Reasonable doubt...All truthers(and whoever esle) please read

[Edx]

*sigh* The pictures speak for themselves. Leslie robertson said he saw Molten steel. Don't say he took it back (I know he did) but this is such a big issue, don't you think he would have pushed for a retraction.

Abolhassan Astaneh: Professor of civil engineering at the University of California at Berkeley and was one of the leading structural engineers who studied the collapse of the World Trade Center on 9/11 said:
"I saw melting of girders in World Trade Center." These aren't just no body's.

Again, reports of molten steel occur in plenty of other fires in exactly the same way as you can find on 911.

How many times do you need to be told the same thing?

Troopers Identify Fourth Victim In Fishing Boat Fire
Anchorage Daily News - Sep 15, 1982

Troopers said they have recovered remains of at least seven bodies from the fishing vessel Investor, which burned Sept. 7. The body of 4-year-old John Coulthurst was not found, but trooper spokesman Paul Edscorn said investigators believe the intense heat of the fire completely destroyed any remains.

"We're talking about a fire that MELTED STEEL," Edscorn said.

4 DIE IN HIGH-RISE FIRE
Chicago Sun-Times - January 18, 1996

What apparently drove residents to risk life and limb was dense, acrid smoke that filled the building and flames "so hot they MELTED STEEL," Fire Commissioner Raymond Orozco said.


Worker Injured When Fire Erupts At Paint Warehouse
Ocala Star-Banner - May 28, 1987

Fire broke out at a paint warehouse on the city's north side Wednesday night, injuring one worker and turning the building into a pile of MELTED STEEL GIRDERS, authorities said.

 

[uke2se]

*sigh* The pictures speak for themselves. Leslie robertson said he saw Molten steel. Don't say he took it back (I know he did) but this is such a big issue, don't you think he would have pushed for a retraction.

Abolhassan Astaneh: Professor of civil engineering at the University of California at Berkeley and was one of the leading structural engineers who studied the collapse of the World Trade Center on 9/11 said:
"I saw melting of girders in World Trade Center." These aren't just no body's.

So? You have been shown multiple reports of "molten steel" in other fires before and after 9/11. Why do you think those reports are remarkable for 9/11 but not for other fires? Or, do you think those other fires were thermite conspiracies as well?

 

[tmd2_1]

Again, reports of molten steel occur in plenty of other fires in exactly the same way as you can find on 911.

How many times do you need to be told the same thing?

So? You have been shown multiple reports of "molten steel" in other fires before and after 9/11. Why do you think those reports are remarkable for 9/11 but not for other fires? Or, do you think those other fires were thermite conspiracies as well?

I have been shown no reports with anyone near the qualifications of the people I mentioned said they saw molten steel

 

[TJM]

How many times do I have to say it?

Pro tip: I'd stop saying it because nobody is buying it.

It's all in the initial post.

Which has been proven hopelessly wrong, though that hasn't stopped you.

There's clear video of what appears to be molten steel.

Really? Where?

Witnesses saying there is molten steel,

What process did they use to determine it was, in fact, molten steel?

and John Gross lying or being grossly negligent,

Ah, the only guy in the bunch who'd know WTF he's talking about is a liar.

I won't address this again.

Oh, yes you will.

 

[Edx]

I have been shown no reports with anyone near the qualifications of the people I mentioned said they saw molten steel

Please read whats given to you, the second quote is attributed to a Fire Commissioner Raymond Orozco.

 

[Sceptic-PK]

What I have is an argument that has common sense. Even if we believe it some how was one of those lucky pieces that shot out of the plane, it went so far, so the rubble would not destroy it? That doesn't seem a bit hard to take?

Wikipedia: conspiracy theory guide

Appeals to 'common sense';

Common sense steps substitute for the more robust, academically respectable methodologies available for investigating sociological and scientific phenomena.

 

[uke2se]

I have been shown no reports with anyone near the qualifications of the people I mentioned said they saw molten steel

List the qualifications a person must have to report molten steel and be believed by you.

 

[dafydd]

You continue to lie and deny. You asked me to pick Molten steel out of 4 pictures. I did correctly. I asked you how I did on that little test. You say what test? But I guess that never happened.

Because I rather stupidly labeled the photos.

 

[tmd2_1]

List the qualifications a person must have to report molten steel and be believed by you.

Certainly more then what I read in those other posts. Look here are two videos, clearly showing molten steel. Save the Richard Gage crap...those pictures speak for themselves. In the second video at the end they actually have Leslie Robertson on video saying there is molten steel. It had to be obtained through a FOIA request. I wonder why it was so difficult.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqJSDn5dgJc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF4C6qtU_Fc

 

[beachnut]

*...
Abolhassan Astaneh: Professor of civil engineering at the University of California at Berkeley and was one of the leading structural engineers who studied the collapse of the World Trade Center on 9/11 said:
"I saw melting of girders in World Trade Center." These aren't just no body's.

Astaneh thinks your claims of an inside job are insane. Good job, quote-mining someone who thinks your claims are nonsense. You debunk yourself.

... they actually have Leslie Robertson on video saying there is molten steel. ...

Robertson think your claims are nonsense and he does not remember saying the melted steel, and agrees there was no melted steel. He is alive, ask him, he says your stuff is nonsense. You debunked yourself again.

You quote-mined two people who say your claims are nonsense. Not a good idea, not logical.

 

[tmd2_1]

Astaneh thinks your claims of an inside job are insane. Good job, quote-mining someone who thinks your claims are nonsense. You debunk yourself.

