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Harry Potter -- Far Superior to LOTR?

Skeptic

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I am reading the HP books now with great enjoyment and I must say that, while not perhaps great literature, it is FAR superior to the LOTR (to say nothing of C.S. Lewis' "Narnia").

Some reasons:

1). Ron vs. Sam: the #1 hero is the kid who inherits lots of money from their parents in both cases, but unlike Sam who is very happy to be a servant all his life, there is a very good reason why Ron's family doesn't have much money, and both he and his parents are extremely important characters precisely *for* that reason.

2). Hermione is a female character that actually matters. In general, female characters matter, and *act* female -- that is, different but not inferior to the male characters. Tolkein couldn't create a believable female character to save his life. Of course, the author being herself a woman surely helped...

3). The combination of "real-life" problems (growing up, first kiss, etc.) with the fantasy is done very skillfully in the "Potter" books, and naturally has absolutely no equivalent in LOTR. Similarly the relationship between magicians and non-magicians.

4). The idea of a school for magic is pure genius, but, more to the point -- makes the increasing power of the magic as the stories evolve seem logical. In LOTR it is never really clear why the all-powerful Gandalf doesn't do much more much sooner.

5). The nature of the "opposition" (Sauron vs. Voldermort) is much clearer. The Nazgul, for example, or Sauron himself for that matter, hardly play a part in LOTR except for the climax (and Frodo hiding for a few minutes from them doesn't count).

6). There IS "deus ex machina" in both books, of course, but in a way that is more reasonable in the "Potter" books.

7). Suspense is kept in a much more sophisticated way in the "Potter" books, especially in the richer secondary characters, whose "side" is sometimes not clear. The reasons for complicated characters' development (Snape, Hagrid, etc.) revealed gradually and make sense. In LOTR there is little chracter development at all.

8). Comic relief done very well; Rowling has an excellent sense of balance between "serious" chapters and "funny" chapters (and how to tie them all together). Almost none exists in LOTR.

9). The characters mature believably also in the physical sense of entering adulthood, not just in having more powerful magic.

10). On the whole and in general, Rowling has a much better imagination than Tolkein. It's the easiest thing in the world to imagine an all-powerful lord of darkness whose eternal minions will overcome the world with all-powerful magic until the one hero saves them. But to imagine the numerous small details, the little daily magical spells, the annoying or funny magical creatures in a way Rowling does -- that fits into the story, however, that takes a lot more.

11). Tolkein stole the idea for the story, more or less, from Wagner's "Ring" cycle, which itself is based on Scandinavian mythology. Hogwarts is, so far as I can tell, a purely original creation.
 
if you think that Hogwarts is "a purely original creation", you should probably read a lot more british children's literature. I'd recommend starting with The Worst Witch by Jill Murphy, the Mallory Towers series by Enid Blyton, and Witch Week by Diana Wynne Jones. Rowling derives influences from all across fantasy and children't literature. She does interesting things with these influences and presents them in a new and original way, but like all good fantasy authors, she is inspired by what came before.

Oh, and just for fun, read The Books Of Magic by Neil Gaiman, published several years before Rowling was writing, and featuring a main character who is an eleven year old boy with dark hair, glasses, and a pet owl, who is destined to one day become the greatest wizard in the world.

Obviously, Rowling didn't "steal" the ideas for her stories, she's merely a participant in a grand literary tradition. Equally obviously, Tolkien didn't "steal" the ideas of Lord Of The Rings.
 
It's spelled Tolkien. :cool:

Second, what you appear to mean by "far superior" is that the Potter books fulfill what you personally are looking for in a fantasy series.

Third, Potter had some 5-6000 pages to tell its story. LOTR does it in less than 1000.

Skeptic, I love both series, and I see what you mean by most of your numbered points in the OP. But I don't agree that these differences make Potter better.
 
if you think that Hogwarts is "a purely original creation", you should probably read a lot more british children's literature. I'd recommend starting with The Worst Witch by Jill Murphy, the Mallory Towers series by Enid Blyton, and Witch Week by Diana Wynne Jones. Rowling derives influences from all across fantasy and children't literature.

Not to mention Star Wars.
 
Second, what you appear to mean by "far superior" is that the Potter books fulfill what you personally are looking for in a fantasy series.

Yep, this.

Third, Potter had some 5-6000 pages to tell its story. LOTR does it in less than 1000.

And yet he STILL had time to bore us to tears with long, pointless detours... ;)
 
They are both good, fun reads.

That said, the LOTR universe feels real, while Harry Potter Land comes across as somewhat silly, sort of like the Narnia books do.

I'd guess LOTR will stand the test of time better than HP.
 
Potter was a lot of fun, but Rowling's work isn't significantly more inventive than any other popular fantastist's. A good description of Rowling is "a skilled pastiche." If you increase your sample size, you'll see that almost nothing in the Potter universe is original. Rowling's skill was in intertwining myths from many different cultures into a (somewhat) homegenous mass. She stuck mostly with the British Isles, but freely grabbed anything needed from elsewhere. Tolkien was more of a purist in his approach: He wanted one mythos to govern the entire story.

They were also completely different types of stories, told using completely different types of narrative voices. Rowling was writing contemporary YA adventure, where Tolkien was doing an adult saga (mythopoeia). They are different dishes, prepared for different palates.

I wouldn't say either was superior to the other without specifying a context in which the superiority applied. Rowling provides excitement and action, mingled with a tiny bit of angst, giving an overall depth comparable to a bathtub. Tolkien shows you the first several hundred feet of an ocean trench, but has very little heart-pounding action or suspense. (The saga format never has a surprise ending; it's about showing how the hero's character is tested.)

