Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Pilot Padron said:
1) A Library Card Holder
2) A Googler
3) A teacher of 7th grade *gifted* students
4) a communications engineer
5) A Vertical Gardener
6) A Veterinarian
7) A) self produced, self submitted You Tube
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Draca said:
Just for fun.... Who is pilot padron talking about?

1. London John
2.
3. Kevin Lowe
4.
5. Mark Waterbury
6. Rolfe
7. Steve Moore's Today Show?


Who are the others?

Btw Pilot, Mark Waterbury and Steve Moore haven't posted in the - 58,345+ posts - so how did they confirm it here?
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1. London John
2. All of JREF
3. Kevin Lowe
4. London John again--his 'double' in Texas!
5. Mark Waterbury
6. Rolfe
7. Bruce Fisher?

I've no real idea on the last, though if I recall correctly from reading the threads that Bruce Fisher put together a video regarding the closing of a door that some thought very telling regarding his interest in the case. I suppose he might have uploaded to Youtube?

LJ is a very important personage in Pilot's posting career, he always gets special attention from him, thus was listed twice, perhaps unconsciously. At any rate he's admitted to a degree in communications engineering and is the one regularly denigrated at PMF for employing books (!) in the pursuit of knowledge, a process deeply suspicious to the denizens down the Rabbit Hole.

You see it's tough to turn the pages with their little paws, and their whiskers get caught in the binding sometimes!
 
LondonJohn said:
And nor do they want to tell you that the mixed-DNA from the bathroom sink was clear evidence that Knox's DNA and Meredith's blood DNA were deposited at the same time, because the crime scene video tells the whole world just how terribly these specimen swabs were collected - in long smearing motions that picked up everything some 2-3 inches either side of the small dilute blood droplets.
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To those with interest in the latest lies Steff just told while conveniently useing the Commodi shield. The rubbish about posting nonexistant documents in court regarding negative controls, would have been worthless anyway, because of her entry for America's Funniest Home Videos...
 
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Kaosium said:
1. London John
2. All of JREF
3. Kevin Lowe
4. London John again--his 'double' in Texas!
5. Mark Waterbury
6. Rolfe
7. Bruce Fisher?

I've no real idea on the last, though if I recall correctly from reading the threads that Bruce Fisher put together a video regarding the closing of a door that some thought very telling regarding his interest in the case. I suppose he might have uploaded to Youtube?

LJ is a very important personage in Pilot's posting career, he always gets special attention from him, thus was listed twice, perhaps unconsciously. At any rate he's admitted to a degree in communications engineering and is the one regularly denigrated at PMF for employing books (!) in the pursuit of knowledge, a process deeply suspicious to the denizens down the Rabbit Hole.

You see it's tough to turn the pages with their little paws, and their whiskers get caught in the binding sometimes!
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You're right, 7) has to be Bruce Fisher. LJ twice! Those two do have fun don't they. :D

Hey, that was tricky of you Pilot! How were we suppose to guess you would put someone twice? Unfair! :(
 
halides1 said:
, "An entry from the American girl's diary listed seven sexual partners, three of whom she met after she had moved to Italy, excluding her co-defendant, Rafaelle Sollecito. She had had sex with one of the men on the train as she was travelling to Perugia...Meredith Kercher soon began having reservations about Knox, particularly about her bringing 'strange men' to the house." Meredith thought one man (Juval?) Amanda invited over was strange, but he was not Amanda's intimate partner. Amanda did not have sex with anyone on the Perugia-bound train, and indeed had only one other sexual partner in Italy before Raffaele. So the facts that underlie her opinion are false.
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And as we can see from the semen stain on the pillow that the cops didn't test, yeah sure, also Rudy had sex with a girl who had died or lay dying.
But don't mention that to the 'Perugian Murderer's Friends' website because as someone else here said

'Just hate. hate, hate, and hate. Hate that b****. 'cos that's all there is....
 
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christianahannah said:
I have been reviewing the SAL work records and the test results. There were many hair (of differing lengths and colors) recovered and tested during the investigation (along with some fibers). Has it been sourced that a hair was/is missing?
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Well, I feel like a mind-blown moron! Twice now I've went looking for hairs and I'm not sure what you're referring to regarding 'SAL work records.' Is this in Massei? Something available online in English or can be translated through google?

