Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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By the way, the civil disobedience in London is being dramatically exaggerated for effect by the media. I live in West-Central London, and I have neither seen nor heard a single problem with my own eyes over the past few days (although I happen to know someone who was burned out from her flat in Ealing last night :(). It's worth remembering that Greater London (i.e. not even including the outer suburbs) is around 600 square miles in area, with around 8 million inhabitants. The trouble has taken place in probably around 20 square miles (maximum) of those 600, and probably only around 1,000 people maximum (out of 8 million) have been actively committing criminal acts. Context is everything......

If you are so inclined, there is a thread on this subject here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216173
 
(BTW: I promise to transition over to the Lockerbie threads before long - just tying up the loose ends here first.....)

Oh dear...if you're leaving, I hope you don't do so before I get to find out more about that T_lag study!

(Specifically, I was hoping to find out the explanation for why that particular study showed a median lag time of 81.5 minutes versus circa 20 minutes in other studies, and thereby to try to get a more accurate idea of what the probability is that an increase in these factors could cause a lag time of 240 minutes or more.)
 
thats really interesting. so there was another squad that did the fingerprint work. and I was wrong, in thinking , the fingerprint came from his botched burglary in Milan.

The cites for all the above come from Darkness Descending which I find a questionable resource but none the less Giancomo speaks w/ RG on Nov 16th as well...

There were 14 unidentified whole or partial prints ...only one print was found of AK which lead the police to a cleanup line of thinking...but even the fingerprint expert disagreed with that line of reasoning.

I’m not ready to give up this chicken or egg just yet...because I seem to remember Giancomo coming forward first in another book and then the police quickly tying the loose ends together. Darkness Descending also calls Rudy the Baron...and they allude that this Baron had a spell on AK as they were certain she met him earlier and called him the most beautiful black man she had ever seen. Even though there is zero proof of any of that and in spite of the fact Rudy called himself Lebron...after the famous basketball star...last name James I think. Which leads me to think this is another lost in translation made up story to titillate rather than inform.

I’m ready to say maybe the police did an adequate job here...but I’m going to do more checking first...hey its a skeptics site after all...
 
Stint is the AK prof who hates her and posts harmful lies about her from the university computers...or maybe not?

There is no such person.

There have been rumors that "Fly By Night" is a University of Washington employee. (I don't know if those rumors are true.) However, I have never come across any suggestion that anyone who has ever actually had AK as a student has had anything bad to say about her, let alone posted on guilter forums.

Indeed, some of Amanda's instructors have visited her in prison in Italy.
 
There is no such person.

There have been rumors that "Fly By Night" is a University of Washington employee. (I don't know if those rumors are true.) However, I have never come across any suggestion that anyone who has ever actually had AK as a student has had anything bad to say about her, let alone posted on guilter forums.

Indeed, some of Amanda's instructors have visited her in prison in Italy.

"Fly By Night" has been open about the fact that he is a University of Washington employee. He wrote about it on this page at 3:15 p.m., Thursday, March 24, 2011.
 
__________________

John,

The Oggi article is mistaken. It's a photograph of one of Rudy's bloody shoe prints in Meredith's room.

///.

Ah!!!! Thanks for the correction! I wondered why we hadn't heard more about this print! Dempsey really should have corrected her online article accordingly.

If someone can get their hands on the full resolution photos that Ron Hendry used for his analysis - we should see if it is possible to tweak the photo (contrast etc) to get a couple rings of Rudy's Outbreak shoes from the dust left by footprints on the clothes in Filomoena's room.
shoeprints: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/rh88.JPG
orig article for context: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry2-----a.html
 
Oooh, the race is on! You reckon the "three months to live" Libyan will have his conviction overturned before Knox/Sollecito are acquitted?! Now I'm interested!

(BTW: I promise to transition over to the Lockerbie threads before long - just tying up the loose ends here first.....)


I'm intrigued by this suggestion as well. Rolfe, is a new development imminent in the Lockerbie case?

I would add that few things would please me more.


Bear in mind that I may be indulging in premature gloating. Let's just say that I think I've pinpointed the golden hare, but it hasn't been dug up yet.

As regards formal quashing of the conviction, IANAL, but I suspect that takes longer than a couple of months. However, if it is revealed that he didn't do it and couldn't have done it because what he was convicted of doing never happened in the first place, I'd call that a result.

Rolfe.
 
Bear in mind that I may be indulging in premature gloating. Let's just say that I think I've pinpointed the golden hare, but it hasn't been dug up yet.

As regards formal quashing of the conviction, IANAL, but I suspect that takes longer than a couple of months. However, if it is revealed that he didn't do it and couldn't have done it because what he was convicted of doing never happened in the first place, I'd call that a result.

Rolfe.

Well, it looks like you're keeping your cards close to your chest. Even so, your bet was in terms of the Lockerbie conviction becoming "universally acknowledged to be holed below the waterline". There's enough information in the public domain for that to be the case already, but I don't see it happening.

