Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Ok I can't help myself. I actually have never made a comment about someone's spelling or grammar that I can remember. Regardless, you did not properly use a semicolon there! "But of course as with the unsolicited, unnecessarily childish condescending grammar lessons" is a dependent clause and therefore should not have a semicolon coming after it.:)


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This gets my vote for the most absolutely absurd argument of the week about this case.

Defamatory *and a criminal act*....WOW....WOOOO-EEEEE.

PUH>>>LEEZE
Innocence posters here hundreds of times just this week, have accused each and every ILE, and especially Doctor (repeat Doctor) Stefanoni of lying, deliberately concealing evidence, deliberately manufacturing evidence, deliberately altering evidence and deliberately exaggerating evidence in a murder Appeal that is currently examining her work.

These now certainly are unsubstantiated "criminal defamatory" remarks according to your threatening..errr.."argument".
Also recall all the run of the mill less specific slurs to Doctor (repeat Doctor) Stefanoni about cheating, stealing, lying, pole dancing, cesspool diving, and using incorrect covers on her mops.

Again, am I to remotely believe that you now threaten the one opposition poster still willing to endure the never ending and never original droll of dimwitted excuses for two murderers, with criminality ??...Really??

But of course as with the unsolicited, unnecessarily childish condescending grammar lessons; the criminality threat does not apply to the above who just happen to all argue innocence.

These above accomplices of yours definitely defame Doctor (repeat Doctor) Stefanoni.
But we are to swallow that your nonsensical threat of criminality applies only to guilters?

Somewhat "communications engineered" ....Eh ??


Yes, indeed, let's stop "crying".

If you want to call her doctor cause she got some learnin how to disecticate a toad, then go ahead. I'll continue to call her Ms. Steffi. I have no respect for her whatsoever.

Your other point about defamation is a good one. Bolint is entitled to his/her opinions and is in no danger of being sued, in my opinion. I welcome the opinions, I just wish I knew what his/her point was.
 
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To me, it's absolutely classic ex-post-facto rationalisation to suggest that Knox's/Sollecito's actions and behaviour on the 2nd are somehow indicative of their culpability. Ironically, if they had gone to Gubbio as planned, then been contacted by Filomena after she discovered the scene on the afternoon of the 2nd, the pro-guilt commentators (and the courts) would have far more reason to suggest that such behaviour was indicative of culpability. But it's simply a nonsense rationalisation to propose that Knox and Sollecito somehow decided to choreograph the discovery, that they therefore had to play an integral part in it, and that they devised this elaborate "mounting concern" deception to ensure that Filomena was there when the body was found. Sheer nonsense.

Not to mention the language problems to overcome in coordinating such a cunning and complex plan. Neither Amanda's Italian nor Raffaele's English was good enough.
 
If you want to delve into semantics then you can't say that. Their statements are only what they claim to recall, remember, sometimes even "vaguely" as is the case of Amanda's signed statements from the night interrogation. You can't say they're not telling the truth unless you are inside their minds.

On the other hand the various (and much more numerous) false claims of cops, prosecutors and media in this case are strictly what you call "not telling the truth".


This argument applies to every one, not just the accused.

"Their statements are only what they claim to recall"
 
Here's an indication of just how little "Kermit" knows about the case:

In a TJMK comment below his often-incorrect slide pack, he states the following, when trying to analyse the calls to Meredith's two mobile phones on November 2nd:

We know that Meredith’s Italian phone rang audibly earlier in the morning, around 9 a.m. in Signora Elisabetta Lana’s garden, so it wasn’t turned off, nor did it have an answering machine service activated that would route automatically all calls to the answering machine without audibly ringing.

This statement is wrong on almost every level. Meredith's Italian phone was indeed switched off - almost certainly by the killer on the night of the 1st before the two phones were dumped in Sig.ra Lana's garden. It did not ring at 9am on the 2nd: it was found because it was lying in plain view in the middle of the lawn, where it had landed after being thrown. And its voicemail service was set up to kick in immediately if the phone was either turned off or not connected to the network. Incidentally, the proof of this last point is right before "Kermit's" eyes: the evidence shows that when Knox tried calling Meredith's Italian mobile at 12.11:02, the call duration was only 3 seconds and the voicemail service was activated. The phone was at the police station by that time, still switched off, and the call clearly diverted straight to voicemail. It did not ring.