Incidentally, I've seen three references to a 10k page 'case document' that some have perused. Where and how did they get access to it, does anyone know?
 
Draca said:
Dan O.,

It was probably folded toward the end of the bed. There is plenty of room there where marker 8 and the towel are in this photo:

http://www.facebook.com/editphoto.p...01286599.45660.106344459390034&type=1&theater
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Draca,

That sounds like a strange way for Meredith to have arranged her bedding.

There had been a top sheet and a bottom sheet on Meredith's bed. When the murder was discovered, the bottom "fitted" sheet was found still on the bed. The top sheet was found balled up and bloody next to Meredith.

Where was the top sheet on Meredith's bed when the struggle began? Folded back over the duvet at the foot of the bed?


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Fine said:
Draca,

That sounds like a strange way for Meredith to have arranged her bedding.

There had been a top sheet and a bottom sheet on Meredith's bed. When the murder was discovered, the bottom "fitted" sheet was found still on the bed. The top sheet was found balled up and bloody next to Meredith.

Where was the top sheet on Meredith's bed when the struggle began? Folded back over the duvet at the foot of the bed?
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True. I do think it is most likely the comforter was toward the end of the bed though. Whether folded or pushed down because the bed wasn't made that day.
 
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Fine said:
_________________________

Draca,

That sounds like a strange way for Meredith to have arranged her bedding.

There had been a top sheet and a bottom sheet on Meredith's bed. When the murder was discovered, the bottom "fitted" sheet was found still on the bed. The top sheet was found balled up and bloody next to Meredith.

Where was the top sheet on Meredith's bed when the struggle began? Folded back over the duvet at the foot of the bed?


///
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How bloody was it? Rudy might have tried to use it to sop up blood before he went for the towels. If he grabbed at it and yanked, he might well have sent the duvet flying.
 
My thought was that the duvet had been flipped off the bed onto the floor earlier when the sheets were removed to be washed. It looks like Meredith's right arm ends up on top of the edge of the duvet while the rest of the duvet is flopped over her. We also know that Meredith was doing laundry that day.
 
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I wonder if the sheet and duvet were on the unmade bed and simply grabbed quickly and pulled off, leaving the other objects in place ala the table cloth trick...

I remember something about odd objects on top of the duvet after it covered Meredith...a receipt or ticket or some other objects ....Im drawing a blank at the moment.
 
Dan O. said:
My thought was that the duvet had been flipped off the bed onto the floor earlier when the sheets were removed to be washed. It looks like Meredith's right arm ends up on top of the edge of the duvet while the rest of the duvet is flopped over her. We also know that Meredith was doing laundry that day.
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I doubt Meredith would place her bedding on the floor. If she did that while changing the bottom sheet then she would have picked it up after replacing the bottom sheet. We don't know if that was a fresh bottom sheet from storage. She probably had at least two sets because they used the drying rack for drying. She did one load of laundry but may not have been doing the bedding that day. If she did wash her bottom sheet then she would have done the top sheet at the same time. That if anything would make it more likely that the top sheet was folded at the end of the bed.
 
There is a concert reciept on top of the duvet. There is an ATM rerciept from October on the floor near the bra. I think these could have both been on the desk at the time the door was violently kicked open and went flying into the room from the air vortex that would have been created.
 
halides1 said:
Lothian,

My list of wrongfully convicted individuals was an appropriate answer to anyone who trusts that courts get it right 100% of the time (one sees this surprisingly frequently at JREF).* Despite comment #1013 (which could be taken that way), you have made it clear that you do not subscribe to this view. I trust that you understand the difference between being found guilty in the first trial and being found guilty in the second trial and at the supreme court, if such events come to pass. I am glad that we are on the same page, but your false assumptions about me in comment #1026 took me some effort to correct. I did not deal with all of them in detail, nor do I intend to spend any more time doing so or swatting away condescending references to Coco the clown.
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So you mistakenly assumed I thought all court decisions were 100% right and I mistakenly assumed you thought Amanda was 100% innocent. I guess we all live and learn.

LondonJohn said:
No, no! Lothian got it all correct, and was arguing entirely in good faith! It was all my fault for being an aggressive attack dog and also for misinterpreting your position!
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Ah, you see what London John is doing here is trying to be witty and "cool"

You are free to point out any errors. So far we have transferring Supernaut's opinion to Halides.

