Gage: Hell No I Ain't Reading Mackey's White Paper

[grandmastershek]

So Ergo, does that mean that anytime buildings have any structure connecting them they are 1 building? If so what source confirms this? And don't forget that source that only the roofs collapsed.

 

[ergo]

Even though multiple sources that addresses it says you're wrong & 0 support you. But hey Ergo, you dictate reality.

Multiple sources tell me that four-storey buildings are considered highrises? Which sources would these be?

The sources show it was 4 stories, steel framed, 3 separate buildings, & at least 1 totally collapsed due to fire. But so far your hand waving seems to be enough to negate all that.

So only one building collapsed? Not all three? Did it collapse completely and progressively? Do you have a picture of this total collapse? Did the fire start on the top floor, weakening it and causing a "progressive collapse" through the three lower floors? Were the fires in the three buildings from three separate sources? Did the buildings have steel core structures which were also demolished? If you can't answer yes to these questions please explain the relevance of the Kader factory fire to the WTC highrises.

Take your time. We're in no hurry here.

 

[Marokkaan]

This is strange, now the debunkers say we have to listen to mackey HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[Marokkaan]

Gage does not have the time to do research, it will interfere with his fraud of getting people to donate to A&E.


2007 FORM 990-EZ - gross receipts - $45,132 2008 FORM 990-EZ - gross - $149,579 - 2009 FORM 990-EZ - gross - $344,570 - His goal, to make money, what is the goal for those too dumb to know they made a mistake donating part of the 300k? Gage is refining his fraud, his talk, he has no time to do more than use hearsay to attack Mackey; using hearsay as your evidence is a classic tactic for frauds, it is the backbone of 911 truth.

How much will be left, after the investigation, the time for the presentations etcetera.

And if he wants the money, the money should shared with the others. Or you really think he does it all by his own LOL

A very weak argument debunkers like to use it

 

[grandmastershek]

Multiple sources tell me that four-storey buildings are considered highrises? Which sources would these be?

I don't even know why I am bothering considering multiple points you have been outright wrong on yet here you are still parading your new clothes.
Judging by the source you provided the height is estimated around 35m = ~115 ft with 4 floors.

Source 1

Source 2

Source 3

So only one building collapsed? Not all three?

Wait...I thought you said not 1 did? You provided a source explicitly noting 1 completely did by such & such time. Notice how you danced around that and are quickly running away from your assertion.

Did it collapse completely and progressively?

Nice smokescreen Ergo. Had you read what YOU posted it stated explicitly at least 1 collapsed completely. The others they just say "collapsed". I am sure you will assume not completely.

Do you have a picture of this total collapse? Did the fire start on the top floor, weakening it and causing a "progressive collapse" through the three lower floors? Were the fires in the three buildings from three separate sources? Did the buildings have steel core structures which were also demolished? If you can't answer yes to these questions please explain the relevance of the Kader factory fire to the WTC highrises.

Wow...look at Ergo squirm! Sorry, you were wrong. 3 steel framed high rise buildings have collapsed due to fire in 1 day. You can shift your criteria around all you want, but the sad fact is that none of the sources agree with the BS you conjure from thin air.

Take your time. We're in no hurry here.

Obviously...

Where is that source that only the roof collapsed?

Where is that source saying they were 1 building?

Where is that source that they were 2 stories tall?

Take your time, its only been over 2 days (scratch that, 3 days) now.

Context for Ergo's short term memory:

Yes, and what a first time it was. Three separate buildings all on one day.

 

[beachnut]

How much will be left, after the investigation, the time for the presentations etcetera.

And if he wants the money, the money should shared with the others. Or you really think he does it all by his own LOL

A very weak argument debunkers like to use it

Gage can't debunk Mackey, so he lies and says he has not time to read. The moronic tripe he speaks leads me to suspect he can't read but...
2007 FORM 990-EZ - gross receipts - $45,132 2008 FORM 990-EZ - gross - $149,579 - 2009 FORM 990-EZ - gross - $344,570 - His goal, to make money. Mackey's paper would ruin Gage's scam, if 911 truth Followers could read and comprehend.

911 truth's goal which you seem to share, spread lies, Gage's goal, make money, travel for Free, and he can't read Mackey's paper. He has to bad mouth Mackey's paper, because if 911 truth could read it and comprehend Mackey's paper, 911 truth would not be spreading moronic lies and delusions. How much did you make repeating lies? Any money?

911 truth has no argument, 911 truth is built on delusions. Gage is not researching 911, he is using 911 to make money. Gage can't debunk Mackey, you can't debunk Mackey. Now what to do?

