Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Do you think the owner of the cottage was particularly happy that a random crime tourist (not even a resident of Perugia nor anyone remotely associated with the victim) saw fit to place a "memorial" at the gate of his/her property - an act that was bound to remind people (including potential tenants) of the brutal murder of a young woman within his/her property?

Do you think that the owner of the property was/is particularly happy to have random crime tourists sticking cameras through trees and under railings to take long-lens photographs of his/her property, and even to trespass upon the property in a ghoulish desire to get close to the scene of a murder?

Do you think the residents and authorities of Perugia think it's normal or appropriate for random crime tourists to engage in "weekend crime tours" of Perugia, making timed walks between various areas connected with the crime or the defendants?

I believe the owner is a woman. She got a bad break. Crimes tours are nothing new (and now there is one in Perugia) and there is going to always be a certain segment of the population that are goulish.
 
Do you think the owner of the cottage was particularly happy that a random crime tourist (not even a resident of Perugia nor anyone remotely associated with the victim) saw fit to place a "memorial" at the gate of his/her property - an act that was bound to remind people (including potential tenants) of the brutal murder of a young woman within his/her property?

Do you think ....snipped for redundancy

Do you think......snipped for redundancy

I think this ancient beaten to death topic to be infinitesimally insignificant.

I thinkit was resurrected solely initially and here subsequently 'defended' as a feeble easily exposed excuse to attack an absent arguer who when here made mincemeat out of every argument he encountered and as such becomes 'fair game' for tiresome one sided, resentful attackers .

I think that I additionally abhor arguments such as this:
"Of course, some may attempt to argue otherwise in a simpleton farming kind of way - hampered by agricultural ignorance, total lack of any academic qualifications or rigour, and a straw-chewing inability to make logical deductions. But this kind of unintellectual agrarian argument does not carry any water to anyone armed with intelligence and logic."

I think this argument is obviously in a similar communications engineered pseudo self-aggrandized elitist ad hom vein, and so accurately, absolutely accentuates my past arguments suggesting why so few arguers are willing to put up with this attack dog mentality evident in so many arguments here.
I think that if you cleverly disguise the identity of the fellow poster (farmer??) you
attack here, you may flaunt the intent of the MA to your heart's desire

Finally, out of respect for the MA, I say no more and leave you today to your like minded associates.

ETA:
Please also with haste do inform the literally millions of respectful individuals who as strangers leave floral memorials to others who senselessly die, as small tokens of condolence.
Inform them just how disgusted you apparently are with their random acts of kindness
 
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I think this ancient beaten to death topic to be infinitesimally insignificant.

I thinkit was resurrected solely initially and here subsequently 'defended' as a feeble easily exposed excuse to attack an absent arguer who when here made mincemeat out of every argument he encountered and as such becomes 'fair game' for tiresome one sided, resentful attackers .

I additionally abhor arguments such as this:
"Of course, some may attempt to argue otherwise in a simpleton farming kind of way - hampered by agricultural ignorance, total lack of any academic qualifications or rigour, and a straw-chewing inability to make logical deductions. But this kind of unintellectual agrarian argument does not carry any water to anyone armed with intelligence and logic."

This argument is obviously in a similar communications engineered pseudo self-aggrandized elitist ad hom vein, and so accurately, absolutely accentuates my past arguments suggesting why so few arguers are willing to put up with this attack dog mentality evident in so many arguments here.
Finally, out of respect for the MA, I say no more and leave you today to your like minded associates


Oh dear.

As I've said before, any references to "communications engineered" arguments will be met by return with references to "simpleton farmer" arguments. So there's a simple solution, isn't there?

Anyhow, regarding the case itself, do you think that the Luminol blobs - or even the one recognisable footprint - are in any way attributable to Knox? And do you think that the improper "smearing" way in which the specimen swabs were collected in the small bathroom has totally negated their evidential worth? And what about the bathmat partial print? Do you think it can be positively attributed to Sollecito, and/or excluded as Guede?

ETA: There is a huge difference between leaving floral tributes in public places or specially-designated places (and usually very soon after the event) and fixing floral tributes to the gate of a private residential property three years after the event. But if you can provide other examples of total strangers leaving memorials three years after the event - whether in a public place or a private property - that would be interesting.
 
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I believe the owner is a woman. She got a bad break. Crimes tours are nothing new (and now there is one in Perugia) and there is going to always be a certain segment of the population that are goulish.


Oh I agree. But do you think that the people visiting - or organising visits to - (for example) Nicole Brown Simpson's Brentwood home, or the Menendez family residence in Beverly Hills, are doing so out of a wish to honour the victims?

It is indeed an unfortunate break for the owner of the cottage in Perugia. But the crime tourists to her Perugia cottage are just as much contributors to her bad break as the crime tourists to the Brown Simpson or Menendez homes are contributors to the ongoing problems of the people who own or live in those properties. Saying (correctly) that crime tourism goes on elsewhere doesn't make it either right or decent.
 
I think this ancient beaten to death topic to be infinitesimally insignificant.