And here's what "Kermit" has to say about the short second call from Knox to Meredith's UK phone:

2) Amanda’s 12:11:54 call (from her Italian phone) to Meredith’s English phone.

Here, according to the Massei report quoted above, it is quite possible that the 4 second duration of the call record does not relate to an automatic response, but simply a short amount of ringing (one ring ...?) before hanging up, since the call record to the foreign telephone *did* leave call record data.

The Massei report unfortunately doesn’t go into much detail: “− 12:11:54 (4 seconds): another call is made towards Meredith’s English mobile phone number (the cell used is the one in Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3, thus compatible with Sollecito’s house)”

However, this phone number was called less than 5 minutes beforehand, with a call duration (ringing, or with answering machine?) of 16 seconds.

We also know that this telephone also rang audibly in Signora Lana’s garden.

In this case (because the call record to a foreign number includes ringing) we can assume that Amanda didn’t make much effort to get through to Meredith.


As I pointed out in an earlier post on this subject, there are some important factors about this call that "Kermit" doesn't seem to comprehend. Firstly, this call - made at 12.11:54 - was made while the phone itself was almost certainly en route to the postal police offices. The evidence suggests that this phone was found in Sig.ra Lana's garden some time between 11.45am and 12.00pm, and that it arrived at the police station at around 12.15pm. So if the phone had been turned on and receiving network signal at the time of this second Knox call, it a) would have audibly rung while it was being transported to the police station*, and b) would have left a second "missed call" alert on the handset display.

There's no evidence that either of these things happened. Therefore, there's every reason to suppose that this second Knox call to the UK phone never connected - either because the handset was turned off by that time, or because it had fallen out of network coverage on its way to the police station. It's therefore highly likely that this 4-second call consisted of an immediate automatic divert to Meredith's UK voicemail. This in turn would explain the brevity of the call (i.e.Knox heard the start of Meredith's voicemail welcome message, then disconnected). It's very, very unlikely that this 4-second call ever connected to the handset (for the resons given above), and that Knox then let the phone ring for only a few seconds before disconnecting. This would indeed have been strange behaviour from Knox . But the evidence suggests it never happened like that.

In short, "Kermit" is woefully uniformed and ignorant when it comes to the matter of the calls to Meredith's two phones on the 2nd November. (S)he has got basic facts wrong, and coloured his/her whole "interpretation" with an unhealthy dose of confirmation bias and poor logic. Very poor work indeed. And that's only in one small area of the "devastating powerpoint presentation": I can be pretty sure that most of the rest can be just as easily picked apart.

* Remember that the UK phone must have had a pretty loud and noticeable incoming-call ring tone: after all, it was just such ringing that caused the handset to be discovered in the undergrowth of Sig.ra Lana's garden at 11.45am-12.00pm. It's therefore hard to imagine that the phone would have similarly rung while being transported by Sig.ra Lana to the police station at 12.11, yet not have been noticed. And incidentally, as I pointed out before, it's highly unlikely that the incoming call that caused the UK phone to be discovered was made by Knox: her first call to this phone was made at 12.07pm, but the UK phone was discovered between 11.45am and 12.00pm. Instead, the first (12.07) call by Knox to the UK phone was almost certainly the one that was witnessed by the Lana family after they had brought the handset back into the house and placed it on the kitchen table.
 
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By her own account she had spent at least one hour in the cottage.
What was she doing?
The only sizable alleged activity was the hairwash and drying.
Say 15 minutes. The rest is spent calmly (for what?).
Then she notices the toilet and she runs away with uneasy feeling, locking the door.

During that hour she did not hear a single sound or some noise that would have suggested that somebody was at home.
Yet she left without trying to knock at or open Filomena's door or trying to knock at or open Meredith's door. Nor calling them by name or by phone.

Because first she wanted to discuss it with Raffaele. :)

Give me a break.

Amanda:
"when i entered i called out if anyone was
there, but no one responded
and i assumed that if anyone was there,
they were still asleep."

She did call out for them and no one answered. No one had entered while she was getting ready either. 15 minutes is enough time? No way, girls often take longer showers and that is without time added to change and blow dry.

