Reasonable doubt...All truthers(and whoever esle) please read

[grandmastershek]

Here's an even better example...this guy heats it to just over 1800F or the temperatures of the fires....tell me you can't see a difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30OVAvg1aGQ

Yet we keep showing you that's not always the case. Is youtube your Bible?

Not to mention you're assuming a pure sample.

Find those U shaped steel beams yet? Find any real sources besides your speculation that refute any of mine? Keep dodging.

 

[tmd2_1]

Oddly enough as its falling and before it hits the colder pan, its ORANGE!

All metals have that glow right after heating, he explains everything in that video. Look at the last drop he pours...clearly silver before it hits the pan.

 

[jaydeehess]

Geez, go out for dinner and the thread has grown four more pages, kee-rist.
.

Dinner?
I should have gone to bed an hour ago. Its midnight and I have a busy day tomorrow(today).

I can hardly wait to see how many more pages there are when I get a chance to log on again

 

[grandmastershek]

Why would I expect to see reports...I mean it would only make sense...there was clearly melting if it was cladding...I would just expect to see pictures and reports of it wouldn't you?

Because as has already been addressed and you ignored it, melted materials is common place in fires. Your LA LA LA LA LAAAAA!!! approach to reality isn't impressive. So far its steel cause you say so. Sad way to go through life.

 

[tmd2_1]

Yet we keep showing you that's not always the case. Is youtube your Bible?


[qimg]http://www.westyorkssteel.com/images/htchar1.gif[/qimg]

Not to mention you're assuming a pure sample.

Find those U shaped steel beams yet? Find any real sources besides your speculation that refute any of mine? Keep dodging.

How can it not always be the case? Is there a different way to heat aluminum to 1800F...if there is let me know.

 

[TJM]

Dinner?

OK, drinks too.

 

[grandmastershek]

How can it not always be the case? Is there a different way to heat aluminum to 1800F

Because there are different alloys of aluminum FFS.

...if there is let me know.

If it were only that simple. Sadly when you see contradictory evidence you just go right along strolling like your singing in the rain while someone pisses on you.

 

[jaydeehess]

All metals have that glow right after heating, he explains everything in that video. Look at the last drop he pours...clearly silver before it hits the pan.

sighs

one last post then it slumber time.

NO its predominantly orange until it hits the pan. I ran through it several times myself.

Lastly, he heated a block of pure Al. What would an infusion of carbon based dirt, concrete dust, and sundry other bits (cotton rayon, tin, plastic and possibly a human,,, well ok except for tin they all constitute carbon based bits) do to the colour and behaviour of it?

 

[tmd2_1]

Because there are different alloys of aluminum FFS.
...if there is let me know.

If it were only that simple. Sadly when you see contradictory evidence you just go right along strolling like your singing in the rain while someone pisses on you.[/QUOTE]

Do you really think someone that was trying to disprove the it was aluminum at the WTC would use anything that different then what was there?

 

[grandmastershek]

Do you really think someone that was trying to disprove the it was aluminum at the WTC would use anything that different then what was there?

I see so your deferring to the academic integrity of youtube. Wow.

Where in the video does he cite the reference of the kind form the WTC?? Oh right he didn't. He references " 2000 series...some stock I got from work". Sounds real rigorous. You got a person who is trying to work with aluminum in a kitchen to represent a controlled study. Do you know wtf a controlled experiment is? For someone who constantly rambles about research you sure do a piss poor job. Your problem is that you think anyone that agrees with you on youtube knows what they are doing. The problem is you don't, so your source material will obviously be similar in quality.

 

[tmd2_1]

sighs

one last post then it slumber time.

NO its predominantly orange until it hits the pan. I ran through it several times myself.

Lastly, he heated a block of pure Al. What would an infusion of carbon based dirt, concrete dust, and sundry other bits (cotton rayon, tin, plastic and possibly a human,,, well ok except for tin they all constitute carbon based bits) do to the colour and behaviour of it?