I thinkit was resurrected solely initially and here subsequently 'defended' as a feeble easily exposed excuse to attack an absent arguer who when here made mincemeat out of every argument he encountered and as such becomes 'fair game' for tiresome one sided, resentful attackers .

I think that I additionally abhor arguments such as this:
"Of course, some may attempt to argue otherwise in a simpleton farming kind of way - hampered by agricultural ignorance, total lack of any academic qualifications or rigour, and a straw-chewing inability to make logical deductions. But this kind of unintellectual agrarian argument does not carry any water to anyone armed with intelligence and logic."

I think this argument is obviously in a similar communications engineered pseudo self-aggrandized elitist ad hom vein, and so accurately, absolutely accentuates my past arguments suggesting why so few arguers are willing to put up with this attack dog mentality evident in so many arguments here.
I think that if you cleverly disguise the identity of the fellow poster (farmer??) you
attack here, you may flaunt the intent of the MA to your heart's desire

Finally, out of respect for the MA, I say no more and leave you today to your like minded associates.

ETA:
Please also with haste do inform the literally MILLIONS of respectful individuals who as strangers leave floral memorials to others who senselessly die as small tokens of condolence.
Inform them just how disgusted you apparently are with their random acts of kindness


How true - how anyone on either side of this case could complain about putting a rose on the gate in respect of the murdered victim on it's anniversary is beyond me - says a lot perhaps about that person. Had, say Bruce Fisher done the same, I would have applauded him as well.
 
a strange admission

Oh dear.

As I've said before, any references to "communications engineered" arguments will be met by return with references to "simpleton farmer" arguments. So there's a simple solution, isn't there?

DO I read your 'simple solution argument' above now to be an obvious admission that your previous particularly vicious ad hom attack on the 'farmer' arguer was directly intended to be an attack on pilot ??????

Really ??

This, errrr...'argument'.... was as you now state actually intended for Pilot ???

Of course, some may attempt to argue otherwise in a simpleton farming kind of way - hampered by agricultural ignorance, total lack of any academic qualifications or rigour, and a straw-chewing inability to make logical deductions. But this kind of unintellectual agrarian argument does not carry any water to anyone armed with intelligence and logic.
 
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How true - how anyone on either side of this case could complain about putting a rose on the gate in respect of the murdered victim on it's anniversary is beyond me - says a lot perhaps about that person. Had, say Bruce Fisher done the same, I would have applauded him as well.


Do you think the owner of the private residential property on whose gates this "memorial" was placed would have any right to complain?

And it wasn't "a rose". It was three artificial roses and a card.

So what does it say about me that I brought up the fact that a) there is one significant person in all this - the owner of the cottage - who would not be pleased about reminders of the murder being placed on the gate of her property, and b) that these reminders were not even placed by anyone who had any association with the victim? What does it say about me? I'd be very interested to know....
 
DO I read your 'simple solution argument' above now to be an obvious admission that your previous particularly vicious ad hom attack on the 'farmer' arguer was directly intended to be an attack on pilot ??????

Really ??

This was as you now state actually intended for Pilot ???


I said nothing of the sort. I said that if references to "communications engineered" arguments stop, then references to "simpleton farmer" arguments will also stop. What is it that you don't understand about that?

Anyhow, since this is deeply off topic, that's the end of this discussion from my perspective. I trust that all attempts at personalisation within posts will cease from here on, eh?
 
I'd like to see a post where pilot padron says what he thinks about the evidence in this case.
 
Nice try, but pparently you missed this ??

I'd like to see a post where pilot padron says what he thinks about the evidence in this case.


although extensively immediately previously 'critiqued' by several others here...repeated again for DanO:

I think:

1) Your courteous well written request is appreciated.

2) My main source of information about the case is each and every available court transcript, and translated documents, naturally the Motivations Report, 4 complete books, and as many as six Forums at various times, as well as most media and even Internet reports.

3) My "faith in the prosecution" is a significantly lesser motivating factor for me than you again incorrectly infer

4) My opinion of Prosecutor Mignini is that he is a highly qualified well respected Official doing a very difficult job in a very difficult enviornment.
He is human, not perfect, but certainly not deserving of the vile vitriol directed at him mostly on this Forum and mostly as a result of him simply trying to perform his dictated duties to the best of his ability.

