US Officials Declare Eastern Cougar Extinct

[Bigfooter]

So do you now want to drop your earlier argument?

What's incorrect about that statement?

Did I say it was an Eastern Cougar? No I did not.

I said we now have proof that a cougar was living in the Eastern United States. It walked from the Dakotas and was hit by a car in Connecticut. Even if it were just a solitary animal and there are no others, it was still living in the Eastern United States.

How is that incorrect?

I get the impression that you guys think that I'm trying to pull some kind of backdoor trick to get you to admit there are Eastern Cougars.

I'm not. I'll say it AGAIN - there are no Eastern Cougars. They are extinct and have been for decades.

Happy?

 

[William Parcher]

Your argument didn't specify that wild cougars in the East are "Eastern Cougars", and that is not what I'm asking you about. But here it is again...

The bottom line is that we now have proof that big cats exist in the Eastern United States outside of Florida.

The dead Connecticut cougar is proof of what again?

 

[mikeyx]

Your argument didn't specify that wild cougars in the East are "Eastern Cougars", and that is not what I'm asking you about. But here it is again...



The dead Connecticut cougar is proof of what again?

Its proof that there was a cougar in CT, not that was breeding there but it WAS there, and it werent south american.

Drew was wrong, period

 

[Drewbot]

Don't ascribe arguments to me that I did not make. I clearly have shown that I said wanderers from the west or from Florida would make up some of the cougars found in the east. I even quoted myself saying it in this thread, now stop lying about my argument.

 

[The Shrike]

All north american cougars disappeared at one point. Then wanderers from S. America reestablished cougars in N. America. All N. American cougars came from this S. American flow.

?

To my knowledge, cougars were never extirpated from the western U.S.


In other news, here's a quote from the Thompson and Jenks (2010) paper I referenced upthread.

"Dispersal of cougars originating in the Black Hills provide evidence that recolonization of cougars is occurring and is further substantiated by increased verified cougar sightings throughout midwestern, southern, and eastern North Amer- ica (Cougar Network 2007, Beier 2010). For example, North Dakota recently documented their first breeding cougar population in the western badlands region of the state since the 1800s (NDGFD 2007). Although subadult male cougars make most recolonizing movements, female cougars also have dispersed into former cougar ranges. Dispersal of female cougars, especially in a population on the edge of cougar range, constitutes true range expansion and recolonization of the species to former habitats."

Also from that paper, nearly half of the subadult male cougars they tracked dispersed > 250 km, though not all went east from their natal home ranges. Still, it's clear that a slow expansion of cougar distribution is occurring, with re-colonization of former range. But we don't even have "recolonization" in Minnesota yet - it's going to be a long time before Connecticut truly regains its cougars.

 

[mikeyx]

?

To my knowledge, cougars were never extirpated from the western U.S.


In other news, here's a quote from the Thompson and Jenks (2010) paper I referenced upthread.

"Dispersal of cougars originating in the Black Hills provide evidence that recolonization of cougars is occurring and is further substantiated by increased verified cougar sightings throughout midwestern, southern, and eastern North Amer- ica (Cougar Network 2007, Beier 2010). For example, North Dakota recently documented their first breeding cougar population in the western badlands region of the state since the 1800s (NDGFD 2007). Although subadult male cougars make most recolonizing movements, female cougars also have dispersed into former cougar ranges. Dispersal of female cougars, especially in a population on the edge of cougar range, constitutes true range expansion and recolonization of the species to former habitats."

Also from that paper, nearly half of the subadult male cougars they tracked dispersed > 250 km, though not all went east from their natal home ranges. Still, it's clear that a slow expansion of cougar distribution is occurring, with re-colonization of former range. But we don't even have "recolonization" in Minnesota yet - it's going to be a long time before Connecticut truly regains its cougars.

Yet Drew has the continuing misfortune of getting caught in an erroneous blanket statement and then getting his panties in a bunch when someone calls him on it. The Shrike just nailed, you said ALL cougars were of south american descent, ******** and you know it.

You might find it easier just to admit you were wrong, but I guess not.

