Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Clayton Moore]

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*Unfairly labeled* as anti-semitic.

I cannot cite a single such site. AFAIK, none exist.

And besides, it was not my claim that any a site would be unfairly labeled solely for the reason of discussing Jewish or Israeli spies. That was *your* suggestion.

Can you actually point us to *one* such site?
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Wow. Just provide a list of antisemitic sites.

 

[TSR]

Wow. Just provide a list of antisemitic sites.

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No, I shall not play your game.

*You* support *your* claim by providing even one site unfairly labeled as anti-semitic solely for discussing Jewish or Israeli spies.

Just one.

And having done so, if you care to debate the existence of anti-semitic sites, I will hand you your head. Again.
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[Clayton Moore]

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No, I shall not play your game.

*You* support *your* claim by providing even one site unfairly labeled as anti-semitic solely for discussing Jewish or Israeli spies.

Just one.

And having done so, if you care to debate the existence of anti-semitic sites, I will hand you your head. Again.
.

You wanna wager and I'm making a claim. That's a riot.


Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

So what site wouldn't be considered anti-semitic that talked about Jewish spies?

Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
You have yet to establish that such exists.


Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

So you're saying any site that cited instances of Jewish Americans spying for Israel would be considered anti-semitic.

You're wasting your double talk on the wrong person.

 

[TSR]

You wanna wager and I'm making a claim. That's a riot.

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You have the time line confused.

First, you made a claim.

Only then did I propose a wager that you would not be able to support that claim.

One which you would lose because you cannot.

Further, you *know* that you cannot, and so are doing everything in your power to distract from that impotent inability.

It's not a riot, it's par for the course that you make a claim and then run from supporting it.
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[LemmyCaution]

The disease of antisemitism is like no other. As beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the disease of antisemitism is venom from the heart of the accuser. It's a weapon of disdain and hate.

You haven't read any of the speeches, ideological writings, or press of the Nazis, have you? They were proud to call themselves antisemites and to hate Jews.

 

[Saggy]

You haven't read any of the speeches, ideological writings, or press of the Nazis, have you? They were proud to call themselves antisemites and to hate Jews.

The Nazis? Anti-semitism has existed as long as the Jews have existed - this is from a review of Israel Shahak's 'Three Thousand Years of Jewish History'....

"When the Roman historian Tacitus pointed out 19 centuries ago that the Jews are unique among the peoples of the world in their intense hatred and contempt for all peoples but their own, he was only repeating what many other scholars had discovered before him. For the next 1,900 years other investigators came to similar conclusions, either from a study of the Jews' religious writings or from a study of the Jews' behavior toward non-Jews."

 

[jargon buster]

Jews are unique among the peoples of the world in their intense hatred and contempt for all peoples but their own,

I know several jewish families and we get on fine, so thats that busted.

I think that you will find a lot of amazonian forest tribes don't care for each other either, why do you think its just jews?

 

[uke2se]

The Nazis? Anti-semitism has existed as long as the Jews have existed - this is from a review of Israel Shahak's 'Three Thousand Years of Jewish History'....

"When the Roman historian Tacitus pointed out 19 centuries ago that the Jews are unique among the peoples of the world in their intense hatred and contempt for all peoples but their own, he was only repeating what many other scholars had discovered before him. For the next 1,900 years other investigators came to similar conclusions, either from a study of the Jews' religious writings or from a study of the Jews' behavior toward non-Jews."

You do know that a book review written by a Nazi (possibly yourself, given your earlier Wiki faux pas) doesn't prove anything, right?

 

[LemmyCaution]

The Nazis? Anti-semitism has existed . . .

So what? Leaving your confused quotation aside, Clayton's point was that "the disease of antisemitism is venom from the heart of the accuser. It's a weapon of disdain and hate," rather than a proud tradition shared by and "improved" by the Nazis. You've pretty much rubbished Clayton's point, thank you. My point was, of course, to refer him to the antisemites who are the focus of this forum, not to other antisemites who have existed in other times and places.

 

[Corsair 115]

The Nazis? Anti-semitism has existed as long as the Jews have existed...[/I]

But the Nazi regime made anti-semitism official government policy.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I read this story just now and it brought tears to my eyes.

She was Jewish, but to live she needed a Christian name.

She could not be Natalie Leya Weinstein, not in wartime Warsaw. Her father wrote her new name on a piece of paper.

Natalie Yazinska.

Her mother, Sima, sobbed.

"The little one must make it," Leon Weinstein told his wife. "We got no chance. But the little one, she is special. She must survive."