5) Your reading of my most "significant driver" of guilt as mere "faith in authorities" bears no resemblance to actuality, and is very puzzling in itself.
My main convictions toward guilt *starts* with the inability of two individuals found in close proximity to a savagely murdered innocent young woman to provide any conceivably correct convincing by any stretch of the imagination answer to that horribly difficult initial question: ...."Where were you when Meredith was murdered?.
The, by my latest count, *Nine (9) varying, contradicting, throwing each other and Mr Lumumba under the bus 'answers' from the pair to the 'where' question did indeed impress me.
*(Three (3) Sollecito, and six (6) Knox)


6) My convictions toward guilt have little or any of the shallow "authorities are always correct" foundation that you oddly infer.
Your acknowledgement about strong (additional) evidence of guilt is appreciated.
There are indeed many, many more pieces of evidence that cause me to continue to believe in guilt:
staged break in, absurdity of 'Lone Wolf' being possible as per testimony of numerous forensic experts who testified that more than one person killed Meredith, the mixed blood samples, Sollecito’s bloody footprint on the blue bathmat, the Luminol footprints, the mobile phone and computer records that provide irrefutable proof that Knox and Sollecito lied, Knox’s telephone calls and conversations with Filomena and the postal police on 2 November 2007, Knox’s false and malicious accusation against Diya Lumumba which she didn’t retract the whole time he was in prison, and on and on and on.

And of course you have only heard one side so far about the knife and clasp.
The timing, necessity, and absurdity of Sollecito's pricking story tells me mountains more than C and V about what was indeed on that knife blade at one time anyway.


I provide these to you not as basis to ignite and argue each.

Please understand; I ignore most less courteous similar challenges precisely because each and every piece of above evidence has been in some way argued at least one hundred and possible thousands of times here..
With absolutely no moving of positions (save possibly yours?).

Your request directed to me probably more due to being sole remaining guilt advocate today, flatters, and in fact prompted the above uncharacteristic summary.
However, others have argued these points much better than I.

If you sincerely seek contrary opinions, yet for whatever reason you read only here, may I suggest you do a search and read how Some Alibi incredibly and efficiently exposed as fallacious and erroneous any and all of the arguments thrown up here during his stay from those that you state above so influenced you.

For sundry and sometimes simpleton reasons, this audience chooses to ridicule and discard with abundant scorn any and all possibilities of guilt.
I do not choose to go another 60,000 rounds of that, nor do I attempt to argue each and every of those *yet again*, nor do I ask you to accept my belief, particularly ..... if all you read is here.

Such is the privilege here.
I choose to expose the more blatant biased obvious inaccuracies, because when left unchallenged they become 'fact' solely from repetition here.
However, your well written thoughts immensely help me understand your subsequent beliefs in light of your opening sentence.
Hope this helps you understand mine.
 
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although extensively immediately previously 'critiqued' by several others here...repeated again for DanO:

I think:

Glad to see you drop the 3 traces of Meredith's blood in Amanda's room. I am curious about the call between Amanda and Filomena. What in their conversation shows evidence of guilt in your opinion?
 
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I'm glad to see that pilot is no longer listing fragrant Curatolo among sources of his convictions. He's right that other absurdities are already demolished and he's unable to defend them. Ah, and such prominence for the luminol traces is quite funny :)
 
It's sad that pilot resorts to making things up to prop up his list, though.

But it is in line with the other guilt proponent, known for inept photo manipulations yet held by pilot in great esteem, that visited here.
 
May I respectfully ask ....
Is this the best on topic, non ad hominem, ever so repeatedly requested and desired here 'argument'... *discussing only case events, please*...that you can offer for this distinguished group today ???

What is your ToD??

PS:
FYI, as discussed, previously in great length here, since all flower vendors were closed at that time, the most reverently intended memorial you find so necessary to so slur now, were white linen, and were the best available at any price anywhere that day.

No one cares what the flowers were made of. No one cares about the flower vendors. The only reason the flowers are discussed at all is because SomeAlibi went into an insane tirade when a news reporter allegedly misrepresented the flowers.

The truth is the flowers were left in an attempt to get attention by a person pretending to care about someone he never met. The same attention getting behavior can be seen with his interaction with Curatolo when SomeAlibi used a drug addict for his own benefit.
 
How true - how anyone on either side of this case could complain about putting a rose on the gate in respect of the murdered victim on it's anniversary is beyond me - says a lot perhaps about that person. Had, say Bruce Fisher done the same, I would have applauded him as well.

No one has complained about roses being left for Meredith. The entire discussion about the flowers comes from the actions of the person that left them. Comments are directed at his tirade, not his good deed.

If I left flowers no one would know I left flowers because I wouldn't make an issue out of it. If I created a website to preserve the memory of a murder victim I would make sure the site celebrated that person's life, I wouldn't use the the victim's tragedy as a front to spew hate but that's just me.
 
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Infinitesimally insignificant redux

Forgive me if I fail to grasp the relationship of these two above 'arguments' to the main events of the case such as ToD, timelines, etcccc that many here seem to always challenge each and every guilt believing poster to concentrate on.

However , I can grasp the arguments' more obvious ad homs directed to a particularly effective and deeply resented past poster favoring guilt, and with decimating accuracy arguing same here many months ago.
But SA is no longer even active in any way on this Board.
I as well grasp other associated sundry borderline off topic pet peeves mentioned yet again in the arguments.

Additionally, I hasten to yield to the poster's frequently acknowledged expertise on the topic of "insane rants:" that he refers us to to in his... 'argument'.

Finally, please to avoid any *confusion* refer to the originating post about the flowers and please note that the sole subject was indeed "what the flowers were made of"
 
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