I'm 100% convinced "quote-mining" is an automatic response for most of you. One guy accused me of it when all I said was look at page 102

 

[tmd2_1]

Astaneh thinks your claims of an inside job are insane. Good job, quote-mining someone who thinks your claims are nonsense. You debunk yourself.



Robertson think your claims are nonsense and he does not remember saying the melted steel, and agrees there was no melted steel. He is alive, ask him, he says your stuff is nonsense. You debunked yourself again.

You quote-mined two people who say your claims are nonsense. Not a good idea, not logical.

See above post Robertson on video saying Molten steel

 

[dafydd]

Why repeat myself?

Why break a habit? Truthers have been parroting the same garbage for years. Boring. Got anything new that will win you a Pulitzer prize? Come on,astonish us and the world and bring the real criminals to justice. I can just see them cowering in the dock in front of you.

 

[TJM]

Because I rather stupidly labeled the photos.

Gah! Is that what he's on about?

Hey tmd, my phone number is comprised of a certain number of digits. Guess how many. <---is not a clue.

 

[dafydd]

Certainly more then what I read in those other posts. Look here are two videos, clearly showing molten steel. Save the Richard Gage crap...those pictures speak for themselves. In the second video at the end they actually have Leslie Robertson on video saying there is molten steel. It had to be obtained through a FOIA request. I wonder why it was so difficult.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqJSDn5dgJc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF4C6qtU_Fc

Well,if somebody says it on youtube it must be true. Bugger research,who needs it?

 

[beachnut]

I'm 100% convinced "quote-mining" is an automatic response for most of you. One guy accused me of it when all I said was look at page 102

You have no evidence to support your claims, which are delusions. The best you can do is quote-mine, and you have no clue you do it.

Robertson did say melted steel in a presentation, but he says he did not say it. He made a mistake, and you quote-mine his mistake. Big error, you like to find things to support your delusions on 911. There was no melted steel, zero photos, zero samples. Where is your evidence.

All your claims are evidence free. You thinks 175 was still airborne after it crashed, you claim terrorists who died on 911 are still alive. You have delusions.


After that briefing where Robertson said melted steel, he says there was no melted steel. Bet he looked up the melting point, something you don't need to know to use A36 to building the towers. You have never made a mistake? Why do you quote-mine something the person who said it disagrees and says there was no melted steel? Why do you mislead?

 

[grandmastershek]

*sigh* The pictures speak for themselves.

Wrong.

With respect to steel, looks can be deceiving. What appears to be melted may be merely oxidized. Interpret melted metals, particularly steel, with caution, and interpret the temperatures you infer from these melted metals with extreme caution. High temperatures are more likely a result of increased ventilation than of the presence of ignitable liquid residues.

A more important fallacy relied upon by fire investigators is their belief that they can determine visually if a piece of steel has melted or not. Recent studies in our laboratory indicate that it is not possible by visual examination alone whether a piece of steel has melted or merely oxidized.

Leslie robertson said he saw Molten steel. Don't say he took it back (I know he did) but this is such a big issue, don't you think he would have pushed for a retraction.

And? Is an engineer supposed to be able to chemically analyze molten metal by eye sight?

Abolhassan Astaneh...said:
"I saw melting of girders in World Trade Center." These aren't just no body's.

Astenah-Asl also said he saw evidence of core columns buckling due to fire & supports fire induced collapse, but has never endorsed CD or inside jobby-job of any shape or color. But I bet you choose to ignore all that.

 

[dafydd]

You have no evidence to support your claims, which are delusions. The best you can do is quote-mine, and you have no clue you do it.

Robertson did say melted steel in a presentation, but he says he did not say it. He made a mistake, and you quote-mine his mistake. Big error, you like to find things to support your delusions on 911. There was no melted steel, zero photos, zero samples. Where is your evidence.

All your claims are evidence free. You thinks 175 was still airborne after it crashed, you claim terrorists who died on 911 are still alive. You have delusions.

Many truthers have these delusions. What could the source be?

 

[uke2se]

Certainly more then what I read in those other posts. Look here are two videos, clearly showing molten steel.

So a Fire Commissioner isn't good enough?

Save the Richard Gage crap...those pictures speak for themselves.

No, they don't.

In the second video at the end they actually have Leslie Robertson on video saying there is molten steel. It had to be obtained through a FOIA request. I wonder why it was so difficult.

Possibly because it isn't molten steel.

 

[tmd2_1]

Wrong.

With respect to steel, looks can be deceiving. What appears to be melted may be merely oxidized. Interpret melted metals, particularly steel, with caution, and interpret the temperatures you infer from these melted metals with extreme caution. High temperatures are more likely a result of increased ventilation than of the presence of ignitable liquid residues.

A more important fallacy relied upon by fire investigators is their belief that they can determine visually if a piece of steel has melted or not. Recent studies in our laboratory indicate that it is not possible by visual examination alone whether a piece of steel has melted or merely oxidized.



We know, truthers only want to believe what confirms their beliefs. The fact is that Leslie Robertson himself said he does not remember saying that. He never took it back. So right off the bat you are misrepresenting facts...not shocked. The "truth" is that its mis-sourced from an article by James William, who never actually attributes the statement to Robertson or any source. The fact is that his notes only show Robertson mentioning molten metal.



Astenah-Asl also said he saw evidence of core columns buckling due to fire & supports fire induced collapse, but has never endorsed CD or inside jobby-job of any shape or color. But I bet you choose to ignore all that.

Dude...right here Leslie Robertson saying he was molten steel. It had to be obtained through a FOIA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF4C6qtU_Fc