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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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ufology said:
Well an argument from authority is better than an argument from no authority ... which is what the skeptics here consistently offer. Simply stating "agument from authority" doesn't negate its value without evidence showing how it does ... so show us how the USAF Chief of Staff couldn't tell the difference between fairies and and a structured metallic flying object of unknown origin.

j.r.
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I'm almost tempted to ask you to explain the difference yourself.

In fact, I will.

I'll make it easy for you: I'll present all the evidence for fairies and you can present all the evidence for structured metallic flying objects of unknown origin and we'll weigh it all up.
 
tomi71 said:
Why are you so worried about ET-theory? Why so much emotion upon it? That´s strange?
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Hey Tomi ... It's just what they have been conditioned to do and it's easy to use that conditioning to pick on the ETH. They only know one trick and that is to have a very narrow definition of evidence based on the scientific method, which they mistakenly and pseudoskeptically portray as infallible, and then they just dismiss any other evidence, particularly anecdotal evidence because they erroneously think it has zero value.

j.r.
 
ufology said:
Hey Tomi ... It's just what they have been conditioned to do and it's easy to use that conditioning to pick on the ETH. They only know one trick and that is to have a very narrow definition of evidence based on the scientific method, which they mistakenly and pseudoskeptically portray as infallible, and then they just dismiss any other evidence, particularly anecdotal evidence because they erroneously think it has zero value.

j.r.
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They, Kemo Sabe?
 
Looks like someone just received the new shipment of straw!
ufology said:
Hey Tomi ... It's just what they have been conditioned to do
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Evidence?

and it's easy to use that conditioning to pick on the ETH.
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Why do you believe that?

They only know one trick and that is to have a very narrow definition of evidence based on the scientific method
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How close-minded!

which they mistakenly and pseudoskeptically portray as infallible
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Evidence?

and then they just dismiss any other evidence, particularly anecdotal evidence because they erroneously think it has zero value.

j.r.
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Because it does have zero value for confirming the existence of non-mundane things. Haven't you been paying attention?
 
Resume said:
Or geese-theory.
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CLOSE-ENCOUNTERS-2.jpg


It's just a shame they couldn't have been mink or some such animal.
Close Encounters of the Furred Kind would have been much better. :D
 
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tomi71 said:
...Is is an ET. We don´t know. Capiche!

You seem to know, that it ain´t. Why`?
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No one here has actually said what these are or are not.

It's just that ETH is the most implausible of explanations out of any given list of plausible explanations.

The real problem with this thread is that bleevers never actually consider ANY alternatives to ETH, but pretend that they have gone through some fictitious method of elemination in order to declare that the ONLY remaining explanation is ETH.

The rest of us are more inquisitive and through application of the scientific method, actual research and application of critical thinking, explore ALL possible explanations, instead of taking the a priori stance that ETH is the most plausible explanation.
 
tomi71 said:
I am sure that this depends on "how difficult the phenomenon is to put into a normal standards". This black and white thinking isn´t solving anything. I might sometimes consider myself into a believer (of anecdotal evidence that support ET-hypothesis) but still when I did see that flying "moon" I have not yet jump into any conclusions of ET, which I think many of even you might have done even though you consider yourself rational, sceptical minds.

I bet that no one can predict how one feels, when really seeing something totally unorthrodox and strange.

I hope you do.
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This actually happened to me. I can assure you that I am not making up one detail about this story. About 10 years ago, I was deep asleep in my bed when I heard a loud noise outside my window, which faces a large tree. When I sat up in bed and looked out the window, I saw what appeared to be a large fireball hit the tree, but it quickly extinguished. Then I saw a small slender shape (which I took to be a woman) holding some kind of light source (lamp? candle?) walk from the tree towards the front door of my house. I got out of bed and rushed to the front door of my house to see what this was. I had chills, I was scared, but I still wanted to know. I opened the door and . . . . nothing. No fire, no woman, nothing out of the ordinary.

Now, my heart was racing and I was kind of freaked out. It took me a few minutes to gather my senses but once I did I pieced together what must have happened. It must have been a dream. Never once did my mind scream "GHOST! ALIEN! BOOGEYMAN!" I know, rationally, that the overwhelming likelihood is that I was dreaming and didn't actually wake up until I jumped out of bed to rush to the front door. Could it have been some weird paranormal experience? It certainly seemed real enough at the time and I guess there's a very very off chance that it could have been. But I have no evidence other than my own experience and there are a number of factors that could have compromised my perceptions at that time.