Sad really.
 
Draca said:
LJ,

I believe the book was on her bed. With the position of the tote bag on the floor by the window it is likely that she came home, took the book and other items she needed out of the bag and hung the tote bag on the back of the desk chair. The tote bag was probably knocked onto the floor during the struggle by the desk where the chair was shoved into the desk ripping the paper under one of the chair legs.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_401664e38a33ba5178.jpg[/qimg]
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Isn't it more likely that the killer (i.e. Guede) tipped these items - including the book - out of her bag onto the bed as he was searching for the keys he needed and items of value after the murder? For me, the most persuasive argument for this scenario is that the items are lying on the mattress. Had Meredith removed the items on arriving home, the duvet would have been lying in its normal position on top of the mattress, and the items would have been placed onto the duvet. Of course the items could originally have been lying on top of the duvet, but were tipped onto the mattress when the killer (Guede) pulled the duvet off the bed to cover Meredith. But I still favour the theory that the items were tipped out of the bag by the killer.

I think that the sequence of events probably went like this: Guede killed and molested Meredith; he then cleaned the blood off himself and his clothing in the small bathroom (leaving the dilute blood partial print on the bathmat in the process); he then returned to Meredith's room; he covered Meredith's body by pulling the duvet off her bed and placing it over her on the floor; he then tipped her tote bag's contents out onto the now-exposed mattress in his search for money, cards and the keys that he needed to get out of the friont door; he exited Meredith's room again, stepping into some of the pooling blood as he walked from the bed to the bedroom door; he locked the bedroom door behind him, using the keys that he'd just found, and walked down the hallway to the front door - leaving a faint trail of bloody shoeprints as he did so; finally, he unlocked the front door and left the cottage, neglecting to lock the door behind him.
 
Lothian said:
So you mistakenly assumed I thought all court decisions were 100% right and I mistakenly assumed you thought Amanda was 100% innocent. I guess we all live and learn.

Ah, you see what London John is doing here is trying to be witty and "cool"

You are free to point out any errors. So far we have transferring Supernaut's opinion to Halides.

Sad really.
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You know, Lothian, it would be awfully nice if you were to start discussing the actual evidence rather than perpetuating this sterile discussion of inference and innuendo.

How do you think Knox and Sollecito managed to leave a murdered corpse who still had all her pizza dinner in her stomach and none in her duodenum?

Rolfe.
 
Dan O. said:
With the book and other articles on the bed, it appears that the Duvet was therefore not on the bed when Meredith came home.
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I find this very hard to believe. Even the most slovenly people generally leave their duvet covering most of their bed during the day, and I suspect that Meredith would most likely have been neat enough to straighten up her duvet every morning. Furthermore, since Meredith was still fully-clothed (including her light jacket and her footwear) when she was killed, it's highly unlikely that she would have pulled back her duvet if she was lying on her bed at any time: nearly everyone who lies on their bed when fully-clothed (especially when wearing shoes) lies on top of the bedding.

As I've outlined above, I believe that the items were tipped onto the exposed mattress once the duvet had been removed. And since I think that logically the only person who would have removed the duvet was the killer, I therefore believe that it was the killer who tipped these items out of Meredith's bag. And it's an entirely logical thing for the killer to have done - since he would have been searching for keys and money/cards etc, and Meredith's bag would have been the obvious first place to look for such items.
 
Draca said:
Just for fun.... Who is pilot padron talking about?

1. London John
2.
3. Kevin Lowe
4.
5. Mark Waterbury
6. Rolfe
7. Bruce Fisher


Who are the others?

Btw Pilot, Mark Waterbury hasn't posted in the - 58,345+ posts - so how did they confirm it here?
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I am number 4!

(This feels like an episode of "The Prisoner" :D)

ETA: I mentioned a while back on JREF that my undergraduate degree was in communications engineering. Dear old Pilot has stored this invaluable information away in his memory bank, and now brings it out at every opportunity when discussing me (which he does with surprising regularity, both here and - far more nastily - elsewhere). He also seems to think it's some sort of insult - I can't for the life of me understand why that should be. Especially when one pauses to consider Pilot's own education path.......
 
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