Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Skwinty]

Why does it have to "make a difference to the proceedings" to have any validity?

Well, as Rose points out, the Italian courts could well be influenced by public opinion. Is that in itself a good thing?

Why do you think that this, in and of itself, is reason enough not to delve into this case?

In my case which I have explained in previous posts, hope you read them , a lack of deep interest in the gory details and the lack of free personal time.

On what subjects/topics have you made your 3,800 posts on these forums? Did any of those posts "make a difference to proceedings"? I suspect not, in which case you're accusing yourself of wasting your own time and energy

The 3,800 posts I have made on this forum were certainly more diverse the 3,800 posts solely on amanda Knox and sollecito.

Sure it made no difference to the grand scheme of things.
That is probably because the universe really doesn't give a ****.

 

[Skwinty]

Why?

Rolfe.

Are you saying, like Kevin, when he says that some forum members treat community like their own personal sandbox, that threads about Knox are someone elses personal sandbox?

Just asking here.

 

[LondonJohn]

My comments in red.

Regarding your disagreement with me on the irrelevance (or otherwise) of this thread to the ongoing proceedings in Perugia, we're actually not that far apart. I still feel that on balance it's unlikely that anyone directly connected to the case has been influenced by posts on the JREF Knox threads*. But I don't think it's impossible that this may have happened. In any case, the point I was making is that regardless of whether or not anything written on JREF may be influencing the Perugia court case, it's still a worthy and valid endeavour to discuss it in the way we are doing here. In other words, even if one were certain that the JREF discussion was having no impact upon the actual case, that would still not be any kind of good reason to dismiss it as meaningless.

I sometimes wonder, for example, whether our posts on disco buses, ToD, phone timings and DNA might have found their way into the lawyers' consciousnesses between the Massei trial and the submission of the appeal documents. But I wouldn't go anywhere near suggesting that this was in fact the case, and it actually wouldn't matter to me either way - it's not the reason why I'm posting here. Similarly, I'm not motivated by any kind of need to shape public opinion; if that is one of the by-products of some of my input here, then I certainly wouldn't be complaining - but it's not one of the reasons why I post on the subject.

* However, I think it's far from unlikely (in fact, I think it's more likely than not) that people directly connected to the case have read and followed the JREF Knox threads.

 

[LondonJohn]

Well, as Rose points out, the Italian courts could well be influenced by public opinion. Is that in itself a good thing?



In my case which I have explained in previous posts, hope you read them , a lack of deep interest in the gory details and the lack of free personal time.



The 3,800 posts I have made on this forum were certainly more diverse the 3,800 posts solely on amanda Knox and sollecito.

Sure it made no difference to the grand scheme of things.
That is probably because the universe really doesn't give a ****.

So again I ask: why did you bother to make 3,800 posts on this forum, if you think that every discussion here is irrelevant, invalid and/or somewhat meaningless?

The point is, I disagree that posting on any one of the JREF threads (including, of course, the Knox threads) is irrelevant, meaningless or invalid. But I can't reconcile your view - that such posting is irrelevant, meaningless and/or invalid - with your 3,800 posts on the forum. Can you see where I'm coming from? How would you reconcile these two things?

ETA: For someone who says that a lack of free time is one of the factors preventing you from delving any further into this case, you're certainly expending a fair amount of your free time and effort arguing about the irrelevancy of this thread. Just think, if instead you'd used that time and effort to engage in a debate on the actual case, we might all have got somewhere

 

[Katody Matrass]

Because she gave them so much detail. The text, though misunderstood, fit her story.

You mean their story. The one they already knew to be true and expected her to admit to.

I'm not sure what you mean by "so much detail"? Main characteristic of the statements she signed is that they are vague and devoid of details. Do you have any details on mind apart from the text message?

They would not expect her to tell such a whopper.

Well, if you try to break a witness and make her admit nonsense you "know to be true", that's what you should expect. But I agree the cops weren't the sharpest tools in the box

 

[RoseMontague]

Because she gave them so much detail. The text, though misunderstood, fit her story. They would not expect her to tell such a whopper.

I have read a lot of confessions and what Amanda's statements are missing are a whole lot of detail. Even during the normal false confession, the cops are able to get a few more details in one of those things.

What are the details in her story? What cops and prosecutors want are details that only the killer would know.