 

[ergo]

Wow...look at Ergo squirm! Sorry, you were wrong. 3 steel framed high rise buildings have collapsed due to fire in 1 day. You can shift your criteria around all you want, but the sad fact is that none of the sources agree with the BS you conjure from thin air.

Yes, look at me squirm...I'm so uncomfortable in the searing spotlight of bedunker "logic"..

So -- again -- is it your contention that four-storey buildings are highrises? If so, why has the Kader fire not been included in NIST's Historical Collapse Survey?



You have yet to explain the relevance of this fire to the WTC fires.

Did the fire start on the top floor, weakening it and causing a "progressive collapse" through the three lower floors?

No? Then why are you trying to compare it to the WTC?

Were the fires in the three buildings from three separate sources?

No? Then why are you pretending they were?

Did the buildings have steel core structures which were also demolished?

No? Then why are you comparing this collapse to the WTC?

Did all three buildings collapse?

No? Then why are you comparing it to the WTC?

Do you have any pictures of this total collapse?

No? Why are you trying to claim the devastation was even remotely comparable?


Again:

Initial reports following the May 1993 fire noted that there were four buildings on the Kader site, three of which were destroyed by the fire. In a sense this is true, but the three buildings were actually a single E-shaped structure (see figure 39.13)

Once again, Shek: What is the relevance of the Kader factory fire to the WTC disasters? Answer the question.

 

[Marokkaan]

Gage can't debunk Mackey, so he lies and says he has not time to read. The moronic tripe he speaks leads me to suspect he can't read but...
2007 FORM 990-EZ - gross receipts - $45,132 2008 FORM 990-EZ - gross - $149,579 - 2009 FORM 990-EZ - gross - $344,570 - His goal, to make money. Mackey's paper would ruin Gage's scam, if 911 truth Followers could read and comprehend.

911 truth's goal which you seem to share, spread lies, Gage's goal, make money, travel for Free, and he can't read Mackey's paper. He has to bad mouth Mackey's paper, because if 911 truth could read it and comprehend Mackey's paper, 911 truth would not be spreading moronic lies and delusions. How much did you make repeating lies? Any money?

911 truth has no argument, 911 truth is built on delusions. Gage is not researching 911, he is using 911 to make money. Gage can't debunk Mackey, you can't debunk Mackey. Now what to do?

Mackey has not the expertise to talk about it....

Uhhh, you know that he is not the only one who is busy.

Can you tell me if the people like niels harrit, jef farrer, mark basile, szamboti and other experts, the workers for richard gage, who helps with the website, publishing etcetera.

All those people, they dont get money, and only richard gage is getting money.

And all those investments for the products, the presentations, the time he's making free, etcetera.

Does it make any sense what you telling me LOL

 

[grandmastershek]

If so, why has it not been included in NIST's Historical Collapse Survey?

Oooh and argument from silence. You sure showed me!



[qyote]You have yet to explain the relevance of this fire to the WTC fires. [/quote]
Because that's not what you said. 3 buildings in 1 day. Your quote, here for all to see. But I guess if truthers wrote "First time in history 2 airliners crashed at ~500 MPH into 2 tube in tube designed skyscrapers which removed the fire protection, remained totally unfought, collapsed into a third skyscraper which remained totally unfought for 5+ hours, it wouldn't be as compelling. Hence why you need to keep it to little snippets that really are not historically or factually accurate; but hey, their easy to remember & takes 0 research. Then proceed with mental gymnastics to assert your original assertion appear correct.

Again:



Let me know when you stop dancing Ergo:
Where is that source that only the roof collapsed?

Where is that source saying they were 1 building?

Where is that source that they were 2 stories tall?

Take your time, its only been over 2 days (scratch that, 3 days) now.

Context for Ergo's short term memory:[/QUOTE]

 

[ergo]

So, according to Shek himself, since he not only can't answer the question, he can't even support the claims he's made, there is no comparison between or relevance of the Kader fire to the WTC fires.

Is there some cognitive reason bedunkers can't just say what they mean? Is it really all about wasting everyone's time?

Next.

 

[grandmastershek]

So, according to Shek himself, since he not only can't answer the question, he can't even support the claims he's made, there is no comparison between or relevance of the Kader fire to the WTC fires.

Is there some cognitive reason bedunkers can't just say what they mean? Is it really all about wasting everyone's time?

Next.

The comparison is based on your claim that it was a first time 3 buildings collapsed on the same day; which I have repeatedly copied and pasted. But hey reality is subjective I guess. Pretend its not there and I guess its not.

