Rick Perry vs. the Religious Right, Anti-Vaxers

[thaiboxerken]

Duncan, if there was a vaccine against AIDS, would you be opposed to mandating it?

 

[tyr_13]

Yes, he does! This is just a case a broken watch and all that.

While you may agree with his point of view on this paticular issue his motivation for it is still from the right wing right to life because sky daddy says so fairy tale.
It just demonstrates how no matter how much religion you have it's still neve good enough for some people so if you don't believe like I do your less then human, yuo'll burn in hell and we have the right to take awy your rights.

What the hell are you talking about? Credit where credit is due. He said,

"I challenge legislators to look these women in the eyes and tell them, `We could have prevented this disease for your daughters and granddaughters, but we just didn't have the gumption to address all the misguided and misleading political rhetoric,'"

That sounds like exactly the right reason, not some Christian nonsense. The reasoning is sound. Even if ultimately he attributes that god, that attribution is likely faulty, but the reasoning of saving lives is still sound.

On this issue, he's not only right, he's right for sound reasons.

 

[Alt+F4]

Since hpv is a public health hazard, I can't understand the "it should be a choice" position.

Who decided that HPV is a "public health hazard"?

 

[Duncanthrax]

Duncan, if there was a vaccine against AIDS, would you be opposed to mandating it?

Yes. And there actually is a vaccine against Hepatits B, which is not mandated by any state. Do you favor mandating that? Why do you think it hasn't been mandated?

 

[KingMerv00]

Sorry, this just lowers my opinion of Perry still further. I agree with mandatory vaccination when dealing with diseases that are spread through the air or by casual contact. But this is a mandatory vaccination for something caused by sexual intercourse. Can you tell me why an abstinent girl, or a lesbian, or someone who only has protected sex should have her bodily autonomy violated in this way?

Because the benefits outweigh the risks, both for the girl and society as a whole. I have to admit, I've never understood the need to call a simple vaccine a "violation of bodily autonomy". In my opinion, it is an excessively emotional response. The procedure takes seconds, is no worse that cramming a unwilling kid into a government-mandated (gasp!) car seat, and will save thousands of women. The downside is pathetically small.

I can hear the objections already. "Children will die!" Far fewer will die than it will save and it is absolutely no worse than forcing kids to wait for a crossing guard.

There are still some risks with vaccination, and no rewards for members of those groups.

I sincerely doubt a young child is capable of rationally declaring themselves to be abstinent or a lesbian. Hell, I don't trust full grown adults to always maintain abstinence or even lesbianism.

 

[tyr_13]

Yes. And there actually is a vaccine against Hepatits B, which is not mandated by any state. Do you favor mandating that? Why do you think it hasn't been mandated?

Because it doesn't lead to cancer, and it's rarely fatal.

 

[KingMerv00]

Yes. And there actually is a vaccine against Hepatits B, which is not mandated by any state. Do you favor mandating that?

Yes. With the exception of valid medical reasons. (Allergies etc.)

Why do you think it hasn't been mandated?

I'd have to look at the statistics but assuming the vaccine is safe and effective, I'd have to say "irrational fear".

 

[Duncanthrax]

I was under the impression that the shot had to be given young to be effective.

Wikipedia says 9 years old and up. So I'm not seeing your inability to see my point. The vaccine works better the earlier you get it. And it saves lives. I was just trying to see where your arbitrary line was being set.

Your Wikipedia link says only says that it has to be given to women who haven't previously been exposed to HPV. It also says that current recommendations include women up to 25, with some medical authorities favoring raising it to 45. My line has been clearly expressed and only deals with mandatory vaccination, not voluntary.

 

[Alan]

Who decided that HPV is a "public health hazard"?

I'm pretty sure that STI experts, oncologists and other scientists in relevant fields reached this conclusion based on the evidence available to them.

Would you really argue that HPV is in fact not a public health hazard?

 

[Alt+F4]

Because the benefits outweigh the risks, both for the girl and society as a whole. I have to admit, I've never understood the need to call a simple vaccine a "violation of bodily autonomy".

What about boys? Should they get Gardasil too?