 

[Skwinty]

So again I ask: why did you bother to make 3,800 posts on this forum, if you think that every discussion here is irrelevant, invalid and/or somewhat meaningless?

To put it simply.

Why shouldn't I?

I was born in 1953. I have seen and experienced many, many miscarriages of justice.

Call me an optimist with experience.

 

[Skwinty]

ETA: For someone who says that a lack of free time

There is a big difference between 10 hours and 10,000 hours

 

[LondonJohn]

To put it simply.

Why shouldn't I?

I was born in 1953. I have seen and experienced many, many miscarriages of justice.

Call me an optimist with experience.

I think you're misunderstanding me! In my opinion, there's absolutely no reason why you (or anyone else) shouldn't post on the JREF forum! It's you who's argued by implication that posting on here (JREF forum in general, not just the Knox threads) is essentially a waste of time. So I'm guessing that your "Why shouldn't I" answer means that you actually don't believe that to be true. That's all.

There is a big difference between 10 hours and 10,000 hours

But even the 13-odd posts that you've made starting with the "irrelevant" one - all of which dealt with this off-topic issue - could have more usefully (for you and for most of the rest of us) been employed discussing features of the actual case. So you had the time to post these 13 posts, but seemingly not the inclination to use that time to better effect by discussing the topic of the thread. I see......

Anyhow, that's the last I'll say on this issue. It's getting boring for me (let alone everyone else!), and it's pretty off-topic. I hope that you'll start to engage in the topic of the thread (issues surrounding the trials of Knox and Sollecito), but good luck to you if you decide not to.

 

[Skwinty]

* However, I think it's far from unlikely (in fact, I think it's more likely than not) that people directly connected to the case have read and followed the JREF Knox threads.

When I mentioned this aspect of the argument with reference to Kevin, you quite strongly disagreed with me.

What has changed?

 

[christianahannah]

I have read a lot of confessions and what Amanda's statements are missing are a whole lot of detail. Even during the normal false confession, the cops are able to get a few more details in one of those things.

What are the details in her story? What cops and prosecutors want are details that only the killer would know.

Whatever details that only the killer would know, were lessened when Amanda was moved from witness status to suspect status. Questioning more or less stopped (according to the penal code) for Amanda to either exonerate or incriminate herself further. I think this is why Amanda wrote the memorial - she was no longer being questioned and wanted to explain further her prior statements.

I don't think the police even viewed Amanda as the killer but maybe as covering for someone. I have not viewed either of her written statements or her memorial as confessions - she never said she murdered Meredith in any of them.

 

[Skwinty]

I don't think the police even viewed Amanda as the killer but maybe as covering for someone. I have not viewed either of her written statements or her memorial as confessions - she never said she murdered Meredith in any of them.

She did however say that she was in the house.

A question about the time scale and food ingestion.

What was the difference in time between Meredith eating food and Amanda arriving at the house?

 

[Skwinty]

It's you who's argued by implication that posting on here (JREF forum in general, not just the Knox threads) is essentially a waste of time. So I'm guessing that your "Why shouldn't I" answer means that you actually don't believe that to be true. That's all.

LondonJohn,

I argued that the opinions being posted on the Knox threads were irrelevant to the outcome of the case.

It turns out that could be false as the Italian courts could very well be swayed by public opinion.

I did not as you imply, state that posting on JREF on any other topic is a waste of time.

And you say I build strawmen.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

apple crumble

She did however say that she was in the house.

A question about the time scale and food ingestion.

What was the difference in time between Meredith eating food and Amanda arriving at the house?

Most estimates put the time of the meal at 6:00-6:30, though komponisto is willing to consider a slightly later time. They watched a 2-hour movie, The Notebook, and it is my understanding that they stopped the movie to eat dessert (apple crumble?).

The last undisputed interaction with Raffaele's computer is at 9:08, but the defense argues that a cartoon file (Naruto?) was opened at 9:26 (the metadata for the last time at which the Stardust file was opened was inadvertantly lost by the police but might have fallen into this time period). Ms. Popovic interacted with Ms. Knox at Sollecito's flat near 8:45. The earliest possible arrival time for Ms. Knox depends on some assumptions. Did she and Sollecito both stay for the 9:08 file to be played? the 9:26 file to be played? If they both stayed for this file, then it is tough to get them to her flat much before 10 PM.