 

[William Parcher]

Still, it's clear that a slow expansion of cougar distribution is occurring, with re-colonization of former range. But we don't even have "recolonization" in Minnesota yet - it's going to be a long time before Connecticut truly regains its cougars.

Predicted to be one hundred years just to get to the Adirondacks...


Will Cougars Return to the Adirondacks?

The news that a mountain lion killed on a Connecticut highway had migrated more than 1,500 miles from South Dakota raises an intriguing question: could the cats return to the Adirondacks someday?

The short answer: "someday" is a long way off.

Christopher Spatz, president of the Cougar Rewilding Foundation, said it took twenty years for cougars from the South Dakota's Black Hills to establish a small population (thirteen adults) in the Nebraska panhandle—just 120 miles away.

"It might take them forty years to get to Minnesota," he said. "If you project that eastward, you're talking a century before they get to the Adirondacks."

 

[River]

Predicted to be one hundred years just to get to the Adirondacks...


Will Cougars Return to the Adirondacks?

Thats good news in my eyes. Some people may not agree with my sentiment. I'm happy to see their range increasing.

 

[The Shrike]

Thats good news in my eyes.

Which part, that they'll return or that it'll take 100 years?

 

[mikeyx]

Which part, that they'll return or that it'll take 100 years?

The funny part, that you take one guy's opinion as fact so long as it supports your own, Parcher to. In that regard what seperates you from the footers, nothing........... opinion as fact so long as it agrees with yours, what complete ********.

 

[Blackdog]

Where did he say he took it as fact? He was just quoting the article.

I know there have been cougars in Minnesota in recent times and I can back that with documentation but I don't know for a fact there is even one breeding pair here, even though there have been stories of such in the western suburbs of Minneapolis, or how long it will take before there is a breeding population if ever.
I'm a hunter and knowing there was one within a few miles of one of my hunting areas in 2007 at the same tiome I was there makes my morning and nighttime hikes in and out of my hunting area a little more scary exciting but I'm not going get too excited about a few transient males as long as they keep on moving....all the way to Connecticut. You can have all you want.
I have nothing against cougars but I don't want to have a stare down with one while walking down a trail.

Comparing Parcher quoting an article to bigfooter romanticism is a straw man and a complete brain burp IMHO. You come off as obssesed about this whole thing which is more like bigfooter behavior than quoting an article.

 

[The Shrike]

The funny part, that you take one guy's opinion as fact so long as it supports your own, Parcher to. In that regard what seperates you from the footers, nothing........... opinion as fact so long as it agrees with yours, what complete ********.

What the Sam Hill are you on about?

 

[Drewbot]

The close genetic proximity of NA cougars suggests they came from a small group of cougars. Culver in 2000; suggested that cougars in NA were extirpated around 10k yrs ago. they were then repopulated by a small grp of SA cougars.

In other words the genetics do not reflect a million yrs of isolation.

 

[mikeyx]

The close genetic proximity of NA cougars suggests they came from a small group of cougars. Culver in 2000; suggested that cougars in NA were extirpated around 10k yrs ago. they were then repopulated by a small grp of SA cougars.

In other words the genetics do not reflect a million yrs of isolation.

You made a blanket statement about south american cougars and have been proven wrong. Just deal with it.

 

[Drewbot]

No, I cited the author and the year of the report, something you have never done. Look up the paper, it is footnote 17 on the cougar wiki page.

Let Shrike tell me I'm wrong after he looks it up, but you don't get to tell me I'm wrong, you are an emotional person who wouldnt look up the paper before declaring such things

 

[William Parcher]

You made a blanket statement about south american cougars and have been proven wrong. Just deal with it.

You can't seem to deal with it.

I've reviewed all of Drew's posts here and on the BFF. In all instances he says that cougars found in the wild in the East will be either Western migrants, escaped or released pets with South American lineage, or Florida migrants (Florida Panther). Repeatedly he says that they are either Western migrants or pets (SA). His main point has always been that these cougars are not "Eastern Cougars" which the government has declared already extinct. They make this claim because there is a complete lack of functional evidence to support that they are not extinct.

You have stated that they have been "there" for a long time and have explicitly stated that there is a breeding population in Upstate New York. Your obvious implication is that the government (both Federal and States) is incorrect in claiming that the "Eastern Cougar" went extinct. But you have nothing to back your position other than personal opinions and anecdotes.

