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Reasonable doubt...All truthers(and whoever esle) please read

What? I never said nor did any page I link to say Boeing made two specially designed A/C? Other people would have modified tankers. Is all I am saying. I said I think the fact that Boeing didn't come out and say that's a regular jet shows they have integrity. No Boeing had nothing to do with it at all. Again, it's very hard to go against the pressure of the mainstream.

Who are these other people with Boeing 767 tankers? As far as I'm aware only Boeing has done such a modification and they didn't get around to it until 2005 so where did these mysterious aircraft come from? It's not like you can find 767s just lying around, they're a large and expensive asset and people keep track of them.

Why would Boeing need to come out and say it was a regular jet, wasn't that kind of obvious? You're also implying that they thought it wasn't a regular jet and kept quiet about it, implicating them in your cover up.
 
NIST - complicit in a cover up/pressure not to go against the mainstream
ASCE - complicit in a cover up/pressure not to go against the mainstream
The US Attorney General's office and all their investigators - Much the same as the FBI
Local District Attorneys in Pennsylvania, New York, and Virginia -Much the same as the FBI
Engineering departments and professors within in universities across the USA and the world - Simple pressure of not wanting to go against the mainstream
The editors of every single peer-reviewed science and engineering journal - Simple pressure of not wanting to go against the mainstream


I have no intention of removing anything...nothing has even been close to being "debunked"

Unnecessary. You're self-debunking.
 
Look how hard bedunkers are trying to find a natural explanation for this. :D

Their trying means at least they recognize their problem. We can give them that. ;)

I note how simplistic the thinking of twoofers is in that they want the collapse of 110 storey structures to be caused by magical materials and/or devices.

Got a scenario ergo? Something along the lines of 4 or 5 paragraphs with details of where explosives or incindiaries are placed?
Wanna post it please?
 
I have no intention of removing anything...nothing has even been close to being "debunked"

The fact you are relegated to posting this crap on a relatively obscure internet forum and totally ignored by ANYBODY who can actually do something about it, including every single respected engineering, scientific, judicial, law enforcement and media organization ON EARTH is all the "debunk" I need. You can talk all you want.
 
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In terms of NIST and the molten metal, I did anything but debunk myself. It's been proven many times as you've seen it appears silvery at those temperatures.

Yes you did. You said that NIST stated that nothing was burning in the molten material when its clear that NIST is saying that aluminum is not burning but that other materials are. No one in this thread ever stated that aluminum was burning but you made sure, twice, to remind us that aluminum was not burning.

It's also been proven that normal office supplies simply will not mix with molten aluminum. See below experiments. In the first video Jones analyzes a piece of the metal and shows it is not aluminum.

At what point in the video does he do that? All I saw was him comparing pictures and colours.
I'd be interested in knowing how Jones managed to obtain a sample he can positively identify as having been that which flowed out of ONE corner of ONE floor of ONE tower, prior to collapse.
I note also that he states that the cause is "super thermite" which is "explosive". Odd then that I see no explosions taking place, certainly not over the course of the flow of this material. So it must be plain ol' thermite or thermate then. Seems Mr. Jones simply allows the XthermXte to have whatever properties suit him in any individual instance. I suppose it was not super thermite in the underground fires either but instead a slow burning type of therXte in which a small amount can continue supplying large amounts of heat for weeks.
Why do you and others not recognize that Jones is invoking a magical substance born of his imagination?
So if that were aluminum I would expect it to be silvery, if building supplies were mixed in they would be on fire and apart from the silvery liquid.

Oh, like floating on top of it, ok I got it!

In regards to your theory on the collapse. You will need to give me a few days to reply to you mathematically. I want to make sure I have read and understood it all and can reply adequately. I will post when I am ready.
Please note that every time one wishes to include greater detail things get more complex.
As for your continous youtube linking, do you not have words of your own to share with us? Or perhaps more reliable sources such as fire engineering resources, university resources, chemical engineering resources?
 