My two main problems with assuming that Amanda left around 9 are that there would seem to be a need for some time for interaction between her and Rudi and there has to be some time for Amanda and Raffaele to get completely bombed out of their minds (to fit one theory of the crime, anyway), despite the fact that Amanda was acting normally according to Ms. Popovic. Also, if Amanda leaves Sollecito's flat without him, why would he go to her place, as opposed to expecting her to return to his. The prosecution's theory is that there was no premeditation, and Massei's theory is that this was a killing without animosity (implying that they were both wasted). MOO.

 

[Rolfe]

Are you saying, like Kevin, when he says that some forum members treat community like their own personal sandbox, that threads about Knox are someone elses personal sandbox?

Just asking here.

No. Just answering here.

Rolfe.

 

[Skwinty]

The last undisputed interaction with Raffaele's computer is at 9:08, but the defense argues that a cartoon file (Naruto?) was opened at 9:26 (the metadata for the last time at which the Stardust file was opened was inadvertantly lost by the police but might have fallen into this time period). .

Was the computer a laptop or desktop?

Was the the computer connected to the net?

If so, what method of connection? fixed line or 3G modem?

 

[Justinian2]

I have read a lot of confessions and what Amanda's statements are missing are a whole lot of detail. Even during the normal false confession, the cops are able to get a few more details in one of those things.

What are the details in her story? What cops and prosecutors want are details that only the killer would know.

I think Guede's testimony and actions are typical of the guilty person. He ran because he knew he was guilty, for one thing.

Amanda's actions were typical of an innocent and social (socially naive?) person. Amanda stayed and tried to help the police.

In conspiracies, one of the conspiracies tries to pin the blame on another conspirator. If Amanda knew Guede was involved, she would have tried to pin the blame on him or even Raffaele.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Just Encase you are interested

Was the computer a laptop or desktop?

Was the the computer connected to the net?

If so, what method of connection? fixed line or 3G modem?

Skwinty,

We are getting well outside my domain of expertise, but I think it was a Mac laptop loaned to Sollecito by his sister. This link comes from someone who knows a good deal more than i do.

 

[zeb]

Are you saying, like Kevin, when he says that some forum members treat community like their own personal sandbox, that threads about Knox are someone elses personal sandbox?

Just asking here.

ummmmm i see the flag and the flag means Jamacia.
Am I right.
Must get 1 question right

 

[JREF2010]

Most estimates put the time of the meal at 6:00-6:30, though komponisto is willing to consider a slightly later time. They watched a 2-hour movie, The Notebook, and it is my understanding that they stopped the movie to eat dessert (apple crumble?).

The last undisputed interaction with Raffaele's computer is at 9:08, but the defense argues that a cartoon file (Naruto?) was opened at 9:26 (the metadata for the last time at which the Stardust file was opened was inadvertantly lost by the police but might have fallen into this time period). Ms. Popovic interacted with Ms. Knox at Sollecito's flat near 8:45. The earliest possible arrival time for Ms. Knox depends on some assumptions. Did she and Sollecito both stay for the 9:08 file to be played? the 9:26 file to be played? If they both stayed for this file, then it is tough to get them to her flat much before 10 PM.

My two main problems with assuming that Amanda left around 9 are that there would seem to be a need for some time for interaction between her and Rudi and there has to be some time for Amanda and Raffaele to get completely bombed out of their minds (to fit one theory of the crime, anyway), despite the fact that Amanda was acting normally according to Ms. Popovic. Also, if Amanda leaves Sollecito's flat without him, why would he go to her place, as opposed to expecting her to return to his. The prosecution's theory is that there was no premeditation, and Massei's theory is that this was a killing without animosity (implying that they were both wasted). MOO.

From this perspective it is only fiction that can be the reality for the prosecutions accusations. I don't ever see the pro-guilt posts putting timelines to the event. I'd like to see more of that just to see where they are coming from?

And lets not forget the 10:13pm cell call ping on Merediths phone that was connected to a tower outside the cottage. Merediths calls that morning were from inside and connected to another tower.

So one has to apply fiction to imagine the prosecutions case, with science applied and witnesses, that they left Raffaeles post 9:26pm, after Popovic saw them, and then murdered and fled out of the cottage with Merediths phone by 10:13pm.

And the tow truck driver and customers not hearing a scream or even seeing any activity from 10:30 to 11:40pm.

It allows the murderer to have fled by 10:30pm too, per Rudy Guede's alibi, to Judge Matteini.