So what kind of people do you think will read post #100 and then decide Islam is the religion for them?
So what kind of people do you think will read post #100 and then decide Islam is the religion for them?
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
The reasons for Jesus' non-ownership of slaves are many, but for the sake of simplicity we'll just mention his non-existance. I'm pretty sure that trumps all the other reasons.
And while we're on the subject, we may as well note that those who made up things for the mythical Jesus to say certainly condoned slavery. It's seems logical to conclude that they would have owned slaves, if they'd had the wherewithall to afford them.
You have no idea how Jesus spoke about anything.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Don't I remember from your other thread(s) that Jesus condoned slavery and even had rules on how to beat them properly?
Muhammad would have been a product of his time and since women were not respected fully had to go along with that to have everyone listen to the message.
Anyway, I've started to read the Quran based on your recommendation of Muhammad and I must say it is much better than the bible - and I am only reading an English translation. Thank you so much for opening my eyes to the truth.
Lol - funny crosspost. Didn't see it before!
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Lothian
should be banned
Luke 2:23 As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord
Timbo 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Pete 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel
Looks like Jesus values women lower than men. How much lower? Lets see what he said in another guise
Leviticus 27
27:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
...
27:3 And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
27:4 And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.
27:5 And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
27:6 And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.
27:7 And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
27:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
...
27:3 And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
27:4 And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.
27:5 And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
27:6 And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.
27:7 And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
Between half and two thirds. Bit of a misogynist this jesus/god fella
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Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Timbo.
Christ said "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". The bible says slaves were equal before God which was light years ahead of most other ways of thinking of the time. And I've explained the "parable" of the servant probably 10 times in those threads, I'm not going for 11 at this time.
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Lothian
should be banned
About 2000 years after it was a widely accepted philosophy
and the slavery abolition act says
"Provided also, and be it further enacted, That all Slaves who may at any Time previous to the passing of this Act have been brought with the Consent of their Possessors, and all apprenticed Labourers who may hereafter with the like Consent be brought, into any part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, shall from and after the passing of this Act be absolutely and entirely free to all Intents and Purposes whatsoever"
Which word caused Jesus such difficulty?
And you have had explained 110 times that you use the word "explain" incorrectly.
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Isn't Jesus the Father the son and the holy ghost....three in one and one in three....so Jesus is YHWH....right?
Well as YHWH Jesus COMMANDED slavery, women abuse, rape of virgins and little girls, denigration of women, human sacrifice, infanticide (and committed it).
As YHWH Jesus confessed that he is the AUTHOR OF EVIL and the DECEIVER of prophets… so he must have deceived Muhammad.
But here are some New Testament verses regarding Women and Slavery....just in case you argue that the OT is null and void.
By the way....you are under a huge delusion since Jesus says you are
1 Thessalonians 11-12
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Slavery
Matthew 10:24
“The student is not above the teacher, nor a servant above his master.
The entire epistle of Philemon...is about Paul returning a runaway slave to his master (both are christians) and Paul begging the master to not punish the slave....nary a word about freeing him or that at least christians should not enslave each other at the very least.
Colossians 3:22-24
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.
Titus 2:9-10
Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
1 Corinthians 7:20-22
Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them. Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave.
1 Peter 2:18-21
Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
Ephesians 6:5-8
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
Even in the END TIMES there is going to be kings and slaves
Revelation 19:17-18
And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
Women
1 Timothy 2:
8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
1 Corinthians 11:
3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.
7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.
1 Corinthians 34:
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
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Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
The people who wrote the things that the alleged Jesus was alleged to have said included it because it was central to ideas of justice and morality that developed millenia before they came to assemble their fairytale.
No, attempting to justify one's actions because they're deemed to be OK with an imaginary bearded sky fairy isn't ahead of anything at all. It's backward and superstitious at best, although in truth it's just loathesomely dishonest and immoral.
Despite being one of your most avid readers (the Aten help me) I have yet to see you explain anything.
UNTRUE..... here is a quote from the Greek Philosopher Zeno Of Citium (300 BCE)
No matter whether you claim a slave by purchase or capture, the title is bad. They who claim to own their fellow-men, look down into the pit and forget the justice that should rule the world.
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YHWH The SLAVER
So why was Jesus so INCAPABLE within the PLETHORA of parables and words and in between all these miracles to have said OUTRIGHT with no unclear terms:
SLAVERY IS BAD....YOU SHOULD NOT ENSLAVE EACH OTHER.
Why could he not have said this as clearly as saying PLUCK YOUR EYES OUT if they offend thee?
As YHWH he ordained, commanded, regulated and constituted slavery.
So did he change his mind later? Why aren't Paul, Peter, James, Timothy clear about it? Why did they not learn from Jesus that slavery is bad and if they did why do they order slaves to OBEY and SUFFER the abuses of their masters?
