Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Skwinty]

Skwinty,

We are getting well outside my domain of expertise, but I think it was a Mac laptop loaned to Sollecito by his sister. This link comes from someone who knows a good deal more than i do.

My thoughts on this are as follows:

Is the time recorded for the movie on the computer be used to establish that the accused were not at the house when the murder took place.

Maybe the laptop was in the house but moved elsewhere afterwards?

I do not know where the laptop was found by the police.

At Sollecitos apartment?

 

[el buscador]

My thoughts on this are as follows:

Is the time recorded for the movie on the computer be used to establish that the accused were not at the house when the murder took place.

Maybe the laptop was in the house but moved elsewhere afterwards?

I do not know where the laptop was found by the police.

At Sollecitos apartment?

The computer was at Raffaele's place. The police turned it on and did some web surfing and opened a couple of files including the movie "Star Dust" which overwrote the earlier time stamp. "Star Dust" was the second movie that Raf and Amanda watched the night of Nov. 1. All this while still at Raf's place.

Raffaele also had a second computer which the police confiscated. The police also took Amanda's, Meredith's and Filomena's computers. All 4 of which they fried while working with them. The police eventually recovered at least some of data from Meredith's computer. But they had no luck with Amanda's so they took the top off the hard drive to see if they could do something? I don't know what, but go figure.

 

[Skwinty]

The computer was at Raffaele's place. The police turned it on and did some web surfing and opened a couple of files including the movie "Star Dust" which overwrote the earlier time stamp.

Is the computer being used to determine any point in the timescale or the whereabouts of the accused at any point in time?

If the computer was a laptop with 3G modem, then it could have been anywhere prior to the time the police switched it on.

 

[LondonJohn]

Was the computer a laptop or desktop?

Was the the computer connected to the net?

If so, what method of connection? fixed line or 3G modem?

It was a laptop (MacBook Pro). AFAIK its standard Internet connection was either wired DSL or wireless DSL (but a wireless connection would not have enabled the laptop to maintain coverage via Sollecito's DSL router if it had been taken to the girls' cottage - it would have been out of range).

It appears that there was constant internet connectivity throughout the whole time period in question (he had torrent software continuously downloading and uploading material). But there appears to have only been one specific page request during the crucial time period: to the Apple site at around 1am (IIRC).

So I don't think anyone is disputing that the laptop was situated in Sollecito's apartment for the whole of the time period in question. The question is one of whether Sollecito can be shown to be also in the apartment through any record of interaction with the laptop.

 

[LondonJohn]

Is the computer being used to determine any point in the timescale or the whereabouts of the accused at any point in time?

If the computer was a laptop with 3G modem, then it could have been anywhere prior to the time the police switched it on.

This was 2007. There were barely any 3G dongles in use at that time. Sollecito was using a DSL ISP via his home phone line.

 

[Skwinty]

wired DSL or wireless DSL (but a wireless connection would not have enabled the laptop to maintain coverage via Sollecito's DSL router if it had been taken to the girls' cottage - it would have been out of range).

A mobile 3G modem would not have had a range problem because it would not require Sollecito's router.

 

[Skwinty]

This was 2007. There were barely any 3G dongles in use at that time. Sollecito was using a DSL ISP via his home phone line.

Are you sure? I live in South Africa which somewhat behind the technology envelope and I have had a 3G dongle for quite a few years now.

 

[LondonJohn]

LondonJohn,

I argued that the opinions being posted on the Knox threads were irrelevant to the outcome of the case.

It turns out that could be false as the Italian courts could very well be swayed by public opinion.

I did not as you imply, state that posting on JREF on any other topic is a waste of time.

And you say I build strawmen.

It wasn't a strawman - you'd already stated that any discussion of the Knox case was irrelevant - and by implication meaningless - and I'd then suggested that the same could be said of every discussion on every topic on the JREF forum.