He fixed a metal crucifix to a necklace and hung it on their daughter. On the paper, he scrawled another fiction: "I am a war widow, and I have no way of taking care of her. I beg of you good people, please take care of her. In the name of Jesus Christ, he will take care of you for this."

A cold wind cut at the skin that December morning, so Leon Weinstein bundled Natalie, 18 months old, in heavy pants and a thick wool sweater. He headed for a nearby apartment, the home of a lawyer and his wife. The couple did not have a child. Weinstein hoped they wanted one.

He lay Natalie on their front step. Tears ran down his cheeks. You will make it, he thought. She had blond locks and blue eyes. They will think you are a Gentile, not one of us.

Walking away, he could hear her whimper, but forced himself not to look back until he crossed the street. Then he turned and saw a man step out of the apartment. The man read Weinstein's note. He puzzled over the baby.

Cradling Natalie in his arms, the man walked half a block to a police station and disappeared inside.

Weinstein was beside himself.

What if the Gestapo took her from the police?

What if they decided that she was a Jew?

Today, at his small Spanish-style home in Mid-City, Weinstein, 101, recalls in agonizing detail what it was like to give up his baby in 1941 amid the Nazi juggernaut. He is frail, but his wit and memory are keen. He remembers well what followed: killing Germans, dodging death, hunting for Natalie.

Holocaust scholars vouch for his account, calling him one of the last living fighters from the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, almost certainly the oldest.

For years, Weinstein kept his memories buried.

No more.​

Those of you who deny the Holocaust, God damn you all to hell.

 

[little grey rabbit]

I read this story just now and it brought tears to my eyes.

She was Jewish, but to live she needed a Christian name.

She could not be Natalie Leya Weinstein, not in wartime Warsaw. Her father wrote her new name on a piece of paper.

Natalie Yazinska.

Her mother, Sima, sobbed.

"The little one must make it," Leon Weinstein told his wife. "We got no chance. But the little one, she is special. She must survive."

He fixed a metal crucifix to a necklace and hung it on their daughter. On the paper, he scrawled another fiction: "I am a war widow, and I have no way of taking care of her. I beg of you good people, please take care of her. In the name of Jesus Christ, he will take care of you for this."

A cold wind cut at the skin that December morning, so Leon Weinstein bundled Natalie, 18 months old, in heavy pants and a thick wool sweater. He headed for a nearby apartment, the home of a lawyer and his wife. The couple did not have a child. Weinstein hoped they wanted one.

He lay Natalie on their front step. Tears ran down his cheeks. You will make it, he thought. She had blond locks and blue eyes. They will think you are a Gentile, not one of us.

Walking away, he could hear her whimper, but forced himself not to look back until he crossed the street. Then he turned and saw a man step out of the apartment. The man read Weinstein's note. He puzzled over the baby.

Cradling Natalie in his arms, the man walked half a block to a police station and disappeared inside.

Weinstein was beside himself.

What if the Gestapo took her from the police?

What if they decided that she was a Jew?

Today, at his small Spanish-style home in Mid-City, Weinstein, 101, recalls in agonizing detail what it was like to give up his baby in 1941 amid the Nazi juggernaut. He is frail, but his wit and memory are keen. He remembers well what followed: killing Germans, dodging death, hunting for Natalie.

Holocaust scholars vouch for his account, calling him one of the last living fighters from the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, almost certainly the oldest.

For years, Weinstein kept his memories buried.

No more.​

Those of you who deny the Holocaust, God damn you all to hell.

Did Leon Weinstein tell this story before he reached 101? There is such an insatiable demand for Holokitsch since the 1970s I would have thought it would have been lapped up.

Searching Google archives only finds this

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes...ETTO+UPRISING+TO+BE+COMMEMORATED&pqatl=google

However, I don't pretend this is definitive. Certainly the August 2011 story has multiplied across the web.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Anyway, it appears Leon Weinstein killed one of the very few Germans to have died in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising (2 of them were by Russian bombs)

One day he was crouched on the second floor of an abandoned building when he heard the footsteps of Nazi troops on the stairs.

It's over, he told himself.

He looked out a window. A solitary soldier stood guard below.

Weinstein leaped. His steel-toed boots slammed into the soldier's head. "He fell like a sack of stones," Weinstein says. "I could see his skull, his blood, brains. For killing a man who hunted me, I felt nothing but good — and I was so excited I felt no pain.

"I was alive at least for another day."

Weinstein hid in sewers that swarmed with rats and human waste. He eventually found a way out that seemed safe, but was too weak to lift the iron cover.

Was this how he would die?

