Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Not a psychopath but a witch maybe. A witch can fly and hover over a crime scene without leaving any DNA trace yet still be involved in murder. I have an uncle who is really an aunt who has a brother who says so.
 
bucketoftea said:
...and we have yet to see if the court thinks the clasp and knife are unreliable.
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Hellmann has said that the prosecution is no longer allowed to say it is Meredith's DNA on the Knife or Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasep. The experts have reported and he is following that report. How is it possible to find them reliable in this situation?
 
Draca said:
Hellmann has said that the prosecution is no longer allowed to say it is Meredith's DNA on the Knife or Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasep. The experts have reported and he is following that report. How is it possible to find them reliable in this situation?
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I hadn't heard that Hellmann issued that directive. That is very, very significant. What is the source for this?
 
O, Dan.

"Everything Amanda has said has been 100% compatible with her telling the truth."

Are you saying she told the truth 100%? or do you mean something else?

I don't believe that "He's bad! I'm scared of him!" followed by a detailed story of how Patrick killed Meredith resulted from "confusion". It resulted from panic when Raffaele withdrew her alibi.
 
Draca said:
Hellmann has said that the prosecution is no longer allowed to say it is Meredith's DNA on the Knife or Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasep. The experts have reported and he is following that report. How is it possible to find them reliable in this situation?
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I don't know what you're talking about. Have you a cite for what you say Hellmann disallows to be said?
 
komponisto said:
The other evidence is suspect for other reasons. (Details only if you're really interested, and not trolling.)
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My definition of trolling maybe different to yours.:D



komponisto said:
Good for you. Hopefully the next time you're interrogated all night in a foreign language by a tag team of police who wrongly suspect you participating in murder on a night when you were high on reefer, you'll have the fortitude to resist any pressure they may put on you to confirm any part of their speculations.
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There was nothing I could have done to prevent my upbringing and the fact that it defines me, but your point is valid.

What would I do in that situation?

Keeping on telling them the same truth over and over and over again.
That is the most consistent and easiest thing to do, unless you were high on a lot more than marijuana.

When the tag teams started with the physical torture then it is quite possible that I would sing whatever tune the piper called.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
Here are a couple of photos that give a better view of what was on the bed:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/dsc_0117.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/dsc_0171.jpg

My guess is that these books were lying on the bed when Guede yanked it off, and they slid over to the wall.

Guede's DNA was indeed found on the purse on the bed.

It's possible to determine that certain events happened between the moment when Meredith's throat was cut and the time she stopped breathing, because of the blood spray aspirated from the wound. During those few minutes, she collapsed in front of the wardrobe and was dragged out into the middle of the room to the spot where she was found, presumably because it was easier to disrobe her in a more open area. Her shirts were pulled up, her bra was ripped off her body, and she was rolled onto her back.

That is the limit of what can be determined from the the blood spray evidence. From then on, we have to figure out what took place and fit each event into the sequence that seems most plausible. I think Guede's next move was to wipe an area of the floor with towels, remove her lower garments, put a pillow under her buttocks, and sexually assault her.

I think he then went into the bathroom to clean up. If he had sat on her bed and gone through her purse before doing so, I think he'd have left more blood deposits there.

He may have spread the quilt over her body before or after going to the bathroom to clean up.

He returned from the bathroom, grabbed the knife off the floor, and set it on the bed next to him. He sat on the edge of the bed and went through her purse, taking what he wanted. Then he stood up to walk out of the room, and he put his left shoe on a bloody towel that was jutting out from under the duvet, which is visible in one of the photos linked above. That is how he left bloody shoe prints near the foot of the bed and in the corridor.

Many of you have seen this, but here again is Ron Hendry's reconstruction of the crime:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/hendry_reconstruction.jpg
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I agree, they were on the bed and then slid over when the Duvet was yanked, makes sense.

The spot between O and J, is cleared as if the person sat there.

Notice the knife is probably where the left-hand held the knife (O) touched the bedsheet leaving the knife pattern, as he sat between.

Interesting info...
 
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RandyN said:
Not a psychopath but a witch maybe. A witch can fly and hover over a crime scene without leaving any DNA trace yet still be involved in murder. I have an uncle who is really an aunt who has a brother who says so.
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Don't you find it odd that Amanda lived in that house, and yet they found very little evidence of her DNA?
 
