Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Mignini doesn't care about protecting the right to free speech. Free speech is something to which ONLY Mignini is entitled - or so he believes. His libel has alienated millions against Amanda. Mignini is the only one that should be sued for libel and slander.

Boy would I like to see a fiction movie about a group the frees Amanda and punishes Mignini.

They could call it 'M'.
 
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Note reference to "the Italian police translation." So, perhaps Follain also got his "Edgar" quote out of the Italian police translation and didn't bother checking it against the real version. That would mean that the Italian police translation might be (try to contain your astonishment) screwed up.

But this also raises another issue. Presumably, the Italian police translation is a translation of the English original into Italian. So, how is it that Follain is quoting the Italian police translation in English? He must have had someone reverse translate the Italian police translation? Comical if true.

The full text of this story, in English, just as Amanda posted it on her MySpace page, has always been available online to anyone who was interested. Follain is simply a malicious liar.

This ranks with the recent Sky video that translates Amanda's statement to the court as "we all got drunk that night." These are not innocent, unintentional mistakes.
 
movie; false confessions

Do like me and wait for the movie.
Pardalis,

There was a Lifetime movie, but it got many things factually wrong, such as the relative timing between Raf's call to the Carabinieri (a branch of the police) and the arrival of the postal police. It might be some time before a factually accurate movie comes out, if at all.

The August 13 issue of The Economist has a nice little article on false confessions.
 
The full text of this story, in English, just as Amanda posted it on her MySpace page, has always been available online to anyone who was interested. Follain is simply a malicious liar.

This ranks with the recent Sky video that translates Amanda's statement to the court as "we all got drunk that night." These are not innocent, unintentional mistakes.

Good to read your posts again Charlie!

Wouldn't you like to see a movie called: "The Countess of Perugia"
 
I would like to see a fiction movie where the Countess of Perugia (Amanda) gets free and beats the living poop out of Mignini and the other villains.
 
Yeah I had the same thought, and did some searching - I think Follain got it from here:


Follain's version:

Google version:

The funny thing is that Google gets the pronouns right, so Follain must have altered them himself! In the article it's not clear why the person is lying on the floor, so I guess he just assumed it was the woman who'd been 'drugged and raped by another woman'. :rolleyes:

LOL. So, Follain plagarized from Il Massaggero. The part of the story he stole was the Italian-language description of the English-language original story. Follain misunderstands the Italian-language description, and so transposes the gender pronoun, turning his version into something that was never written by the original author. Follain doesn't bother to check his story against the actual original source before attributing it to Knox. What a numnut. He'd be a hoot at a whisper-down-the-lane party.
 
I would like to see a fiction movie where the Countess of Perugia (Amanda) gets free and beats the living poop out of Mignini and the other villains.


The funny thing is that if, in any venue other than a courtroom, some cretins like Mignini and Maresca directed at your daughter the kind of sexual innuendo, lies and garbage that they have directed at Knox, you would pound them and would be well justified in doing so. But here, they get away with it, solely because they are under the protection of the Italian judiciary. It's shameful. And Curt Knox must have the patience of a saint.
 
The funny thing is that if, in any venue other than a courtroom, some cretins like Mignini and Maresca directed at your daughter the kind of sexual innuendo, lies and garbage that they have directed at Knox, you would pound them and would be well justified in doing so. But here, they get away with it, solely because they are under the protection of the Italian judiciary. It's shameful. And Curt Knox must have the patience of a saint.

I would also like to see a movie where Harrison Ford playing Curt Knox kicks the living poop out of Mignini and the other villains.

Or, alternatively, a 24 movie where Jack Bauer interrogates the villains.
 