And I have every confidence (and hope) that Italian courts will not be swayed by public opinion. That would be totally contrary to whole basis of proper justice. They should be assessing this case based purely on the evidence (or, in this case, the lack of evidence) put before them, and the arguments of the various parties in the courtroom.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

log file

Is the computer being used to determine any point in the timescale or the whereabouts of the accused at any point in time?

Clearly the interactions at 9:08 PM and approximately 1 AM the next day are part of the defense's reasoning. Raffaele's amended appeal makes the question of his computer usage a central one. The link I previously gave is helpful in beginning to understand their contention.
EDT
The prosecution's treatment of the computers (damaging three of them and refusing to release Amanda's hard drive to Toshiba) is difficult to comprehend or to justify. MOO.

 

[Skwinty]

And I have every confidence (and hope) that Italian courts will not be swayed by public opinion. That would be totally contrary to whole basis of proper justice. They should be assessing this case based purely on the evidence (or, in this case, the lack of evidence) put before them, and the arguments of the various parties in the courtroom.

So the court officials on both sides have had unfetttered access to all media and opinions?

No sequestered jury?

Then the odds must be pretty high that the first and second sittings have the potential to be trial by public opinion.

 

[LondonJohn]

When I mentioned this aspect of the argument with reference to Kevin, you quite strongly disagreed with me.

What has changed?

You're confused. I was disagreeing with you when you said that Kevin had implied that he believed people connected with the case were reading these threads. Kevin did not imply anything of the sort. The argument was over your interpretation of Kevin's post. It wasn't about what I believe or don't believe about whether people connected to the case read these threads.

And, for the record, Kevin might well also believe that it's likely that people connected to the thread read these threads. I don't know whether he believes it or not. But the issue of debate was whether Kevin had implicitly stated this belief in his post that said something along the lines of "If my posts are helping Knox, either in the Perugia courtroom or in the court of public opinion, then I'll be glad". I was arguing against your very specific assertion that this post had implied that Kevin believed people involved in the case were reading the thread. In my opinion, it was clear that there was no such implication in that post, and that was what I was arguing about.

 

[LondonJohn]

A mobile 3G modem would not have had a range problem because it would not require Sollecito's router.

Do you know the difference between DSL via a wireless modem and 3G via the cellular network? They are entirely different methods of broadband internet access. Sollecito was not using 3G for internet access to his laptop. He was using DSL (either wired to the phone socket in his wall, or via a wireless modem with around a 100-yard maximum range).

But let me know if you'd like a fuller explanation of different internet access methods - I'm not being facetious, because I already told you that Sollecito was using DSL for internet access, yet you replied by talking about 3G.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

playbook? we don't need no stinkin' playbook

So the court officials on both sides have had unfetttered access to all media and opinions?

No sequestered jury?

Then the odds must be pretty high that the first and second sittings have the potential to be trial by public opinion.

Skwinty,

The jury was not sequestered, nor was there a change in venue; therefore, what was said in the media may well have played a role. This is one of the reasons why the false statements made about the case (some of which originated with ILE) are such a big part of this affair and why I hold the tabloid press in such low regard with respect to this case.

FWIW high-profile cases such as the Duke lacrosse case sometimes make defense lawyers throw out the usual playbook. The defense sought to meet DA Nifong, but he refused. They also released details of Reade Seligmann's alibi long before any trial would have occurred. See the book "Until Proven Innocent" for details. This case may be another one where the defense has to throw out the playbook. MOO.

 

[Skwinty]

Do you know the difference between DSL via a wireless modem and 3G via the cellular network? They are entirely different methods of broadband internet access. Sollecito was not using 3G for internet access to his laptop. He was using DSL (either wired to the phone socket in his wall, or via a wireless modem with around a 100-yard maximum range).

But let me know if you'd like a fuller explanation of different internet access methods - I'm not being facetious, because I already told you that Sollecito was using DSL for internet access, yet you replied by talking about 3G.