A new study, funded by Gardasil's maker, Merck, involved 4,065 sexually active young men ages 16 to 26, from 18 countries, who were HPV-free at the time of trial. The participants were followed for two to three years. Overall, the study found that those in the Gardasil group was 65.5% less likely to develop genital warts caused by the four HPV strains that Gardasil inoculates against, compared with the placebo group. Among study participants who completed the entire three-dose regimen, the vaccine was 90.4% effective at preventing genital warts (and 85.6% effective at preventing persistent HPV infection), compared with the placebo group — similar to its effectiveness in the female population.

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/02/03/gardasil-protects-boys-and-men-from-hpv-too/#ixzz1V9EvbIEg​

The procedure takes seconds, is no worse that cramming a unwilling kid into a government-mandated (gasp!) car seat, and will save thousands of women. The downside is pathetically small.

Is there evidence that Gardasil has saved thousands of women?

​

 

[Alan]

Yes, males should also get gardasil.

 

[Alt+F4]

I'm pretty sure that STI experts, oncologists and other scientists in relevant fields reached this conclusion based on the evidence available to them.

Would you really argue that HPV is in fact not a public health hazard?

Well if all these experts have determined that HPV is a public health hazard I'm sure you can link to this. Please also give their definition of exactly what a "public health hazard" is. The Centers for Disease Control states that, "In 90% of cases, the body’s immune system clears HPV naturally within two years."

 

[Unabogie]

Well if all these experts have determined that HPV is a public health hazard I'm sure you can link to this. Please also give their definition of exactly what a "public health hazard" is. The Centers for Disease Control states that, "In 90% of cases, the body’s immune system clears HPV naturally within two years."

Well, here's the first link:

http://www.cdc.gov/hpv/WhatIsHPV.html

Cervical cancer. Each year, about 12,000 women get cervical cancer in the U.S.

Other cancers that can be caused by HPV are less common than cervical cancer. Each year in the U.S., there are about:

• 3,700 women who get vulvar cancer
• 1,000 women who get vaginal cancer
• 1,000 men who get penile cancer
• 2,700 women and 1,700 men who get anal cancer
• 2,300 women and 9,000 men who get head and neck cancers. [Note: although HPV is associated with some of head and neck cancers, most of these cancers are related to smoking and heavy drinking.]

Certain populations are at higher risk for some HPV-related health problems. This includes gay and bisexual men, and people with weak immune systems (including those who have HIV/AIDS).

So it sounds like a problem to me, but I'm not a doctor.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Who decided that HPV is a "public health hazard"?

Reality.

 

[Alt+F4]

So it sounds like a problem to me, but I'm not a doctor.

The CDC doesn't consider it a "public health hazard". 90% of cases of HPV resolve on their own, so again who is considering it a "public health hazard"? Do you have any facts regarding how many lives were saved because of Gardasil?

 

[Alt+F4]

Reality.

Evidence?

 

[Unabogie]

The CDC doesn't consider it a "public health hazard". 90% of cases of HPV resolve on their own, so again who is considering it a "public health hazard"? Do you have any facts regarding how many lives were saved because of Gardasil?

In that list, they say thousands of cancers are caused by HPV. Do the women have to die to be considered victims of cancer?

 

[Alt+F4]

In that list, they say thousands of cancers are caused by HPV. Do the women have to die to be considered victims of cancer?

Do you have any evidence that getting the Gardasil vaccine has prevented anyone from getting any type of cancer (cervical, penile, anal). The most common, cervical, is virtually 100 percent curable when found early.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Evidence?

Provided by Unabogie.

 

[Unabogie]

More links.

http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditi...vical-cancer-hpv-what-women-girls-should-know

Certain HPV types are classified as "high-risk" because they lead to abnormal cell changes and can cause genital cancers: cervical cancer as well as cancer of the vulva, anus, and penis. In fact, researchers say that virtually all cervical cancers -- more than 99% -- are caused by these high-risk HPV viruses. The most common of the high-risk strains of HPV are types 16 and 18, which cause about 70% of all cervical cancers.
If the body clears the infection, the cervical cells return to normal. But if the body doesn't clear the infection, the cells in the cervix can continue to change abnormally. This can lead to precancerous changes or cervical cancer.
Rates of Cervical Cancer

Actual cervical cancer is rare in the U.S. because most women get Pap tests and have abnormal cells removed before they turn into cancer. The American Cancer Society predicts that about 11,070 women will find out they have cervical cancer in the U.S. this year. They also say that roughly 3,870 women will die of the disease the same year.