Amanda arrived home about 10:30 a.m., do you have the time she left or arrived at Raffaele's?

I know you see things as suspicious, but if Meredith Kercher died around 9:30 p.m. Amanda couldn't have been involved no matter how suspicous you read her.
 
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a normal relationship

From your link, says the same thing.

The witnesses also recalled how Ms Kercher struck up a friendship with Ms Knox, who she first regarded as "pretty and nice" – but said that the relationship degenerated as the English girl struggled to put up with her flatmate's personal habits.
They recalled how Ms Kercher complained that Ms Knox left the shared bathroom dirty, failed to flush the toilet and left a see-through washbag containing condoms and a rabbit-shaped vibrator lying around. They also said that she brought men home.
Skwinty,

I will have to go on memory, but I do not believe that Meredith shared her issues with Amanda (she only told her friends). At least two witnesses testified to the effect that the relationship between Meredith and Amanda was "normal" (possibly Giacomo and Laura). We are all agreed that Ms. Knox brought friends home, but other than finding Juve strange, I am unaware that there was a problem with this. The night that Daniel spent with Amanda, Meredith was with Giacomo downstairs. Meredith and Amanda went to a classical music concert together and went to a chocolate festival together. It is possible that the defense could produce photographs of them together if the prosecution would only give the drive to Toshiba, the hard drive that the prosecution damaged.
EDT
Meredith asked for one of Amanda's condoms one night, according to Amanda's email of 4 November, so I don't think that she was the prude that the prosecution sometimes liked to portray. Moreover, why were the condoms, the toy vibrator, and Amanda's underwear the subject of so much testimony? The prosecution did not bother to test a putative semen stain and did not test its own theory of how the window was broken. That is a pretty skewed set of priorities. MOO.
 
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I particularly like this piece of boneheaded and ignorant horse manure of an "argument":




Note to Comodi: My dear Manuela, this is precisely why discovery rules were introduced: to put an end to idiots like you perverting the course of justice by unilaterally deciding what should and should not be provided to the defence. I particularly refer to the part where you say "We decide if documents are necessary or not" as a classic example of pompous arrogance and potential misconduct in public office; while the bit where you say "It's not proof, and we didn't need it to support our case" is a masterstroke double-whammy of arrogance and sheer illogicality. This is, after all, not so much about what prosecutors need to support their case - it's about what defence teams need from the prosecutors in order to have an opportunity to conduct a defence.

If the quoted passage is indeed accurately attributable to you*, then you clearly stand shoulder-to shoulder with Mignini as prime culprits in this disgusting farce. You therefore deserve to share significantly in the blame that will be attributed when this is all over by the end of the year. In short, you are a disgrace to the legal profession and to public service. And you're a chain smoker......

* and there's no reason to suggest this is not the case, given that it's in a published book and is a directly-attributed quote.

In the courtroom Comodi is every bit as formidable an opponent as Mignini and just as untrustworthy.
 
This argument applies to every one, not just the accused.

"Their statements are only what they claim to recall"

Not exactly. It's not what you can say when the prosecution presents false claims to the Supreme Court as evidence in the pretrial or present false information or withhold information from the jury and the defence during the trial.

Although they tried to use it as an excuse for the missing recordings of the all night interrogation. Interestingly "We forgot because we were agitated" in the recent interview with the prosecutor morphed into "we have no funds to record".
 
Koasium says...

"It was the day after this testimony, February 14th 2009, that Amanda wore the 'All You Need is Love' Beatles t-shirt to court, some think in reaction to that testimony."

The tshirt part is correct...I suspect she picked this shirt because in fact Feb 14 is Valentines Day...All you need is love..dadadadada No crime and no foul there...just a slow news day perhaps.
 
Not exactly. It's not what you can say when the prosecution presents false claims to the Supreme Court as evidence in the pretrial or present false information or withhold information from the jury and the defence during the trial.

Although they tried to use it as an excuse for the missing recordings of the all night interrogation. Interestingly "We forgot because we were agitated" in the recent interview with the prosecutor morphed into "we have no funds to record".

Yes, great example. Mignini did it, he's a bad man.
 
In the courtroom Comodi is every bit as formidable an opponent as Mignini and just as untrustworthy.