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I'm only going to play along a little longer. I'll go one by one

Boeing- Specifically said had nothing to do with it.
the FAA- never mentioned a word about them
the FBI - more then likely taking orders from someone above..again you make it sound like it would mean every FBI agent...not even close...I think the FBI had little to do with it.
the CIA- implicated..but again far from the whole CIA
the Mossad/Israel implicated..again far from the whole Mossad, and certainly not the whole nation of Israel or anywhere close to that.
Everyone who bought airline put options just prior to the attacks -foreknowledge so yes, but how many people did this? We don't know.
the FDNY - never implicated once
the Port Authorty of NY-NJ - never implicated once
The Port Authority Police - never implicated once
Hundreds of air traffic controllers - certainly did not implicate as a part of the original post, again if any were involved it it wouldn't have to be to many no where near 100 not even double digits. But not sure they haf any involvement.
Thousands of first responders in Pennsylvania, Virginia, and New York from dozens of municipalities - Have no idea where you get this from
American Airlines - No idea
United Airlines - No idea
Thousands of Pentagon workers - Don't believe I did this.
NIST - complicit in a cover up/pressure not to go against the mainstream
ASCE - complicit in a cover up/pressure not to go against the mainstream
The US Attorney General's office and all their investigators - Much the same as the FBI
Local District Attorneys in Pennsylvania, New York, and Virginia -Much the same as the FBI
Engineering departments and professors within in universities across the USA and the world - Simple pressure of not wanting to go against the mainstream
The editors of every single peer-reviewed science and engineering journal - Simple pressure of not wanting to go against the mainstream


I have no intention of removing anything...nothing has even been close to being "debunked"

Thats an awfull lot of conspirators in that list and the ones you claim you never implicated like the FAA you soon would if we got you talking about NORAD or something
 
So let me get this straight. I'm not spewing the 911truth call because I'm afraid to take my "real" views mainstream? Am I reading this right?
 
You're clearly putting words in my mouth...most of those terms I didn't even write down let alone accuse them of anything. Please stp doing this.

If what you have been saying is true then they all all implicated. Would you like to amend your theory and cross some of them off the list? How many of them were involved?
 
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Sure it is, he is saying basically all you have is Youtube. The implication being why is not in a "respected" journal. With out a doubt an appeal to authority.

Actually we have been asking you to show us anything that has some authoritative backing. That is not an appeal to authority logical fallacy which is the appeal to inappropriate authority or non sequitor.

"From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Argument from authority (also known as appeal to authority or argumentum ad verecundiam) is a special type of inductive argument which often takes the form of a statistical syllogism. Although it is possible for the argument from authority to constitute a strong inductive argument, arguments from authority are commonly used in a fallacious manner.

Appeal to authority may take several forms. As a statistical syllogism, it will have the following basic structure:

Most of what authority a has to say on subject matter S is correct.
a says p about S.
Therefore, p is correct.
The strength of this argument depends upon two factors:

The authority is a legitimate expert on the subject.
A consensus exists among legitimate experts on the matter under discussion.
We may also simply incorporate these conditions into the structure of the argument itself, in which case the form may look like this:

X holds that A is true
X is a legitimate expert on the subject.
The consensus of experts agrees with X.
Therefore, there's a presumption that A is true.
Fallacious appeals to authority/Fallacious arguments from authority are often the result of failing to meet either of the two conditions from the previous section. Specifically, when the inference fails to meet the first condition, this is sometimes called an "appeal to inappropriate authority". This occurs when an inference relies on individuals or groups without relevant expertise or knowledge.

Because the argument is inductive (i.e. because the truth of the conclusion cannot be guaranteed by the truth of the premises), it is also fallacious to assert that the conclusion must be true. In this event, the argument is a non sequitur
"


Showing that an author is a legitimate authority can be determined by several factors, education and training of the individual, past publications and experience of the individual and the quality and respectibility of the publications in which the author's papers have been published.
If the author can be shown to be la legitimate authority then the inductive arguement using his/their work can be considered valid. OTOH if the person or organization cannot be shown to have this legit authority or if a greater authority refutes a lesser authority then one cannot legitmately claim that this is an authoritative source.

As an example we have AE911T in which members can, and are from diverse backgrounds most of which are not engineers or architects even though a few are.
Sf911T, same applies.
PfT, similar
So something with the brand of approval from these orgs cannot be automatically accepted as authoritative. How about the individual authors of papers from enginers or architects belonging to AE911T? Well none has published in anything other than their own , self serving 'journal' or in pay-for-publish journals, which again cannot be shown to have legitimate authority.

I find it odd that the 911 conspiracy crowd will complain that engineering organizations are self serving, gov't backed and therefore illegitimate sources with a conflict of interest but no such hubris is attached to the Journal for 911 Studies.