What claim did I make that I can't support. Quote me directly. Speaking of:
Where is that source that only the roof collapsed?

Where is that source saying they were 1 building?

Where is that source that they were 2 stories tall?

Take your time, its only been over 2 days (scratch that, 3 days, going on 4) now.

I love when truthers try to save face like this when the record of their babbling is here for all to enjoy. Caution...profanity.

 

[ergo]

The comparison is based on your claim that it was a first time 3 buildings collapsed on the same day; which I have repeatedly copied and pasted. But hey reality is subjective I guess. Pretend its not there and I guess its not.

What a sad waste of time, because I've never claimed it was the first time three buildings collapsed on the same day. In fact, I'm fairly certain there have been some natural disasters which have caused multiple structural collapses on a single day.

What has never happened is a steel-framed highrise collapsing completely from fire, let alone three on a single day. Let alone top down from upper structural damage. Let alone symmetrically. Let alone in under 15 seconds each. What is so difficult for you to grasp about this?


Oh, and:

Initial reports following the May 1993 fire noted that there were four buildings on the Kader site, three of which were destroyed by the fire. In a sense this is true, but the three buildings were actually a single E-shaped structure (see figure 39.13)

 

[grandmastershek]

What a sad waste of time, because I've never claimed it was the first time three buildings collapsed on the same day.

What a sad miserable delusional person you are. Do you actually think everyone forgets the BS you spew & that's its not easily reproducible?

Because no other steel-framed highrises have ever experienced complete collapse from fire.

[...]

Yes, and what a first time it was. Three separate buildings all on one day.

In fact, I'm fairly certain there have been some natural disasters which have caused multiple structural collapses on a single day.

What has never happened is a steel-framed highrise [Your own source and the definition of multiple sources disagree] collapsing completely from fire [Again your own source disagrees], let alone three on a single day. [Again your own source disagrees]Let alone top down from upper structural damage Oh joy another parameter we need to fulfill because your last 4 or 5 attempts were FoS. Let alone symmetrically Ahh yes, more lies form Ergo. We all know the spire & penthouse weren't part of the collapse. Let alone in under 15 seconds eachWhich is not only irrelevant but far and away nowhere near FFA, but Iguess this is a ploy to divert attention away from the fact that your claims by and large for the last 2 days are totally fabricated.. What is so difficult for you to grasp about this?Oh trust me I get it. You make a baseless claim, then get called on it, and try to dance around all the inconvnient facts proving you wrong in the hope that you make your original claim appear right. Its actually fairly predictable

Ergo is just a dancing machine!
Where is that source that only the roof collapsed?

Where is that source saying they were 1 building?

Where is that source that they were 2 stories tall?

Take your time, its only been over 2 days (scratch that, 3 days) now.

 

[ergo]

Shek, are you pestering me for details that are irrelevant to both our arguments in order to cover up the fact that you have no point?

Whatever details -- such as four storeys rather than two storeys -- that I may have got wrong is because they don't make any difference to the fact that there is no relevant comparison between the Kader fire and the WTC fires.

The source that corrects you on your notion that three buildings plummeted to the ground on that day in Thailand has been cited twice.

Moreover, you seem to be suffering from the 9/11 bedunker disease that confuses parts with the whole.

Got relevance??

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I said this in response to the kevin ryan thread; since the other examples are supposed to model the behavior that the WTC should have exhibited instead of complete collapse then it should have been a no brainer to ask why the results were different from the WTC. It's their laziness and inability to comprehend differences in construction methods that's made me rather impatient with the TM in general. This sort of thing is as basic as it gets.

 

[grandmastershek]

Whatever details -- such as four storeys rather than two storeys -- that I may have got wrong is because they don't make any difference to the fact that there is no relevant comparison between the Kader fire and the WTC fires.

How would you know? So far there are at least 3 claims you made that seem to have no basis in reality. You set up the premise it isn't my fault that it had no evidence to support it. Somehow you think if you say "no steel framed building", but point out totally irrelevant details (not to mention completely make s*** up) which have nothing to do with it being steel framed, a high rise or on fire, that somehow makes it not a steel framed high rise collapsing due to fire.

Got relevance??

Indeed...your claim that No steel framed high rise has never collapsed due to fire is inherently wrong. That was your claim which i am addressing. hiding and dancing doesn't help. Kader was a high rise by definition, it was steel framed, and it was 3 buildings. All the evidence shows that. Your denial and need to be dishonest to make yourself feel better is no concern of mine. If you need to, say it to yourself in the mirror.