Hear tell. She does seem rather ornery when she gets riled up. Nearabouts as I can figure she tried to slip a dog that won't hunt past the judge during the last hearing and had to skedaddle back to papa Mignono lickety split.

Your druthers may vary.
 
Your other point about defamation is a good one. Bolint is entitled to his/her opinions and is in no danger of being sued, in my opinion. I welcome the opinions, I just wish I knew what his/her point was.


You are correct. I shouldn't mix bolint in with the guilter riffraff. He's so far above their level but seems to often fall back on the guilter talking points instead of moving forward to see what actual facts we can uncover in this case.



Here is a different picture of the bathmat taken from Rinaldi at a different angle under different lighting. The other stains are clearly seen and marked as evidence.


Is this available in a higher resolution? It looks like the stain at "B" is another impression or two of the same foot.
 
I particularly like this piece of boneheaded and ignorant horse manure of an "argument":




Note to Comodi: My dear Manuela, this is precisely why discovery rules were introduced: to put an end to idiots like you perverting the course of justice by unilaterally deciding what should and should not be provided to the defence. I particularly refer to the part where you say "We decide if documents are necessary or not" as a classic example of pompous arrogance and potential misconduct in public office; while the bit where you say "It's not proof, and we didn't need it to support our case" is a masterstroke double-whammy of arrogance and sheer illogicality. This is, after all, not so much about what prosecutors need to support their case - it's about what defence teams need from the prosecutors in order to have an opportunity to conduct a defence.

If the quoted passage is indeed accurately attributable to you*, then you clearly stand shoulder-to shoulder with Mignini as prime culprits in this disgusting farce. You therefore deserve to share significantly in the blame that will be attributed when this is all over by the end of the year. In short, you are a disgrace to the legal profession and to public service. And you're a chain smoker......

* and there's no reason to suggest this is not the case, given that it's in a published book and is a directly-attributed quote.

Do you know if this quote from Comodi is given while being interviewed by Burleigh (which Comodi may have responded in English or Italian which was translated) or was this quote from Comodi given in court (which would probably have been in Italian and later translated)?
 
Do you know if this quote from Comodi is given while being interviewed by Burleigh (which Comodi may have responded in English or Italian which was translated) or was this quote from Comodi given in court (which would probably have been in Italian and later translated)?

The impression I had was that it was in court. The paragraph preceding that quote reads:

Comodi, in charge of explaining the tediously complicated scientific evidence, fought back. By the ninth month of the trial, September 2009, as the defense put on its case, she had lost all patience, often arguing with a cigarette in hand and stalking out the side door while the defense was still cross-examining or redirecting witnesses, her lighter already igniting the Marlboro. Sure of her position and of the fact that the case had triumphed in the public square, she finally dispensed with all pretense to fussy detail in favor of more personal tactics.
 
Remember, Napoleoni's witness statement:



Anyway, I think that the whole shower/boogie/hairwash/toilet/mop story is made up.
Only Rudy's souvenir is a corroborated point in it. :)


She was not at that time in the cottage.

Ok...lets say I agree with you that shower, boogie, hair wash, toilet , mop story is made up...what does that say about the murder?

Am I to infer now that AK cleaned up the cottage when there is nothing to indicate any cleanup?

She took no shower that morning because her hair looked messy in video capture photos? It looked like a windy November day...that ruins my hair day every time.

I agree the mop story is odd...but I cant figure it into a clue to murder. I’m certain RS floor could be cleaned up with towels. But I’m a logical common sense person...I don’t think these two are actually. In fact AK best friend describes her as a bit odd. She finds that an endearing quality though...not a murdering psycho type odd.

So these few odd things in the end say nothing. Nothing that indicates murder or cover up of a murder anyway.
 
You are correct. I shouldn't mix bolint in with the guilter riffraff. He's so far above their level but seems to often fall back on the guilter talking points instead of moving forward to see what actual facts we can uncover in this case.






Is this available in a higher resolution? It looks like the stain at "B" is another impression or two of the same foot.

Concerning the bath mat: Machiavelli (Yummi at PMF) had this same impression concerning a possible second (foot)print at mark B. I think he may have stated those thoughts at JREF but absolutely did at PMF with some photos. I don't know how long ago this is and can't remember what photos he used but his thoughts were interesting.
 
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