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Is Islam an evil religion?

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Bill Thompson said:
The video says to search online to see that the support of Hamass by Islamic charaties is not an isolated event. It seems that it is right. If you google it, there are many cases.

plus, I was right. You must have watched an edited version of the video. This one is longer and it has sources at the end of the video

Sura 2:16
Sura 16:101
Sura 17:86

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&e...gc.r_pw.&fp=45b2b70f47ef0456&biw=1213&bih=650
Canada finds Islamic charity used "deceptive fundraising" to ...

www.jihadwatch.org/.../canada-finds-islamic-charity-used-deceptive... - Apr 16, 2011 – But the Canada Revenue Agency caught up with this shell game. ... Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by Canada, the U.S., ... Canada finds Islamic charity used "deceptive fundraising" to support Hamas ...

Just use google.

ANd there are references at the end of the video.

I have to ask you something. I suspect you believe as you do because you want to and no amout of evidence will change your mind. Is your belief based on well thought unbaised study or wishful thinking?
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how come the quoted parts of the Koran does not support the claim made in the video?
care to explain?
 
FireGarden said:
I suppose that is what he meant.

I didn't read 17:86 as being about abrogation, though. More of an "I could take it all away and leave with you with nothing. Aren't you lucky I share my wisdom with you?"
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SIGH

You are taking me out of context. If I got a verse wrong it is because I was trying to type it whilst watching the end of the youtube video.'

Which reminds me. Errors happen. Taking a clerical error and exploiting it is a logical fallacy and does not mean the point is invalid. It means that the person making the point is human. If you condem someone for being human, it is you who is wrong.
 
Bill Thompson said:
ANTPogo, would you agree that the true spirit of Islam is one of spreading by the sword,
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No, but that's because there is no such thing as "the true spirit of Islam". There's only what individual Muslims believe. Some would agree with your statement. Many others wouldn't.

and it is, in reality, the "rare radical" who is peaceful and not the other way around?
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It's the rare radical anything who is peaceful and not the other way around. That's kind of what radical means.
 
Bill Thompson said:
What?!?! What are you TALKING about?
Is it possible for you to stick to a subject?
If you don't like the source of my information, just say so.
Why get all raging loony on me? And launch into another personal attack of me? You seem to have a hard time with that. Why is that?

Here, do you trust CNN?

From CNN, for those who love to attack me personally because they cannot stand to be proven wrong:
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-09-10/...nity-al-muhajiroun-british-muslim?_s=PM:WORLD




http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=45b2b70f47ef0456
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why did you use the crackpot source you used first? why not a creddible source to begin with?

I wouldn't be suprised if you belief Obama is a undercover muslim.
 
Bill Thompson said:
SIGH

You are taking me out of context. If I got a verse wrong it is because I was trying to type it whilst watching the end of the youtube video.'

Which reminds me. Errors happen. Taking a clerical error and exploiting it is a logical fallacy and does not mean the point is invalid. It means that the person making the point is human. If you condem someone for being human, it is you who is wrong.
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Neither ANTPogo nor myself condemned you for making an error. We understand it happens.

We also made further points which you have not addressed.
 
Yes, the Quran is full of nonsense. But for every piece of absurdity or vileness that anyone quotes here from that work (and there are plenty to choose from!) suggesting it proves that Islam is worse than the other "Abrahamic" religions, I undertake to produce something worse from the Tanakh, the Mishneh Torah, the Shulchan Aruch, or a Talmudic text. That's a promise.

May I reassure Jewish readers, the presence of obnoxious things in old Jewish texts doesn't mean I think Judaism is worse than other religions - it simply contains, like the others, accumulated baggage which can't easily be thrown out. But no sane Jew would use such texts as a guide to personal or political behaviour. Some insane Jews, like insane Christians or Muslims, do exactly that, however, as I will show if asked. Thus, arguments about the deficiencies of the Quran are irrelevant. Just as such arguments about the Old or New Testaments are equally irrelevant and pointless.

As to "abrogation": plenty of it in the Bible. Example - Ezekiel abrogates the principle that God punishes children for their parents' crimes, which is found both in Exodus and Deuteronomy, and states that people are responsible only for their own sins.
 
Bill Thompson said:
I think your avatar is evil, Brian-M.

I got 64 inbox notifications of content being stripped from the main discussion thread to the "Abandon all Hope". Most contained simply support for my position. This is curious.
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.
There's 182 messages in the AAH thread.. the only ones that "support your position" are yours.
You aren't DOC, also, are you?
 
FireGarden said:
So you've quietly given up your earlier claim:
"...Switzerland where the locals got tired of all the minarets erected."