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Yeah I had the same thought, and did some searching - I think Follain got it from here:


Follain's version:

Google version:

The funny thing is that Google gets the pronouns right, so Follain must have altered them himself! In the article it's not clear why the person is lying on the floor, so I guess he just assumed it was the woman who'd been 'drugged and raped by another woman'. :rolleyes:

Another possibility could be that it's a police translation which both Follain and the journalists had access to? You'd have thought the context would've been clear in the full story but perhaps not! It certainly suggests Follain's accuracy and fact-checking leave a lot to be desired...

That's interesting. I should have read this before posting my response to Kaosium. It appears that Follain may indeed have derived his quote from a double-translation. But that doesn't explain the pronoun error. I have noticed that Google's translator often uses the male pronoun for female subjects, but never the reverse.

The propagandists in Perugia have gotten a lot of mileage out of translation errors. One classic example involves the diary Amanda wrote in prison, which was confiscated by the police who then exploited it to defame her. Here is Amanda's speculation regarding Meredith's DNA on the kitchen knife:

Raffaele and I have used this knife to cook, and it's impossible that Meredith's DNA is on the knife because she's never been to Raffaele's apartment before. So unless Raffaele decided to get up after I fell asleep, grabbed said knife, went over to my house, used it to kill Meredith, came home, cleaned the blood off, rubbed my fingerprints all over it, put it away, then tucked himself back into bed, and then pretended really well the next couple of days, well, I just highly doubt all of that.

Here's how it came out in the Daily Mail:

I don't remember anything. But I think it's possible that Raffaele went to Meredith's house, raped her, then killed her, and then when he got home, while I was sleeping, he put my fingerprints on the knife.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-killing-Foxy-Knoxy-changes-story--again.html

Barbie Nadeau picked up this quote in one of her articles, and Anne Bremner contacted her to ask that she correct it. Instead of admitting that she got it from the Daily Mail or from someone in Migini's office, Nadeau responded as follows:

While I respect your request to retract the diary excerpt in The Daily Beast article, I wish to clarify that I did not quote page 59 from the 80-page diary you refer to in your press release. I am quoting a subsequent passage from a "memoriale" that has been entered into evidence and that is contained in the 10,000 prosecution page dossier.

Of course, no such "memoriale" actually exists. She's simply lying through her teeth. She does that a lot.
 
That is the way I read it as well.

Reading that again for the first time in a while, I don't see how anyone can interpret this story as glorifying sexual violence. It speaks out against date rape and taking advantage of girls, in my opinion.

Exactly! It's all like that, the whole Foxy Knoxy smear. Seeing that John Follain, knowing he was writing Sunday Times articles, took that 'translation' from the police without checking the original, it makes me wonder about something. I always assumed the tabloid reporters deliberately misrepresented the diary, especially after the HIV test, I wonder instead if the police just told them there were seven, and didn't actually show them? The same must have happened with the CCTV video, as no one in their right mind could have come to the conclusion it was 'clear cut' if they actually saw it.
 
Nadeau responded as follows:

While I respect your request to retract the diary excerpt in The Daily Beast article, I wish to clarify that I did not quote page 59 from the 80-page diary you refer to in your press release. I am quoting a subsequent passage from a "memoriale" that has been entered into evidence and that is contained in the 10,000 prosecution page dossier.


That's the last refuge of the scoundrels--if you can't win the argument based on the facts, just say you're right based on "evidence" lodged within the 10,000-page, Italian-language court record. Same tactic they used in Erin Brockivich--throw up a paper smokescreen.
 
That's the last refuge of the scoundrels--if you can't win the argument based on the facts, just say you're right based on "evidence" lodged within the 10,000-page, Italian-language court record. Same tactic they used in Erin Brockivich--throw up a paper smokescreen.

What makes you think a liar would use a lie to protect his/her previous lie?
 
Exactly! It's all like that, the whole Foxy Knoxy smear. Seeing that John Follain, knowing he was writing Sunday Times articles, took that 'translation' from the police without checking the original, it makes me wonder about something. I always assumed the tabloid reporters deliberately misrepresented the diary, especially after the HIV test, I wonder instead if the police just told them there were seven, and didn't actually show them? The same must have happened with the CCTV video, as no one in their right mind could have come to the conclusion it was 'clear cut' if they actually saw it.

