God without The Bible – Challenge to Theists

bikerdruid said:
that fact that st patrick burned over 1200 hundred books in 5th century ireland (from his confessionsmight account for the lack of pre-christin irish literature.
and, btw....druidry existed in ireland long after the slaughter at mon, hundreds of years longer.
infact, in ireland, the druids became the culdees.
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All very debased no doubt. We still know nothing about the real Celtic druids,
 
bikerdruid said:
there are many, but there are some excellent compilations.
john matthew's: the bardic sourcebook; the seer's sourcebook and the druidic sourcebook.
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I checked it out. New Age woo. Athurian guff. The only things worth reading in it are the poems,which were written long after the druids ceased to exist. The poets knew as much about the druids as we do. Not very much. Nothing to to with what the ancients Celts really were.
 
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dafydd said:
Less than one.
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That's sad on two counts.

1. We have no information about the druids, which is self-evidently sad, since no information is never a great thing.

2. Those people who say they are continuing the traditions of the ancient druids are deluding themselves, which is also self-evidently sad, since self-delusion is never a good thing.
 
Bram Kaandorp said:
That's sad on two counts.

1. We have no information about the druids, which is self-evidently sad, since no information is never a great thing.

2. Those people who say they are continuing the traditions of the ancient druids are deluding themselves, which is also self-evidently sad, since self-delusion is never a good thing.
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True. I have have played in Irish folk bands and have been at many a Celtic festival and fair in Belgium and the Nederlands over the past thirty years. Sometimes there would be neo druids doing some kind of a ceremony. It was all made up,just a dressing up club really. The only authentic thing I ever saw was a guy brewing mead and a blacksmith who made a dagger using one of those iron age bellows that go under the ground.
 
dafydd said:
True. I have have played in Irish folk bands and have been at many a Celtic festival and fair in Belgium and the Nederlands over the past thirty years. Sometimes there would be neo druids doing some kind of a ceremony. It was all made up,just a dressing up club really. The only authentic thing I ever saw was a guy brewing mead and a blacksmith who made a dagger using one of those iron age bellows that go under the ground.
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I would really like to see them moving their frame of reference a few centuries. At least then they would have some real texts to work from.
 
Bram Kaandorp said:
I would really like to see them moving their frame of reference a few centuries. At least then they would have some real texts to work from.
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The real Celts left no written records. That is their problem,they have to make most of it up.
 
Bram Kaandorp said:
I would really like to see them moving their frame of reference a few centuries. At least then they would have some real texts to work from.
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One of the funniest ones that I ever attended was a few years ago when Braveheart was all the rage. They had a Scottish afternoon and all these Mel Gibson lookalikes turned up who had learned their Scottish history from the movie. One guy was a little upset,he told me that he had named his daughter Murron,after Wallace's wife because it was such a beautiful Celtic name. I had to tell him that the name was a Hollywood invention and that Wallace's wife was called Marion. I told him it was still a nice name. I thought that movie was a comedy. The real William Wallace never met Princess Isabella,just to give one example.
 
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dafydd said:
The real Celts left no written records. That is their problem,they have to make most of it up.
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So "a fem millennia" would be more appropriate.

I understand the allure, just like I can understand the allure of medieval re-enactment (not the Castlefest romanticism, but the full package).

But in the case of those druids, they were merely attracted by the idea of "pre-Christian religion" and "no dogmas".
 
dafydd said:
One of the funniest ones that I ever attended was a few years ago when Braveheart was all the rage. They had a Scottish afternoon and all these Mel Gibson lookalikes turned up who had learned their Scottish history from the movie. One guy was a little upset,he told me that he had named his daughter Murron,after Wallace's wife because it was such a beautiful Celtic name. I had to tell him that the name was a Hollywood invention and that Wallace's wife was called Marion. I told him it was still a nice name. I thought that movie was a comedy. The real William Wallace never met Princess Isabella,just to give one example.
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That was a little... embarrassing.
 
Bram Kaandorp said:
So "a fem millennia" would be more appropriate.

I understand the allure, just like I can understand the allure of medieval re-enactment (not the Castlefest romanticism, but the full package).

But in the case of those druids, they were merely attracted by the idea of "pre-Christian religion" and "no dogmas".
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How do they know that the real druids had no dogmas? Rhetorical question. They had two wheeled karmas which used to run over their dogmas.
 
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Bram Kaandorp said:
That's sad on two counts.

1. We have no information about the druids, which is self-evidently sad, since no information is never a great thing.

2. Those people who say they are continuing the traditions of the ancient druids are deluding themselves, which is also self-evidently sad, since self-delusion is never a good thing.
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you folks love to leap to conclusions.
i know no modern druids that claim to be continuing the traditions of the ancient druids.
modern druidism is firmly rooted ibn the druid revival of the late 18th century.
my order traces it roots to that time.
the fact that we can gain insights into the role and practise of ancient druids in the literature remains.

but, obviously dafydd knows everything about druids ancient and modern, so i will let him continue to expound.
 
bikerdruid said:
you folks love to leap to conclusions.
i know no modern druids that claim to be continuing the traditions of the ancient druids.
modern druidism is firmly rooted ibn the druid revival of the late 18th century.
my order traces it roots to that time.the fact that we can gain insights into the role and practise of ancient druids in the literature remains.

but, obviously dafydd knows everything about druids ancient and modern, so i will let him continue to expound.
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That explains it! You belong to a dressing up club too. Do you believe in all the old Celtic gods. Cernunnos,for example? Or the fertility goddess Epona?
 
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dafydd said:
That explains it! You belong to a dressing up club too. Do you believe in all the old Celtic gods. Cernunnos,for example? Or the fertility goddess Epona?
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i'm done here.
i have no interest in discussing my beliefs or practices to be flayed for them.
while the discussion was civilized, it was cool.

i am the first to admit that personal religious beliefs and practices are not logic based.
but, such is the nature of religion.
i have already stated my uncertainty about the nature of god/gods.
 
bikerdruid said:
i'm done here.
i have no interest in discussing my beliefs or practices to be flayed for them.
while the discussion was civilized, it was cool.

i am the first to admit that personal religious beliefs and practices are not logic based.
but, such is the nature of religion.
i have already stated my uncertainty about the nature of god/gods.
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I'm sorry. I apologize. We'll leave it there,if you like.
 
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fair enough.
actually, i identify quite strongly with the 'greenman', the spirit of nature.
and on our farm, we honour 'epona' in her aspect as goddess of horses.
(we raise horses on our farm)

in all honesty, we do this, not so much due to a fervent belief in their actual existence, but because it pleases us to do so.
 
bikerdruid said:
fair enough.
actually, i identify quite strongly with the 'greenman', the spirit of nature.
and on our farm, we honour 'epona' in her aspect as goddess of horses.
(we raise horses on our farm)

in all honesty, we do this, not so much due to a fervent belief in their actual existence, but because it pleases us to do so.
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No offence,but I just don't see the need for believing in a spirit of nature. It seems a superfluous idea to me. Your farm would get along just the same without it.
 
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