...by subtly modifying it.
"Can't you understand that the Swiss banned the building of minarets getting tired of Islam?"
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I didn't give up anything, especially not a claim that is easily verifiable; it's just your inherent inability to distinguish central issue from what may work behind the scenes.

Fact: No minaret building permits issued in Switzerland until the ban is lifted.

Question: Was the single-digit number of minarets in Switzerland the sole deciding factor in summoning the voters to resolve the issue?

The inclusion of the possible reasons doesn't negate any claim, as you think it does. That much for all the propaganda designed to lift the atheists to critical-thinking heaven. If someone had asked me what is more rotten, mob-spirited atheism or conservative Islam, I would have said Islam, but reading your reply gives me a second thought.
 
Is Islam an evil religion? No.

Are some of their believers evil? Pretty much,. but this applies to all religions.
 
epix said:
I didn't give up anything, especially not a claim that is easily verifiable; it's just your inherent inability to distinguish central issue from what may work behind the scenes.

Fact: No minaret building permits issued in Switzerland until the ban is lifted.

Question: Was the single-digit number of minarets in Switzerland the sole deciding factor in summoning the voters to resolve the issue?

The inclusion of the possible reasons doesn't negate any claim, as you think it does. That much for all the propaganda designed to lift the atheists to critical-thinking heaven. If someone had asked me what is more rotten, mob-spirited atheism or conservative Islam, I would have said Islam, but reading your reply gives me a second thought.
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your first claim was wrong and was shown to be wrong.

and then you moved the goalposts.

typical Epix fail.
 
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Brian-M said:
Before many of the posts were moved from Ask A Muslim Anything to Abandon All Hope, Bill Thompson was arguing about the evils of Islam (he never actually used the word "evil", but that's the general impression), so I thought I'd open up a thread specifically for people to voice their opinions on the subject.
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One thing that really needs to be emphasized here:

- Have you ever met a Muslim or a Muslim family in the US? Do they strike you as the same sort of people toting AK-47s and sawing the heads off American soldiers? No.

- Ok, how about this: have you ever met a reformed Jew or reform Jewish family here in the US? Do they strike you as the same sorts of people as Orthodox Jews, or at all like the Israelis trading mortars with their Palestinian neighbors?

- One more question: have you ever met a vanilla Christian or Christian family here in the US? Do they strike you as the same sorts of people who live in Amish communities, the Christians who terrorized Muslims and minority Christians during the crusades for 300 years, or Christians in Uganda engaging in "corrective rape" to cure lesbianism in women?

There are lots extremes between adherents who belong to the same religion, and its mostly a cultural phenomenon.

You can't say "Islam is evil" as a statement of sweeping statement of fact. Religious attitudes are shaped by the mores and values of society. For those of us in westernized countries, the vast majority of Muslims are going to be well-integrated into the community, have no particular militant or radical tendencies, will not come across as more or less hostile than anyone else. Islam, by itself, does not appear to breed radicalism here in the US; radical attitudes are nearly always influenced by forces on the outside, mostly cultures where extremism is the norm.

Its not Islam, but its something about the Middle East which drives the humanity out of people -- sinews of violence and desperation are sewn through the culture, they're part of the political climate in the region. I think the culture *creates* radicalization and suppresses everything else. I think Saudi Arabia is the ultimate example of this culture, and yes, its dominant political ideology is evil in the extreme.
 
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Bill Thompson said:
If I am wrong. Show me where I am wrong.
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as i told you in the other thread.
you are wrong in seeing all of islam as your enemy.

i don't view islam as my enemy, anymore than christianity, or buddhism, or any other religion or those people who follow them.

the enemy is a rather nebulous group of various extremists, who are incapable of tempering their ideologies with reason.
although they are in the minority, they unfortunately have great influence,
as can be seen in the strength of the american christian right and muslim fanatics.
both are able to point to their respective holy books as rational for their insanity.
 
Very good, Dessi.
I've said previously that those who can, will leave the violence related to European/Asia Minor Islam to get to normal countries, where they can live quietly and peacefully.
 
Bill Thompson said:
What do you mean?
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The references you gave support the idea that there is abrogation in the Quran. But that was never in doubt. This is the claim from the video:

Most westerners are unaware that the peaceful, tolerant passages were written early in Mohammad's prophetic career.

According to the Qur'an, those passages have been abrogated by later, more violent and less tolerant passages.
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Merely confirming that there is such a thing as abrogation is not enough to back up the claim.

And that is why I have asked you to show where 2:190 "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors" is abrogated.

Please quote the verse which says "Fight, even before they attack you. Lo! God loves the aggressors."
 
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