When it doesn't happen for the 2 young students in the Kercher case (an American and an Italian), why should it for Al-Megrahi - a Libyan with far less visible public support?
 
Oh dear...if you're leaving, I hope you don't do so before I get to find out more about that T_lag study!

(Specifically, I was hoping to find out the explanation for why that particular study showed a median lag time of 81.5 minutes versus circa 20 minutes in other studies, and thereby to try to get a more accurate idea of what the probability is that an increase in these factors could cause a lag time of 240 minutes or more.)


Eeek! I genuinely forgot about this! I will try to follow up properly today. Apologies!!!!
 
This is one reason I don't care for that blog. It is not accurate. There have been photos available that show the duvet was bloody for ages. There is a great deal of blood on the duvet and the butterfly pattern shows it was not only tossed over MK while she was still bleeding but it was moved more than once. The pattern shows stains that would have come from her bleeding neck in three different places in a row of movement.

I don't know why the duvet was moved after being placed over her. Perhaps this was movement made while covering MK with it, making slight adjustments to cover her fully. In that case the smallest stain would have touched her bleeding neck first and then the second and then the final largest stain in the final position the duvet was left to cover her.


http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/duvet.html

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_401664e415ebf9ea2c.jpg[/qimg]

Thank you. There's certainly blood on that duvet. So Maundy Gregory is simply wrong about this. It wasn´t put over the body after the blodd had dried.

I think MG is wrong about what a staged break-in could prove too. Theoretically even a proven break-in still isn't evidence in itself that Knox and Sollecito participated in a murder. Not without a murder weapon and something or someone to put them at the murder scene at the time of the crime.
 
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Bear in mind that I may be indulging in premature gloating. Let's just say that I think I've pinpointed the golden hare, but it hasn't been dug up yet.

As regards formal quashing of the conviction, IANAL, but I suspect that takes longer than a couple of months. However, if it is revealed that he didn't do it and couldn't have done it because what he was convicted of doing never happened in the first place, I'd call that a result.

Rolfe.

Then I shouldn't have proposed that bet in the other thread maybe?!

While I don't necessarily think he did it (without close reading I am of the opinion he is probably a convenient scapegoat and a political pawn), I will still be surprised if he is cleared (within our lifetimes perhaps) since so many people have a stake in leaving things as they are.
 
Well, it looks like you're keeping your cards close to your chest. Even so, your bet was in terms of the Lockerbie conviction becoming "universally acknowledged to be holed below the waterline". There's enough information in the public domain for that to be the case already, but I don't see it happening.

When it doesn't happen for the 2 young students in the Kercher case (an American and an Italian), why should it for Al-Megrahi - a Libyan with far less visible public support?


It depends on the evidence. If matters stand such that the balance of probabilities lies heavily with innocence, nevertheless it is still possible to interpret matters as being consistent with guilt, then you're right.

If on the other hand the golden hare is where I think it is, then matters will stand very differently.

However, we really mustn't derail. This is all being discussed in another thread.

Rolfe.
 
Here is a claim made elsewhere:

Actually, the Kerchers have already said that any money they receive they'll donate to charity, to don't want a penny from Knox, Sollecito or Guede. Also, Maresca doesn't get a percentage of any awards the Kerchers win, he gets paid a flat rate by the Italian state. Knox, Sollecito and Guede don't have any money anyway...the Kerchers (or at least, their chosen charity) are unlikely to ever see a penny.

I know the part about Sollecito not having any money is questionable as evidenced here

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6802319&postcount=2332
and also here

Di Raffaele, il padre ha sottolineato le condizioni economiche "agiate", per avere ereditato delle proprietà dalla madre morta nel 2005,

http://www.vivicentro.org/archivio/vai-a-9-vf121-vt5088.html?start=120

So my question is what cites can be found for this claim that either confirm or further contradict it?
 
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Mr. Kercher said in his last article:

Each European Union country is supposed to provide some sort of compensation for the family of anyone from another EU nation killed on its territory; but Italy did not sign up to this, so nothing has been forthcoming from Rome. We have had to fund everything ourselves. It adds up — about £40,000 so far.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...irl_meredith_was_funny_clever_and_extremely_/

Hmmmm. This seems to me to further contradict this claim.
 
"Fly By Night" has been open about the fact that he is a University of Washington employee. He wrote about it on this page at 3:15 p.m., Thursday, March 24, 2011.


Boggles the mind, really. Someone said the University had a rule of silence on this case. What's up with this loud hater, then?
 
The studies he cites are these:


They appear to be for smaller, non-mixed meals. Also, there are some differences in the definition of T_lag (2% vs 10% of contents emptied). Nonetheless, this level of variation is somewhat larger than I would have expected (though it's all on the short end rather than the long end).

Also, if you have any links for other 80-90 minute studies besides the one I've been citing, I would be interested.


I think I have a preliminary answer to this question. And I think it involves a phenomenon which has only recently been discovered.