What about Gage? Well he is in this case speaking authoritatively about 110 and 47 storey buildings. Does he have any experience with tall buildings? No!
Does he have credentials from an accredited university? No!
Has he published in any respected architectual or engineering journal? No!

What about the people who worked on the NIST reports?
yes, yes, and yes.
Bazant?
yes, yes and yes.

How about the ASCE? Is it a legitimate authority? Well it has been for many decades so one can infer that it still is.
What respected publications have published any papers or articles in any way supporting technical arguements made by the 911 conspiracy groups?
Scientific American? - no
Nature - no
Spectrum - no
Physics review - no

Shall I go on?

What publications have published such articles?
Jornal for 911 Studies and Bentham (pay-to-publish)

Can said articles then be shown to have legitimate authority, no.

Is there anything more to be said?
 
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I'm only going to play along a little longer. I'll go one by one
Yes, let's do it one by one.

Boeing- Specifically said had nothing to do with it.
Excellent! So you will now be retracting any and all claims about remote-controlled airplanes, correct? And that the planes were military tankers?
 
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NTSB
CTBUH(Council on Tall Buildings in the Urban Habitat)

Can we include the sometimes unnamed and sometimes (Naudet) named videographers who caught the planes going into the buildings? I mean, if the crashes were faked, certainly "they" got a hold of these video's with the approval of their owners, right?
 
Yes, let's do it one by one.


Excellent! So you will now be retracting any and all claims about remote-controlled airplanes, correct? And that the planes were military tankers?

So no remote controlled planes. What about the NYFD,tmd? Were they in on it from the start? Was there a maximum number of fire fighters that the evil planners were prepared to sacrifice?
 
You forgot about the dogs! The bomb-sniffing dogs (who could also detect thermite btw) were in on it.
 
Jones says that thermite, thermate and super-thermite were used. This premise cannot be shown to be true therefore any conclusions derived from this premise is a non sequitor

The truth movement is one big non sequitor.
 
[WildCat]
Boeing - built 767 tankers , someone had to install remote control capability. Boeing had to deliver said aircraft, therefore possible Boeing involvement
the FAA - allowed slow reaction to hijacking being reported to NORAD
the FBI - did not intercept hijackers therefore possible involvement
the CIA - did not intercept hijackers therefore possible involvement
the Mossad/Israel - did not intercept hijackers therefore possible involvement
Everyone who bought airline put options just prior to the attacks- well at least some of them involved.
the FDNY - had to agree to stop work on WTC 7 therefore possible involvement
the Port Authorty of NY-NJ - looked the other way as they were co-opted into assisting installation of devices, pulling out bomb sniffing dogs
The Port Authority Police
Hundreds of air traffic controllers
American Airlines - faked passenger lists, faked aircraft
United Airlines- faked passenger lists, faked aircraft

Thousands of Pentagon workers - well at least all of those who did not find it odd that aircraft parts were being carried INTO the Pentagon to make it look like a plane crashed there
NIST- goes without saying that all these researchers are in on it since they have not spoken out, none of them, on the misinterpretation of their work if they were legit
ASCE - obviously willfully covering up the 'truth'

The US Attorney General's office and all their investigators
Local District Attorneys in Pennsylvania, New York, and Virginia - no investigation therefore willful cover up
Engineering departments and professors within in universities across the USA and the world
The editors of every single peer-reviewed science and engineering journal - willful acceptance of cover up despite knowing the truth.
 
The truth movement is one big non sequitor.

I am not an enthusiatic enough typist to list all individual non sequitors put forth by the general truth movement:D

However I suppose I should add one of tmd's favs.
He says that the molten material found in the underground must be steel because, primarily, other people said it was steel. Given that there is no solid evidence that the material they were looking at was steel and not copper, aluminum, tin or glass mixed with large amounts of carbon based debris it is a non sequitor to deduce that it was steel.
 
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I am not an enthusiatic enough typist to list all individual non sequitors put forth by the general truth movement:D

However I suppose I should add one of tmd's favs.
He says that the molten material found in the underground must be steel because, primarily, other people said it was steel. Given that there is no solid evidence that the material they were looking at was steel and not copper, aluminum, tin or glass mixed with large amounts of carbon based debris it is a non sequitor to deduce that it was steel.

We are assuming that tmd knows the meaning of the phrase non sequitor.
 

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