Why couldn't Jesus be CLEAR about changing his mind....why did he say
If he wanted all the SLAVERY LAWS and REGULATIONS to be stopped he surely did not make it clear and according to the above verses IT IS LEGAL BY THE LAW to own and buy slaves and beat them to ALMOST DEATH.
Exodus 21:20-21
So why was Jesus so INCAPABLE within the PLETHORA of parables and words and in between all these miracles to have said OUTRIGHT with no unclear terms:
SLAVERY IS BAD....YOU SHOULD NOT ENSLAVE EACH OTHER.
Why could he not have said this as clearly as saying PLUCK YOUR EYES OUT if they offend thee?
As YHWH he ordained, commanded, regulated and constituted slavery.
So did he change his mind later? Why aren't Paul, Peter, James, Timothy clear about it? Why did they not learn from Jesus that slavery is bad and if they did why do they order slaves to OBEY and SUFFER the abuses of their masters?
Why couldn't Jesus be CLEAR about changing his mind....why did he say
Matthew {5:17} Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {5:18} For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. {5:19} Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven
If he wanted all the SLAVERY LAWS and REGULATIONS to be stopped he surely did not make it clear and according to the above verses IT IS LEGAL BY THE LAW to own and buy slaves and beat them to ALMOST DEATH.
Exodus 21:20-21
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
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EventHorizon
Atheist Tergiversator
I'm curious as to what the Bible and the Koran say about shemales.
Philemon appears to abrogate the institution of slavery in Christianity. Onesimus is freed at Paul's request. Some archaeological evidence suggests this event actually happened. Archaeology professor at Wheaton College, John McRay, wrote a book "Archaeology and the New Testament" that describes the discovery of a statue in Laodicea dedicated to Marcus Sestius Philemon for freeing his slave. He's probably bias, but I haven't seen this find's authenticity refuted or even questioned.
Your quotes are from Paul so it's not fair to historically attribute these quotes to Jesus even if Paul said Jesus spoke from beyond the grave. Your Thessalonians quote is describing how God deludes non-believers into believing something other than Christianity and you cited it incorrectly. It's 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12. How you could misread that to think the writer is referring to Christians is beyond me.
It's important to criticize Christianity correctly and responsibly. Otherwise, you won't have a clear understanding of the history of Western civilization.
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Show me where in Philemon does it abrogate slavery? Where does it say that Onesimus was freed? Please cite verse references.
You cannot just read between the lines….Why would Paul not have included ONE SENTENCE to see…”Free him”….or…. “It is not right for men to own other men”…. Or …. “As Christians we should not own other men”….. or …. “Christians should not enslave other Christians”
ONE SENTENCE….. he took the time to tell slaves to OBEY….but never said Christians should FREE slaves they already own and never own any … He never said it is WRONG to own slave……I don’t think anyone could argue and contort and wriggle and slither DESIRED meaning into the words…. “SLAVERY IS WRONG…YOU SHOULD NOT OWN PEOPLE like cattle”…. Why is there nowhere in the NT such an admonition?
If we are not to take what Paul or other people said that Jesus did or said then we cannot know anything about Jesus....since the entire NT is nothing but what other people said Jesus did or said.
In other words if we are to discount Paul's testament and teachings about what Jesus wanted....we should also discount the Gospels and the other books in the NT on the same basis.....where does that leave Jesus?
You cannot CHERRY PICK the bits that suit you to claim the nice Jesus….. and then BS pick the bits about Muhammad to claim the bad Muhammad.
Besides…. Do you want me to quote JESUS in his persona as YHWH from the OT…..that is RIFE with amazingly bad stuff…..If we were to take the alter ego of Jesus (YHWH) then Jesus is an
Infanticidal, Megalomaniacal, Homicidal, Racist, LYING, RAPING, INCESTUAL, Jealous, Lustful, Gluttonous, Greedy, Slothful, Envious, Vain, Pompous, Wrathful, Vengeful, Deceitful, Egotistical, Malevolent, Benighted MORON
All the above traits can be proven through the Bible itself…..READ THE BIBLE.
And don't forget the discrimination between a female baby and a male baby in how much they SOIL their mother and how long she has to stay UNCLEAN after giving birth.....it shows that a baby girl is TWICE as DIRTY as a baby boy.....or in other words ....the FEMALE IS HALF THE MALE in value.....sounds like Muhammad was not so far off after all.
Leviticus 12
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over.
5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.
6 “‘When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering.[a] 7 He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.
“‘These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl. 8 But if she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.’”
5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.
6 “‘When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering.[a] 7 He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.
“‘These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl. 8 But if she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.’”
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