When the stomach is processing food, one of its main jobs is to break solid food chunks down into a fine-particle "soup" (which, when mixed with liquid, acid and various enzymes secreted by the stomach is called chyme). Much of this breaking-down action is performed by muscular contractions of the stomach wall, which "churns" and squeezes the food to break it into smaller pieces. But the stomach alone is not capable of reducing solid food into the fine particles necessary for optimum digestion further down in the intestines.

And this is where the recently-discovered phenomenon comes in. It is now known that the pylorus (the last part of the stomach, which connects to the duodenum) and the duodenum "collaborate" to squeeze and filter solid food matter. The way it happens is this: the food matter is squeezed from the pylorus into the duodenum, through the pyloric sphincter (the valve consisting of a ring of muscle at the division between the pylorus and the duodenum). The duodenum then passes the food matter back through the pyloric sphincter and back into the pylorus. This process goes on for a number of repetitions, with the pyloric sphincter becoming narrower and narrower during each transition. In this way, the solid food particles are squeezed through an increasingly-small opening in the sphincter, and are thus "sieved" into finer and finer pieces.

Once this process has taken place, the pylorus spends time manipulating the sieved matter, and its sensitive nerves can determine whether there are still any pieces of food among the chyme that are too large for efficient digestion. Only when the pylorus determines that the chyme is incapable of being broken down any further* does the main transition of food from the stomach into the duodenum start.

The studies you've referenced above are looking for the first appearance of labelled food matter in the duodenum. But this timing is almost certainly related to the commencement of the back-and-forth "sieving" operation carried out by the duodenum and the stomach. I'm not sure if this phenomenon was even known at the time these studies were published (1991 and 1996), but it was certainly known by the time the Hellmig et al study was published in 2006 (this is the study giving the 82-minute median T(lag)).

The time that is relevant to establishing the ToD for Meredith is the time when the food starts to leave the stomach for the last time - i.e. after the "sieving" operation has taken place. This is the time after which one would necessarily find chyme matter in the duodenum and the jejunum. If no chyme is found in the duodenum or jejunum, it means either that a) the food has not left the stomach at all, or b) the food has been processed by the stomach, has been "sieved" between the pylorus and duodenum, and has returned to the pylorus (part of the stomach, remember) to be analysed again. In Meredith's case, it's highly likely that her pizza meal had undergone this back-and-forth "sieving" operation, but had fully returned to the stomach by the time she was attacked.

I will try to get decent cites for the "sieving" phenomenon, together with some indication when it was first discovered. But I think it's a highly reasonable suggestion that what the earlier studies were measuring was the commencement of this "sieving" process, rather than the ultimate transition of food from the stomach to the duodenum (and beyond)

* Some foodstuffs remain incapable of being ground down - which is why, for example, tomato seeds pass out whole in faeces.
 
Mr. Kercher said in his last article:



http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...irl_meredith_was_funny_clever_and_extremely_/

Hmmmm. This seems to me to further contradict this claim.


I think it's fair that Meredith's close family should be able to attend and understand the criminal trials against those accused of her murder. I don't think it's fair that the family should end up significantly out of pocket for doing so. I think the way to solve the problem is for the UK Foreign Office to deal directly with the Italian Government to reimburse reasonable travel and accommodation costs. If the Italians are unwilling to cooperate, I think these costs should be met out of either the Foreign office or Ministry of Justice budget.

But I'm pretty certain of one thing: there is a huge potential conflict of interest in marrying the criminal case with the civil case for damages. It doesn't take a legal genius to see that those seeking damages have a strong vested interest in seeing those on trial criminally convicted - regardless of whether such a criminal conviction is warranted or justifiable - since a criminal conviction will guarantee the award of civil damages. Instead, any civil case should clearly be totally separate from a criminal trial - and held after the conclusion of the criminal process (this is, for example, what happened in the OJ Simpson case). The sooner Italian legislators recognise this fundamental problem and correct it, the better (in my opinion).
 
I think it's fair that Meredith's close family should be able to attend and understand the criminal trials against those accused of her murder. I don't think it's fair that the family should end up significantly out of pocket for doing so. I think the way to solve the problem is for the UK Foreign Office to deal directly with the Italian Government to reimburse reasonable travel and accommodation costs. If the Italians are unwilling to cooperate, I think these costs should be met out of either the Foreign office or Ministry of Justice budget.

But I'm pretty certain of one thing: there is a huge potential conflict of interest in marrying the criminal case with the civil case for damages. It doesn't take a legal genius to see that those seeking damages have a strong vested interest in seeing those on trial criminally convicted - regardless of whether such a criminal conviction is warranted or justifiable - since a criminal conviction will guarantee the award of civil damages. Instead, any civil case should clearly be totally separate from a criminal trial - and held after the conclusion of the criminal process (this is, for example, what happened in the OJ Simpson case). The sooner Italian legislators recognise this fundamental problem and correct it, the better (in my opinion).


Did they actually attend the Rudy Guede proceedings, abbreviated as they were?
 
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