One's experience with fantasy literature probably inform one's opinions about superiority more than a synopsis or point-by-point comparison.
 
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Good point StuBob, Harry Potter really is a lot like the Narnia books. A decent yarn the first time through but no real epic staying power.

The Lord of the Rings pretty much created modern fantasy as we know it. No work of fantasy today can be written without in some way either trying to fight it's legacy or embracing it. All of the things in LotR that may seem cliche or over-used were not at the time of its writing. Tolkien either created or refined those cliches and ideas, modern authors often fight just to get out of the great shadow of his work.

Really, in comparison Harry Potter has no chance. It's like a child trying to stand up to an aged judo master. The child may have speed and enthusiasm, but they will still end up flat on their back wondering what the heck just happened.
 
The Potter movies were also better than the LOTR movies. The elf/dwarf comic relief was horrible.
 
11). Tolkein stole the idea for the story, more or less, from Wagner's "Ring" cycle, which itself is based on Scandinavian mythology. Hogwarts is, so far as I can tell, a purely original creation.

I don't know. For me it owed a lot to a Wizard of Earthsea.WP Not that I saw anything wrong with that.
 
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I tend to agree with Gawdzilla's point.

You are trying to compare completely different literary styles. LOTR is a fantasy epic, Harry Potter is essentially children's fantasy aimed at children and adolescents.

Comparing the two is pointless and only serves to demonstrate what you like rather than actual quality. I think it's fairly obvious that LOTR has survived the test of time and is generally considered to be a serious literary achievement. Harry Potter may stand the test of time but we will have to see. I am surprised to see that you think Harry Potter is completely original, since I have always considered it very derivative. Watch "The Worst Witch" sometimes (as has been mentioned above). The setting is virtually the same.

In any case, I personally enjoyed LOTR but did not really care for Harry Potter. The one thing I can say about that...

"De gustibus non est disputandum"
 
I am reading the HP books now with great enjoyment and I must say that, while not perhaps great literature, it is FAR superior to the LOTR (to say nothing of C.S. Lewis' "Narnia").
Comparing these two works is pointless and makes no sense. The problem with these kinds of essays or discussions is that they always begin with the mistaken premise that LOTR is a fantasy novel, which it isn't. Comparing LOTR to fantasy novels is an exercise in futility. Tolkien wanted to create a heroic epic, but his publishers wanted a sequel to The Hobbit. He basically compromised.

Some reasons:

4). In LOTR it is never really clear why the all-powerful Gandalf doesn't do much more much sooner.
Technically, Gandalf wasn't permitted to do much more. He was supposed to try to guide things along while intervening as little as possible. That might not have been made clear in LOTR, but that was the reason.

5). The nature of the "opposition" (Sauron vs. Voldermort) is much clearer. The Nazgul, for example, or Sauron himself for that matter, hardly play a part in LOTR except for the climax (and Frodo hiding for a few minutes from them doesn't count).
Sauron's persona was manifested in the One Ring and the effects it had on the other characters. Much more subtle and insidious than just some bad guy being mean to people (I'm not saying that's Voldemort, just saying Sauron wasn't a generic bad guy)

10). On the whole and in general, Rowling has a much better imagination than Tolkein.
You're kidding, right? Tolkien invented an entire world with a complete history just to give context to the language he'd created!

11). Tolkein stole the idea for the story, more or less, from Wagner's "Ring" cycle, which itself is based on Scandinavian mythology.
Totally incorrect. Nothing in Tolkien's writings comes from Wagner's Ring.

BTW, there is a silly movie from 1986 called Troll, about a family who moves into an apartment building wherein their daughter is taken over by a spirit of a troll who was living in the basement. The father's name is Harry Potter!

ETA: I had not seen Rob Degraves post while I was typing mine.
 
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I cannot watch LOTR all the way through and love HP but I will put my money behind LOTR being read/watched in 10+ years time, Harry Potter not so much
 
I won't. Of course, Jackson's blunder was to make the movies in the first place. The story just doesn't translate to the movie screen, no matter who's doing it.

Have you heard the BBC's adaption of Lord of the Rings, that was originally broadcast on radio? It had original music scores, inspired casting, and was very faithful to the novels. I think the whole thing lasted about 15 hours, and you can still pick up boxed CD sets.

While I agree that Jackson's film version was very poor, I'm not convinced that LOTR is unfilmable. Maybe the 1st requirement would be for the script writers to read the novels.
 
The opening post makes a compelling case. But, I think LOTR and HP were written for different times. LOTR was a tale for when people took their book reading more seriously.

I think it's worth noting that most of your arguments do not apply as much to The Hobbit. I'd like to see someone compare that to HP.

Of course, the author being herself a woman surely helped...
I'm sure it helped. But, it's not a necessity.

Read the "His Dark Materials" series, by Philip Pullman. It has compelling female characters, and yet it was written by a man.
The first book is either called Northern Lights or The Golden Compass, depending on where you are and which edition you manage to pick up.
(And, by the way, the book is better than the movie, especially the ending, which was botched in the movie.)

While I agree that Jackson's film version was very poor, I'm not convinced that LOTR is unfilmable. Maybe the 1st requirement would be for the script writers to read the novels.
Actually, they have to read the novels then understand why certain decisions were made by the author. I think they failed to do that with Faramir, for one thing.
 

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