I think we should start to refer to these jokers by proper mafioso nicknames:

Andrea "I Was There" Vogt

Barbie "Dear Diary" Nadeau

John "Miss Edgar" Follain

Such dummies.
 
I'll offer to contribute $100 to any legal fund that sues Mignini for serial calunnia against the Knox family. Were I Trump, I would pay for the entire prosecution of Mignini myself.

Does anyone know how it works suing prosecutors? SB included a clause in his proposals allowing judges to be sued, so apparently it's not legal now, but would Mignini qualify as a judge in Italy? Does anyone know?


Mignini doesn't care about protecting the right to free speech. Free speech is something to which ONLY Mignini is entitled - or so he believes. His libel has alienated millions against Amanda. Mignini is the only one that should be sued for libel and slander.

Boy would I like to see a fiction movie about a group the frees Amanda and punishes Mignini.

They could call it 'M'.

I have a better name for it and theme song...

:D
 
Here's yet another, rather amusing, version of what happened during the night of NOV 2nd 2007. This time we have an excellent piece written by no one other then Some Alibi. It's not only filled with errors and some really funny stuff but also completely made up.
She had been out with Raffaele from lunchtime, then shopping in the late afternoon and round to his smoking a lot of dope from late afternoon. I think she left shortly after 8pm to go back to the cottage to change out of her day clothes and into something for her job handing out fliers to entice people into a bar and probably also to get some stuff together for her trip to Gubbio the next day.

Answering some other stuff: we know that she's in the vicinity of Piazza Grimana at the same time Rudy Guede is there because of the cell tower data (even though it's incorrectly referenced in part in Massei, the evidence was admitted in court). (The 40 minute pause in Amelie is corroborative of her time out of Raffaele's flat). She receives Patrick's message at 20.18 but doesn't reply until 20.35. My theory is she is talking to Rudy in the intervening minutes trying to get him to help her score. He doesn't have anything on him but says he can try and help and they arrange to meet up again in an hours time at 9.30. She wanders back to Raffaele's to give him the good news, texting Patrick back, turning her phone off and being at Raffaele's to answer the intercom at 20.40 to Popovic.

Some people don't like the idea of the drugs link but we know they all use and I think it is impossible to turn down the corroborated fact that both Amanda and Rudy are out and about at the same time in this tiny area around 20.30 and for that not to be linked to them hooking up again for a reason later. Their original meeting is random. They definitely met up again later. Why? I don't believe Amanda spontaneously planned a haze on seeing Rudy around 20.20. I believe the meet up and asking Rudy for help scoring is simply way more plausible.

She and Raffaele left his flat around 21.25 to do the five minute walk to Grimana to meet Rudy as arranged. If the starting of the torrent download at around 20.24 is proven, then for me that is absolutely consistent with going out. Torrenting uses up all bandwidth unless you've specifically set it not to and it is a very common practice for torrenting to be done when a user is going out or when going to bed. Kicking off a torrent as you go out is absolutely consistent.

I then say that Rudy had managed to score, presumably a little further afield than Grimana, either at the bottom of Garibaldi or in the Cathedral area at the top of Rossi. I have personally seen dealers in both and been offered drugs at the bottom of Garibaldi in broad daylight. The three then went to the cottage to take whatever they had and had a party in the kitchen per the story of Marie Pace.