As usual, you have little to offer other than mean-spirited obstinacy and trolling.

 

[mikeyx]

No, I cited the author and the year of the report, something you have never done. Look up the paper, it is footnote 17 on the cougar wiki page.

Let Shrike tell me I'm wrong after he looks it up, but you don't get to tell me I'm wrong, you are an emotional person who wouldnt look up the paper before declaring such things

nope you cited a blanket statement as fact, and you know it. Parcher's knowitallism is not even relevant

 

[mikeyx]

You can't seem to deal with it.

I've reviewed all of Drew's posts here and on the BFF. In all instances he says that cougars found in the wild in the East will be either Western migrants, escaped or released pets with South American lineage, or Florida migrants (Florida Panther). Repeatedly he says that they are either Western migrants or pets (SA). His main point has always been that these cougars are not "Eastern Cougars" which the government has declared already extinct. They make this claim because there is a complete lack of functional evidence to support that they are not extinct.

You have stated that they have been "there" for a long time and have explicitly stated that there is a breeding population in Upstate New York. Your obvious implication is that the government (both Federal and States) is incorrect in claiming that the "Eastern Cougar" went extinct. But you have nothing to back your position other than personal opinions and anecdotes.

As usual, you have little to offer other than mean-spirited obstinacy and trolling.

And you and drew make dogmatic blanket statements, and insult people by pointing out that they're footers so they dont know squat and then cry troll. The sad thing is Parcher not everyone thinks you're the genius you think you are. You post opinion as fact as that is just sad.

The troll is you, and you are on ignore.

 

[The Shrike]

The close genetic proximity of NA cougars suggests they came from a small group of cougars. Culver in 2000; suggested that cougars in NA were extirpated around 10k yrs ago. they were then repopulated by a small grp of SA cougars.

Ah, my bad Drewbot. I assumed in your earlier post that you were implying that American settlers wiped out all North American cougars but they repopulated the West from Mexico. Now I see you are referring to a genetic bottleneck from the Pleistocene, which is very cool. Cougars would've dispersed to South America from North America initially. It's neat to contemplate that original North American population getting wiped out only to be "rescued" by immigrants from South America. That's actually a great illustration of why conservation biologists stress the importance of protecting rare species everywhere they occur.

Anyway mikeyx, I'm afraid you'll be needing to put me on "ignore" as well, 'cause Drewbot was clearly above-board with his comments about the likely origin of cougars that have been reported in the Eastern U.S. I'm not sure how you can make the bald-faced claim that he rejected the "dispersers from the Western U.S." hypothesis when it's right here in the thread for anyone to see.

 

[mikeyx]

Ah, my bad Drewbot. I assumed in your earlier post that you were implying that American settlers wiped out all North American cougars but they repopulated the West from Mexico. Now I see you are referring to a genetic bottleneck from the Pleistocene, which is very cool. Cougars would've dispersed to South America from North America initially. It's neat to contemplate that original North American population getting wiped out only to be "rescued" by immigrants from South America. That's actually a great illustration of why conservation biologists stress the importance of protecting rare species everywhere they occur.

Anyway mikeyx, I'm afraid you'll be needing to put me on "ignore" as well, 'cause Drewbot was clearly above-board with his comments about the likely origin of cougars that have been reported in the Eastern U.S. I'm not sure how you can make the bald-faced claim that he rejected the "dispersers from the Western U.S." hypothesis when it's right here in the thread for anyone to see.

Nope, I have been open to the possibility of a small population breeding here, I never said it was huge, even if it's a few migrators doing it, it's still a possibility. I dont think its an absolute just a possibility, needless to say though they are physically here that has been proven.

To Drew's dishonesty, if you read his commentary over time, they are ALL south american pet stock in his mind, and he has not proven that. Parcher points to one study, while employing hos normal tactics, poiting out the other side of the discussion are footers as a veiled insult, and then when he is pointed out for so he screams troll. Who really is the troll, he is. Thats why he is on ignore. It doesn't make me wrong to be open to the possibility rather to cling to dogma.

William might want to realize the earth isn't flat as well.