject to the same alignment issues. The Moon librates during its orbit, and that is a very significant distance even over 1 day.

Which brings us back to the radio signals, the ones patrick1000 keeps dismissing. There is only one possible explanation for them. They came from the landing site and the CSM. No matter what spin he puts on these various book accounts, or the facts he conveniently doesn't acknowledge, he cannot answer this.

 

[Buckaroo]

Wasn't ignoring your question Kiwi9, will look into it. doing this and that you know. But will be sure I answer that question for you before I have to go off for good for a while. So, our differences aside, I read all of your questions, if I don't answer it is beause I am otherwise occupied, including being occupied by way of fielding other questions from your colleagues, not to mention doing other things of course.

Bullspit.

 

[drewid]

Bullspit.

It's as believeable as the Bay Area Medical Chess Club, or his wife Lucinda, or the Chinese physicist (52).

 

[Patrick1000]

Posted long ago

Wasn't ignoring your question Kiwi9, will look into it. doing this and that you know. But will be sure I answer that question for you before I have to go off for good for a while. So, our differences aside, I read all of your questions, if I don't answer it is beause I am otherwise occupied, including being occupied by way of fielding other questions from your colleagues, not to mention doing other things of course.

The coordinates were posted long agoo Kiwi9, in post #1178, the one I keep referring to. To be honest, I have yet to double check my numbers. I keep meaning to.

I read in another report that Reed's coordinates were 200 meeters from Tranquility Base, I got 1,200 feet. That 200 meter figure is I think from the ALSJ. It doesn't say "Reed" it just refers to the coordinates used right before launch, but those were the rendezvous radar coordinates.

All the coordinates, the real-time solutions and others, are all in the Mission Report. What I did in #1178 was to show how close the coordinates are to one another and to Tranquiility Base(00 41 15 north 23 26 00 east). Once one does this , you can see the contradictions. should be enough for you, but that post has been there for a long time Kiwi9, my calculations up for a long time and it has been the point I have been pressing for a long time.

Guess we are not communicating well. not saying the fault is on your side. Just pointing it out.

 

[drewid]

The coordinates were posted long agoo Kiwi9, in post #1178, the one I keep referring to. To be honest, I have yet to double check my numbers. I keep meaning to.

I read in another report that Reed's coordinates were 200 meeters from Tranquility Base, I got 1,200 feet. That 200 meter figure is I think from the ALSJ. It doesn't say "Reed" it just refers to the coordinates used right before launch, but those were the rendezvous radar coordinates.

All the coordinates, the real-time solutions and others, are all in the Mission Report. What I did in #1178 was to show how close the coordinates are to one another and to Tranquiility Base(00 41 15 north 23 26 00 east). Once one does this , you can see the contradictions. should be enopugh for you, but that post has been there for a long time Kiwi9, my calculations up for a long time and it has been the point I have been pressing for a long time.

Guess we are not communicating well. not saying the fault is on your side. Just pointing it out.

Correct. You aren't.

 

[Patrick1000]

we can talk more later about the reporter thing

Patrick1000

You keep on and on and on avoiding my question about what coordinates Lick used as stated in the Preliminary Science Report. Such avoidance would not be tolerated on two of the forums from which you and your socks have been banned.

Please have the courtesy to answer the question. It will only take you a minute or two to find the answer and I have repeatedly told you where to find it.

Also, you go on and on and on and on about the coordinates Reed was given differing by a large amount from the official version in the Mission Report, yet I don't ever recall you stating exactly what those figures are. Please do forgive me if I have simply missed them in your ridiculously wordy posts, and point out where they are, but if I haven't missed them, then please post them so we can actually say something about them, because until you give them to us, we can't say anything and we can't even judge if what you say about Reed is accurate or not.

There is plenty of evidence that the coordinates in the Mission Report are accurate, and that is why they are there. Reed appears to be the only one who disagrees, but you don't appear to have given us the figures he was given. Please do.

It is immaterial whether a reporter sent a video tape from Lick to some other destination, and what his name was. I too doubt the veracity of that. But what is material, is that apparently flashes in a telescope view of the moon from Lick were broadcast live on American TV and apparently Walter Cronkite commented on them. And it is that report that the Capcom told Mike Collins about. But it was a mistake -- a misinterpretation that the flashes were returns from the LRRR.

I'm not a good one to ask about this because I'm a New Zealander and did not watch that same broadcast on TV because New Zealand had no live satellite connection to overseas at the time. But it would be good if more could be found about exactly what was seen on American TV.

However, the point remains. Lick had not got a return from the LRR at the time stated, and you, yourself, have that information, so it is dishonest of you to be pushing what is clearly a simple error.

Finally, please tell us what the correct Lunney quote was. You've avoided that one too.

I'd encourage you to read up more on this subject. I will when I can as well. I just don't fiind the story credible. The film in a plane to NYC and on the air. Would be the scoop of the millenium. they would fact check that thing, just do a simple basic check. It is not real Kiwi9.

And again, I could almost not care less. It is immaterial to my argument. fine if you believe that story,. doesn't change my point(s).