I personally believe that Meredith had told Amanda at lunchtime that she had taken the cash out to pay the rent and had asked Amanda for hers, which she did not have. When Amanda met Rudy in the square the first time at around 20.20, I believe that Amanda went to the cottage and "borrowed" Meredith's cash to give to Rudy to help them all score. I personally believe that Rudy's story of Meredith being upset at the cash going missing and calling her a "whore of a doper", while yes a weak alibi for Rudy on the missing cash, is probably true. It may be that the call to Abbey bank at 22.00 was in fact Meredith's half-thinking reaction to finding the money gone since she's holding the phone at the time having just called her voicemail. It's the sort of thing we might all do for a few seconds before of course terminating it because she thinks "what am I doing? That's not the point - someone has taken the physical cash - who?". She then goes out to ask Amanda if she knows anything about it.

By this point the other three were off their faces on drugs and probably alcohol (remembering Raffaele and Amanda had now been taking drugs since late afternoon on their own admission) and were some 4+ hours into their bender. Amanda's reaction in that kind of state was probably to laugh at Meredith. This provoked the comment from Meredith and gives Amanda reason to explode at Meredith whom she knows disapproves of her messiness and the types of people she mixes with (said by Meredith to Sophie Purton). Amanda reacts badly and escalates it into a fight and the assault as the other two joined in. The assault escalated to a point where they felt they "had" to kill Meredith because otherwise she was going to tell the police. It was probably a unilateral decision by Amanda in my opinion as she realised this is where they'd got to.

Rudy leaves the cottage, running straight from the bedroom to the front door as shown by the footprints. Amanda and Raffaele are there long enough for Raffaele to wash off blood in the shower or in the bidet, leaving his footprint on the bathmat and Amanda to wash in the sink at the same time and they have a hurried clean-up in general, although Amanda will come back the next morning. When they leave from the drive, snaking up into the carpark and running along the metal stairs and then round into via Melo, multiple running footfalls on gravel, on the metal steps and on the pavement are heard by multiple witnesses around 23.30. FOA don't like anyone to remind them that it was not only Ms Capezzalli who heard the running on the driveway from a flat that is absolutely directly opposite the gravel driveway but also by Maria Dramis who was in a bedroom on the *other* side of that appartment block and who heard them running along via del Melo, having cut through on the metal steps and then run along to the steps running down the side of the basketball court. Via Melo, which is completely pedestrian and really in effect a back alley brings you out half-way down the steps directly behind one of the basketball hoops and about 15 yards from the vantage point at the edge of the court where you can observe down onto the gates which is in itself 15 yards from Curatolo's bench.

Here's the exit route. Plotting of the witnesses is approximate. The reason that they went like this is because the area in the yellow box is a busy intersection and they could easily be caught in headlights as the three roads intersect. Instead they sprinted across the road from the cottage gate to the ramp up to the carpark and then up the metal steps before cutting into Via Del Melo which is little more than a back alley.

Anyone?
 
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Here's yet another, rather amusing, version of what happened during the night of NOV 2nd 2007. This time we have an excellent piece written by no one other then Some Alibi. It's not only filled with errors and some really funny stuff but also completely made up.


Anyone?


Is that what he really thinks, or is that the backup version just in case Massei turns out to be a crock?
 
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Is that what he really thinks, or is that the backup version just in case Massei turns out to be a crock?

Apparently, it's what he thinks happened. Here's another quote where he explains:
I recently posted what I believe is the most likely explanation. It is impossible to ignore that Amanda and Rudy were within a few yards of each other around 8.20pm, corroborated by the cellphone records and Rudy himself. They met up and they arranged to do something later. The reason we will probably never know but this is my belief.
 
After four threads, I wish someone would post a summary of this whole conversation and start over. No one can read through all that except Data from Star Trek.

A fairly decent overview is available if you read the much shorter conspiracy thread. There's several long ones there, and you can also get an idea of the merits of the arguments for guilt. Some of the links are dead because Mignini filed charges on the Italian who has been following the case from the beginning and has produced more information than any other single source about the case. Ironically in the OP it's the one most sympathetic to him as he wasn't actually a detractor of Mignini, he just knew he was a bit...eccentric. You can find the Committee to Protect Journalists letter to the Italian President about it here and Frank's resurrected blog here.
 
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