RandyN said:
Not a psychopath but a witch maybe. A witch can fly and hover over a crime scene without leaving any DNA trace yet still be involved in murder. I have an uncle who is really an aunt who has a brother who says so.
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Maybe not a cyclepath, but an angry girl with a huge chip on her shoulder for one reason or other, feeling entitled to the experiences she desires, nevermind the cost. I am thinking inpart here of the way she abused her German relatives' efforts for her.

If not this angry girl, one waaaay too immature to to have embarked on this adventure.
 
tip of the hat to Kestrel for pointing this out

bucketoftea said:
Very good point about telling the truth, but I think Amanda has parents of the other sort.
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Evidence? And please don't give me a line about how Amanda's parents should have told her to go to the authorities and discuss Patrick once she was incarcerated. Once a person is incarcerated, their best option is unequivocally to keep quiet except when their lawyer is present. Both the innocent and the guilty can do a great deal of harm to themselves by talking to the authorities without legal representation. The authorities made a bad decision to arrest Patrick without checking his alibi and only interrogating him after his arrest.
 
Draca said:
Hellmann has said that the prosecution is no longer allowed to say it is Meredith's DNA on the Knife or Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasep. The experts have reported and he is following that report. How is it possible to find them reliable in this situation?
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I repeat. Cite? or lie?
 
a random sampling of the bathroom would have been nice

Skwinty said:
Don't you find it odd that Amanda lived in that house, and yet they found very little evidence of her DNA?
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Skwinty,

No, I do not; are you implying that this is evidence of a cleanup? They were not looking for her DNA in a comprehensive sense, from what I can judge. From the selected list of DNA results that Charlie presented here, I would say that they were very interested in putative blood spots and a small number of undetermined substances.

I wish that they had sampled the bathroom randomly; my hypothesis is that they would have found Amanda's DNA all over the place. This would help to put the mixed DNA samples into context. DNA comes from saliva, skin, mucous, etc. Our toothbrushes and dental floss probably have a good deal of the stuff. I posted a link about this some time ago, but I don't have it handy. This link looks OK.
 
bucketoftea said:
I don't know what you're talking about. Have you a cite for what you say Hellmann disallows to be said?
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Eyewitness description of what was said in court. Hellmann, I've been told by someone who was there, told Comodi to stop calling it Meredith's DNA because the experts have said it is unreliable. I don't expect you to accept this statement. I will tell you that is what I've been told though.
 
halides1 said:
Evidence? And please don't give me a line about how Amanda's parents should have told her to go to the authorities and discuss Patrick once she was incarcerated. Once a person is incarcerated, their best option is unequivocally to keep quiet except when their lawyer is present. Both the innocent and the guilty can do a great deal of harm to themselves by talking to the authorities without legal representation. The authorities made a bad decision to arrest Patrick without checking his alibi and only interrogating him after his arrest.
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Actually, I was thinking of the jailhouse conversation where she seems to want to tell the truth and her parents shut her up, but now you mention it, she should have retracted the accusation. She didn't. It looks for all the world she would be hoping that he would go down for it. Amanda Marie Knox is solely responsible for Lumumba's arrest
 
Draca said:
Eyewitness description of what was said in court. Hellmann, I've been told by someone who was there, told Comodi to stop calling it Meredith's DNA because the experts have said it is unreliable. I don't expect you to accept this statement. I will tell you that is what I've been told though.
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Of course no one would accept this authorless statement.
 
Skwinty said:
So Amanda lied when she admitted her presence in the house and that she covered her ears so she could not hear Meredith screaming while bleeding to death.
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I don't know. I do know about false confessions though. Have you read about the Stefan Kiszko case? Confession and eyewitness evidence are among the least reliable classes of evidence.

If the physical evidence says Meredith died soon after 9pm, and Amanda could not possibly have been present at that time, then something is wrong. You have to decide, is it the physical evidence, or the alibi, or the "confession".

If the physical evidence and the alibi are sound, they don't just go away just because of something Amanda said while in the sort of situation that is quite well documented to produce "confessions" which are later retracted.

You can't defy the laws of physiology, no matter what the dippy Miss Knox said at any particular time.

Rolfe.
 
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Skwinty said:
Don't you find it odd that Amanda lived in that house, and yet they found very little evidence of her DNA?
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Would you care to give a few examples of places in the house they sampled, where you'd have expected her DNA, but didn't find any?

Rolfe.
 
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