The source that corrects you on your notion that three buildings plummeted to the ground on that day in Thailand has been cited twice.

Nice way to try change the parameters again and make s*** up. Your claim has been no steel framed building, then went with 3 in one day; something you claimed never saying which turned out to be false as anyone who read this thread knows. Yet as we have seen it has. So you keep changing it up, and making ◊◊◊◊ up. Let me guess that's the link you and I have repeatedly posted, yet you seem to be unable to directly quote?
Here's another:

The fire completely destroyed three of the four large buildings.

Oh well, here is a second source confirming my claims, something you have repeatedly failed to do.

Despite the firefighters best efforts, Building One collapsed completely at approximately 5:14 pm [Remember when you said none of them did?]...Building Two reportedly collapsed at 5:30 pm and Building Three at 6:05 pm.

So...your claim was no steel framed highrise [check we have 3 by definition], has ever collapsed due to fire[check we have 3 steel framed highrises that were on fire and collapsed]. Now I know this isn't convenient because its a time honored mantra of truthers everywhere, but it would be nice if you joined us in reality at some point.

 

[beachnut]

Mackey has not the expertise to talk about it....

Uhhh, you know that he is not the only one who is busy.

Can you tell me if the people like niels harrit, jef farrer, mark basile, szamboti and other experts, the workers for richard gage, who helps with the website, publishing etcetera.

All those people, they dont get money, and only richard gage is getting money.

And all those investments for the products, the presentations, the time he's making free, etcetera.

Does it make any sense what you telling me LOL

Mackey has the expertise to debunk 911 truth. And most of the claims of 911 truth can be debunked with a grade school education, if you paid attention. 911 offers zero technical evidence to support any of the claims, implied claims and other delusional nonsense.

His only goal is to make money fooling people who can't figure out 911, and have no clue Gage is a fraud. Gage does nothing to solve 911, he needs 911 to remaing the cash cow he uses to milk money from gullible people willing to let Gage do the thinking for them.

... niels harrit, jef farrer, mark basile, szamboti and other experts, all fail to understand 911, or make progress on exposing what would be a BIG Pulitzer Prize if true. But 911 truth and Gage are not reality based goal oriented groups. Remember you are supporting the people who think the WTC is a the real cd deal. And you support them without evidence, without the understanding they have no evidence, without the foresight to understand they never will have evidence. Rational thinkers, people with skill at researching and logic, will if fooled by Gage and 911 truth figure out they are basically liars, and they will one day let their true intelligence come through, rise up and live out the true meaning of being intelligent¹, thinking for themselves, exposing 911 truth as false, a 1984/NAZI like name for fraud, "911 truth".

Gage is selling lies, collecting money due to other people's ignorance. There is a sucker born every minute. [SUP]2[/SUP]

Maybe one day you will understand 911, and see Gage is a fraud, or extremely stupid. Good luck, 911 truth and Gage have 10 years of failure in the bag, how many years will you fail with them?

1 MLK http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm
2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute​

 

[ergo]

Kader was a high rise by definition, it was steel framed, and it was 3 buildings.

It was not a highrise; it had no steel core structure; it was an 'E'-shaped building which suffered total collapse in only one of its units. No progressive collapse. No outside buildings collapsing to the earth out of sympathy for the others. No relevance; no comparison.

Let it go.

 

[grandmastershek]

It was not a highrise[wrong]; it had no steel core structure[another of the ever shifting goal posts which will somehow make it not a steel framed building collapsing due to fire]; it was an 'E'-shaped building which suffered total collapse in only one of its units[wrong...didn't you say none of them did and only the roof collapsed?]. No progressive collapse.[Wrong..."The first fire apparatus arrived at 4:40 p.m...Arriving fire-fighters found Building One heavily involved in flames and already beginning to collapse". Kind of weird, that's your own source.] No outside buildings collapsing to the earth out of sympathy for the others [Another goal post moved due to inconvenient facts. FYI buildings don;t have sympathy, no matter what the statues tell you. Yet again Ergo is being liberal with the facts]. No relevance; no comparison. [Yes we know Ergo, that somehow negates it as 3 steel framed buildings collapsing due to fire, ya know, your BS argument.]

Let it go.

By no means, I will keep linking to the evidence you pretend doesn't exist and the claims you state you never made. If nothing else it will be a nice demonstration of how FoS you are for those who don't know any better.

 

[ergo]

I think we should start a thread for Shek to elucidate his "four-storey factory buildings are highrises!" theory...