A believer would have fitted this dream into what ever belief they cling to.
 
a post so nice he made it twice!

tomi71 said:
C´mon. We all know there is the phenomena,
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The phenomenon is people seeing or imagining or inventing things and saying OMG Aliens!

tomi71 said:
are you really saying it isn´t!
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Isn't aliens? Not enough evidence - no one has ever proven that aliens visit earth. If they could just prove one, that would make all of this more likely.

Isn't a phenomenon? Sure it is. They have online clubs and everything. Plus don't forget the movies. And the FLIR.

tomi71 said:
Is [it] an ET. We don´t know. Capiche!
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Yes! Capisco!
:bigclap

tomi71 said:
You seem to know, that it ain´t. Why`?
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tomi71, you seem nice enough, and I really want to make sure that we are communicating clearly here.

The burden of proof is on the guy making the claim. ufology and Rramjet claim that the stuff they saw is not of this earth. Outer-worldly dudes piloting physical "craft" in the sky.

All they have to do is prove it. Why don't they focus on that? Remember the null hypothesis? It's just sitting there, waiting to be falsified.

When we suggest (well actually prove in both their cases) that they have faulty perception and memory, and all they have is a cool story, they haven't proven that they remember they think they saw anything at all. Especially not an alien-piloted craft. The mean-spirited skeptics are doing all of the legwork here, positing all kinds of potential solutions for what they might have seen, but, wait for it...

The ufology guys that believe in aliens piloting craft (with no evidence) don't want to find out what they saw. They have no curiousity about it. One of them wrote it down, "transcribed" it, and then just dismissed it as "just another UFO sighting" - ho hum. Another guy started a topic here called "skeptics vs. knowers/believers" - He wants to believe in aliens visiting the earth. It's faith-based. Pointing that out is not mean-spirited; it's just reality.

Capisce?
 
xjx388 said:
This actually happened to me. I can assure you that I am not making up one detail about this story. About 10 years ago, I was deep asleep in my bed when I heard a loud noise outside my window, which faces a large tree. When I sat up in bed and looked out the window, I saw what appeared to be a large fireball hit the tree, but it quickly extinguished. Then I saw a small slender shape (which I took to be a woman) holding some kind of light source (lamp? candle?) walk from the tree towards the front door of my house. I got out of bed and rushed to the front door of my house to see what this was. I had chills, I was scared, but I still wanted to know. I opened the door and . . . . nothing. No fire, no woman, nothing out of the ordinary.

Now, my heart was racing and I was kind of freaked out. It took me a few minutes to gather my senses but once I did I pieced together what must have happened. It must have been a dream. Never once did my mind scream "GHOST! ALIEN! BOOGEYMAN!" I know, rationally, that the overwhelming likelihood is that I was dreaming and didn't actually wake up until I jumped out of bed to rush to the front door. Could it have been some weird paranormal experience? It certainly seemed real enough at the time and I guess there's a very very off chance that it could have been. But I have no evidence other than my own experience and there are a number of factors that could have compromised my perceptions at that time.

A believer would have fitted this dream into what ever belief they cling to.
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That is a very interesting story ... thanks for that!

j.r.
 
ufology said:
You forgot to mention that some of the real events are actually "real and not visionary or fictitious, that there were objects in the shape of a disc, metallic in appearance, and as big as man-made aircraft. They were characterized by extreme rates of climb [and] maneuverability, general lack of noise, absence of trail, occasional formation flying, and evasive behavior when sighted or contacted by friendly aircraft and radar, suggesting a controlled craft." - General Nathan Twining Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force - I think he could tell the difference between the above an fairies.
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All that is evidence for the existence of UFOs. It is not evidence for the existence of alien visitors.
 
ufology said:
That is a very interesting story ... thanks for that!

j.r.
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No problem! Do you see how it illustrates that:

1. A skeptical mindset is useful when confronting strange experiences?
2. Eyewitness testimony is a very poor kind of evidence?
3. That in order to draw a conclusion, we need to have evidence other than our own or somebody else's perceptions?
 
ufology said:
Hey Tomi ... It's just what they have been conditioned to do and it's easy to use that conditioning to pick on the ETH. They only know one trick and that is to have a very narrow definition of evidence based on the scientific method, which they mistakenly and pseudoskeptically portray as infallible, and then they just dismiss any other evidence, particularly anecdotal evidence because they erroneously think it has zero value.
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So you take the Rramjet route huh? "Can't find evidence so let's redefine anecdotes so it means evidence"
 
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