 

[abaddon]

Now that we have confirmed the telemetry is bogus,

You didn't do any such thing, you simply employed a gish gallop in the most infantile manner concievable.

remember how I just demonstrated how the Voice Transcript record supports Reed's claims and not the Mission Report document.

You demonstrated no such thing.

And why shouldn't we prefer Reed to the Mission Report, I mean he is the LAUNCH SPECIALIST FLIGHT DYNAMICS OFFICER AND WAS ONLY HAND PICKED FOR THE JOB THAT MORNING(07/21/1969) AFTERALL,

This has all been explained to you again and again, using progressively simpler terms until we are required to use words of no more than two syllables, which you still fail to understand.

we do have a problem with that telemetry now don't we?

Maybe Agatha there with his super acute brain will rescue the telemetry and the astronauts from the bogus script, but it is not looking so good for the boys now is it?

Agatha is a "her". The only thing bogus is every claim you have made.

So Captain_Swoop, if H. David Reed and the FIDO boys on before him were being fed telemetric space jive, where was it coming from? Certainly wasn't coming from the LM's transmission. That said, according to the mission report, the Eagle was within .64 miles per the flight processor of Tranquility Base. Oh my!

Your repetition reveals your absence of substance.

What a terrible mess this has become, almost like Alice in Wonderland in Space, sans the excellent writing ande themes. How 'bout you Captain_Swoop, care to help your colleague Agatha save face there. He talked a big game didn't he? Oh well.

How embarrassing for you.

 

[Patrick1000]

LRRR not targeted until August 1st 1969

Patrick1000

You keep on and on and on avoiding my question about what coordinates Lick used as stated in the Preliminary Science Report. Such avoidance would not be tolerated on two of the forums from which you and your socks have been banned.

Please have the courtesy to answer the question. It will only take you a minute or two to find the answer and I have repeatedly told you where to find it.

Also, you go on and on and on and on about the coordinates Reed was given differing by a large amount from the official version in the Mission Report, yet I don't ever recall you stating exactly what those figures are. Please do forgive me if I have simply missed them in your ridiculously wordy posts, and point out where they are, but if I haven't missed them, then please post them so we can actually say something about them, because until you give them to us, we can't say anything and we can't even judge if what you say about Reed is accurate or not.

There is plenty of evidence that the coordinates in the Mission Report are accurate, and that is why they are there. Reed appears to be the only one who disagrees, but you don't appear to have given us the figures he was given. Please do.

It is immaterial whether a reporter sent a video tape from Lick to some other destination, and what his name was. I too doubt the veracity of that. But what is material, is that apparently flashes in a telescope view of the moon from Lick were broadcast live on American TV and apparently Walter Cronkite commented on them. And it is that report that the Capcom told Mike Collins about. But it was a mistake -- a misinterpretation that the flashes were returns from the LRRR.

I'm not a good one to ask about this because I'm a New Zealander and did not watch that same broadcast on TV because New Zealand had no live satellite connection to overseas at the time. But it would be good if more could be found about exactly what was seen on American TV.

However, the point remains. Lick had not got a return from the LRR at the time stated, and you, yourself, have that information, so it is dishonest of you to be pushing what is clearly a simple error.

Finally, please tell us what the correct Lunney quote was. You've avoided that one too.

What is this calling me dishonest jive Kiwi9? Everyone knows the LRRR was not targeted siuccessfully until 08/01/1969. this is not a point in dispute. It is in the papers of the principal investigators, the SCIENCE articles of which I am quite familir.

Don't accuse me of pushing some other angle. I pointed out that the capcom SAID! the LRRR was targeted successfully, and if that was the case, people would be saying, "what are the coordinates". I never said anything about the thing actually having been successfully targeted.

Now who is being dishonest? Actually I imagine you misunderstood me, but if you had at least understood a little of what I have written you'd have seen i emphasize over and over and over and over the LRRR was not successfully targeted until August 8th.

So be fair!

 

[dafydd]

Yawn.

 

[Oji]

Yours doesn't explain coordinate confusion or starlight phobia.

But as these, as with all your "evidence", appear to only exist in your imagination, I am not entirely convinced they need an explanation.

 

[Patrick1000]

Bored? Split!

Yawn.

Also, it is clear none of you have even read 1178, let alone understand it. Case in point Kiwi9 above asking for the numbers, not to mention the posts of others.

And you accuse me of not reading your posts? Not a one of you have any idea as to what I am arguing. I'll leave this for a while as it does seem pointless.

there it is before you, the FIDO H. David Reed, the Launch specialist saying that the data in the Mission Report is not accurate and you are not interested? Fine.

I am otta' here, least for a while. Read the post and THEN, you might have something to say.

 

[Patrick1000]

Fine Oji

But as these, as with all your "evidence", appear to only exist in your imagination, I am not entirely convinced they need an explanation.

Fine Oji, I 'll be back later. I have no need for this nonsense now.

 

[Agatha]

Not a one of you have any idea as to what I am arguing.

This is the most accurate thing you have posted; sadly for you it is because none of your arguments are internally consistent, coherent or have any merit whatsoever.

 

[dafydd]

And you accuse me of not reading your posts? Not a one of you have any idea as to what I am arguing.

True,none of us speak Pure Gibberish.