You are being facetious.

You said as far as you know it was a macbook with wired DSL.

Any citations that it definitely was?

 

[Skwinty]

This case may be another one where the defense has to throw out the playbook. MOO.

What are the critical components of the playbook?
On what evidence would they start the proceeding in this instance?

 

[LondonJohn]

Are you sure? I live in South Africa which somewhat behind the technology envelope and I have had a 3G dongle for quite a few years now.

Yes, I'm sure. In fact, in Italy, Tre Italia was the first to offer 3G internet access via HSDPA. This only started in mid-2006, and was initially confined to central Rome. It also required a slot-in expansion card, rather than a USB dongle. It's highly unlikely that 3G connectivity to computers would have even been available in Perugia in mid-2007, and in any case it's moot in this instance since we know that Sollecito was using a fixed-line DSL ISP for his home internet access.

And are you sure you've had a 3G dongle for "quite a few years"? To the best of my recall (and my work is affiliated to the mobile/internet industries) USB 3G dongles were only introduced in late 2006 - and then only in very small quantities. They were a highly specialised item at that time. 3G dongles have only become a mass-market piece of consumer electronics over the past two years or so. Incidentally, Vodacom only launched 3G services in SA in December 2004, and only introduced HSDPA broadband access in 2007.

 

[snook1]

I think Guede's testimony and actions are typical of the guilty person. He ran because he knew he was guilty, for one thing.

Amanda's actions were typical of an innocent and social (socially naive?) person. Amanda stayed and tried to help the police.

In conspiracies, one of the conspiracies tries to pin the blame on another conspirator. If Amanda knew Guede was involved, she would have tried to pin the blame on him or even Raffaele.

Also, her further behaviour in court wasn't exactly matching the behaviour of a guilty person. She, at times, seemed like a carefree person, beacuse she was so sure, they're gonna fix this by the end of the trial. I can't see a guilty person acting like they did right after the crime was discovered, during the investigation and the trial.

If I would commit a murder, for the first time in my life, in a foreign country with people that I barely knew, I would be terrified and I would do *anything and everything* to fit in the moods of all the other people around me and I would do anything to keep the attention away from me. Amanda and Raffaele didn't care for all of that, beacause they knew they were innocent, and yes, very naive.

 

[Skwinty]

Y
And are you sure you've had a 3G dongle for "quite a few years"? To the best of my recall (and my work is affiliated to the mobile/internet industries) USB 3G dongles were only introduced in late 2006

About 4 years now. would you like to see my ISP bill?

 

[LondonJohn]

You are being facetious.

You said as far as you know it was a macbook with wired DSL.

Any citations that it definitely was?

Massei report, p299 English trans (my bolding):

As far as the accused Raffaele Sollecito goes, the Postal Police technical examination was carried out only on his MacBook PRO Apple laptop. Insofar as his other PC, an ASUS L300D, as well as Amanda Knox’s Toshiba serial number 7541811OK and Meredith Kercher’s G4 iBook sustained damage, it was impossible to retrieve data from their respective hard drives.

Massei Report, p306 English trans (my bolding):

Whereas the Encase software had obtained the ‚navigation history‛, which excluded any trace of web browsing in the 21:10:32 01-November-2007 to 05:32:08 02-November-2007 period, the Postal Police could have reached a similar result by examination of the log files from Fastweb, the Internet provider with which Raffaele Sollecito had a contract. (Cf. the printouts produced at the 14 March 2009 hearing.)

Fastweb is a DSL ISP, using standard copper telephone lines to deliver service:

http://www.fastweb.it/portale/

 

[LondonJohn]

About 4 years now. would you like to see my ISP bill?

Well if it's really 4 years, you must live in the middle of either Joburg, Capetown, Pretoria or Durban, and you must be an extreme early adopter. Remember also that four years ago was August 2007 - only two and a half months before the murder.