No it's not...you can see some of it hanging off of the cylinder that's already turned silver. It's right there, there is no way to miss it no way at all. I'm sure infusing those things would turn to the exact color steel is when it melts there can be no doubt it has to be that way right? Besides look at the south tower and what was falling from there if it were aluminum it should have been silver. He said this all in the video...yet you ignored it... and now you are going to bed. Knowing what my response would be..why is that?

 

[tmd2_1]

I see so your deferring to the academic integrity of youtube. Wow.

Where in the video does he cite the reference of the kind form the WTC?? Oh right he didn't. He references " 2000 series...some stock I got from work". Sounds real rigorous. You got a person who is trying to work with aluminum in a kitchen to represent a controlled study. Do you know wtf a controlled experiment is? For someone who constantly rambles about research you sure do a piss poor job.

I think this is more sad then anything else really. A guy in his kitchen does in a few moments, what NIST and other agencies should have done a long time ago. What one guy did in his kitchen casts serious doubt on the whole story. Think about that.

 

[grandmastershek]

What one guy did in his kitchen casts serious doubt on the whole story. Think about that.

The fact that you defer to that as evidence and consider that rigorous enough to cast doubt says a lot. Cute dodge though. Where did he reference the alloy form the WTC? Oh right you failed to answer that because its inconvenient. I guess we will add that to the long list of things you've dodged.Typical truther is typically ignorant.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

You just proved my point...does it matter what you call them? All that matters is people, who have absolutely no reason to lie reported they were melting, and yet that means nothing. All that is important is what they are called?

Only if you want to be taken seriously. Probably too late for you now, so call 'em whatever you want.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Here's an even better example...this guy heats it to just over 1800F or the temperatures of the fires....tell me you can't see a difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30OVAvg1aGQ

Glad my wife's not a truther. If I caught her pouring hot aluminum into my nonstick pans she'd be sleeping in the chicken coop.

So. What are you trying to prove?

 

[grandmastershek]

Glad my wife's not a truther. If I caught her pouring hot aluminum into my nonstick pans she'd be sleeping in the chicken coop.

So. What are you trying to prove?

He's trying to prove that he looked at a picture and divined that it was molten steel just by looking at it even though he has failed to identify any actual steel in the picture that would exist in the WTC. More or less he is deferring to people just as ignorant as him tio bolster his argument because if he's an expert obviously all these smart people on youtbe are! Low bar if you ask me...the guy doesn't even know wtf a beam is or what shape they are.

Sorry tmd, but what ever that thing grabbed up by the claw is, it ain't molten.

ANYTHING glowing MUST be molten steel!

 

[1337m4n]

tmd2_1, I challenge you to take my Molten Metal Identification Challenge.

 

[MikeW]

Your own link said....Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI....do you really think they would say he said it...if he didn't? And if they did, I'm sure the FBI would take action against them.

As for what Haas really believes how is that at all relevant? If anything it only strengthens the authenticity that what he said of Tomb is true. If he believes the official story why would he lie about something to make it look bad? In regards to the confession tape, have a look at these.

http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/...-supreme-leader-mullah-mohammed-omar?_s=PM:US


http://www.serendipity.li/wot/obl_int.htm

Much as I expected.

You take one story you like from Haas, when he believed bin Laden was being framed. You ignore the one when he changed his mind and took a more LIHOP approach. You demand official pronouncements from the FBI, and ignore them when they're presented. You demand clarification from the FBI, I check with them and tell you they say the no hard evidence quote doesn't accurately explain the situation, but you don't want to hear about that, either.

I've been saying recently that being a truther appears to involve little more than finding new ways to ignore counter evidence, and you've confirmed that very well. Thanks for that.

Anyway, you carry on pretending you have a case, it's obviously very important to you. There's really no point debating with someone who's this determined to ignore reality, though, so I'll bow out here I think: adios.

 

[grandmastershek]

tmd2_1, I challenge you to take my Molten Metal Identification Challenge.

No cheating? Now that's not very truthy is it?

 

[gumboot]

And did JOhn gross interviewed all those eyewitnesses?

It's unlikely he did personally, but there's a good chance NIST investigators did.