He fell asleep and dreamed of his grandfather, a deeply religious man. " 'You must keep going,'" his grandfather told him. "'You must. Don't stop.'"

He also says he was reunited with his daughter.

His first stop was the street where he'd left his little girl. It was mostly rubble, but one building stood untouched — the police station.

He walked in. "Do you remember hearing about an abandoned girl who was taken here?"

One officer did. The girl had been taken to a nearby convent.

The nuns there remembered, too. The baby was among several they tried to shelter. Disease claimed some, but the baby named Natalie survived. When the fighting drew near, she was sent to a cloister in the countryside.

Over bombed-out roads, pedaling hard on his bicycle, Weinstein made his way there. But Natalie was gone, sent to another group of nuns. On he went, to convent after convent, sometimes sleeping in fields.

The story was the same. Natalie had been there, but nobody knew where she was now. Nobody knew if she was alive.

After six months, Weinstein returned to the city, exhausted.

Then, against all hope, he decided to visit a convent near the ghetto. He walked past a statue of the Virgin Mary, then into a hall where dozens of pale, thin orphans stood.

"Mister, mister." They grabbed at his tall, brown boots. "Mister, mister, take me, take me."

As he drew away, frustrated, a nun walked past, carrying a bony, blond girl, who looked about 4. He looked into the child's eyes. They were blue.

This, he said, was Natalie.

"She is yours?" the nun asked. "How can we know?"

"If she is," Weinstein said, "then she has a little brown birthmark, the size of a pencil eraser, just near her right hip."

The nun lifted the girl's dirty gray shirt and they looked.

He had found Natalie.

Weinstein and Natalie moved to France.

I suppose it could be true. It hardly has any bearing on whether or not their were homicidal gas chambers.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Just another lie. This time Weinstein was the liar.




Quote:

One day he was crouched on the second floor of an abandoned building when he heard the footsteps of Nazi troops on the stairs.

It's over, he told himself.

He looked out a window. A solitary soldier stood guard below.

Weinstein leaped. His steel-toed boots slammed into the soldier's head. "He fell like a sack of stones," Weinstein says. "I could see his skull, his blood, brains. For killing a man who hunted me, I felt nothing but good — and I was so excited I felt no pain.

"I was alive at least for another day."

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Just another lie. This time Weinstein was the liar.

Because he is a jew, right?

Disgusting.

 

[TSR]

Just another lie.

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Got any of that, you know, evidence thingy showing that this was a knowing untruth?

You know, like the evidence that you cannot point to a single lie on the THHP site, making your claim that *they* are the liars itself a lie?

My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is.
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This time Weinstein was the liar.

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Got any of that, you know, evidence thingy showing that Weinstein knew this was an untruth?

You know, like the evidence that you cannot point us to an actually study by Krege or even the raw data from zir survey, making your claim that zir work "proves" anything a lie?

My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is.
.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Because he is a jew, right?

Disgusting.

What's disgusting and pathetic is that lies and liars are accepted.

Guy is wearing steel toed boots?

Guy jumps out of a second floor window and the tip(s) of boots hit the soldier/guard of an abandoned building in the head hard enough to see the guards brains.

Landing toes first as opposed to soles first sounds like a sprained/broken ankle to me.

Guy jumps out of a second floor window and lingers to see the damage he has done to the soldier/guard?


The soldier/guard was not wearing a helmet?

The guy manages to elude soldiers after killing one.

 

[TSR]

What's disgusting and pathetic is that lies and liars are accepted.

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But your lies *aren't* accepted.

You know, like your dishonest claims about THHP and Krege ...
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Guy is wearing steel toed boots?

Guy jumps out of a second floor window and the tip(s) of boots hit the soldier/guard of an abandoned building in the head hard enough to see the guards brains.

Landing toes first as opposed to soles first sounds like a sprained/broken ankle to me.

Guy jumps out of a second floor window and lingers to see the damage he has done to the soldier/guard?

The soldier/guard was not wearing a helmet?

The guy manages to elude soldiers after killing one.

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BTW, "I don't want to believe it" is evidence of nothing but straw grasping.

Got any of that, you know, evidence thingy showing that any of this was objectively impossible and therefore a knowing untruth?

You know, like the evidence that you cannot point us to an actually study by Krege or even the raw data from zir survey, making your claim that zir work "proves" anything a lie that you cannot point to a single lie on the THHP site, making your claim that *they* are the liars itself a lie?

My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is.
.

 

[LemmyCaution]

BTW, "I don't want to believe it" is evidence of nothing but straw grasping.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." Einstein.

 

[LemmyCaution]

My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is.

Hmmmm. "Denier"? I dunno . . .