UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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Ufology - Did your girlfriend smoke?

It was 1974. A couple of teenagers spending the night at Daddy's ranch in the mountains, some Zep on the Hi Fi Stereo and one of them takes a drag on a "cigarette"... (I can't believe there's no Buddah)... The other says "Wow! Did you see that?"
"What?"
"I just saw a bright light come up over that mountain and land down near the lake..."
"huh? Where?" She leans forward on the couch and shifts sideways to match his eye-line lifting the lit cigarette...
"Did you see that!!??!!"
"wow, yeah. It went like a figure eight..."

etc..
 
Exactly what proof they would need has not been made clear.
Maybe you didn't get the alert emails telling you when people were explaining this to you?

The proof required is aliens and/or flying saucers. That's not stories about aliens and/or flying saucers but actual aliens and/or flying saucers.
That would constitute 'proof' I think.

Of course there would also be less definitive evidence that would certainly raise 'OMG! Aliens' up the ladder of possible explanations for sightings without constituting 'proof'... Things like a ray gun, a genuine implant, a bit of twisted metal that when bent straightens itself out (along with associated hieroglyphs).

What doesn't 'cut it' is putting the 'Flying Purple People Eater' on the record player and telling stories about points of light against a black sky along with the insistance that you've methodically ruled everything else out to explain it... apart from Aliens.

If you have time, perhaps you could link to a similar methodology where someone has successfully used the process of elimination alone to prove their theory as opposed to actually finding positive evidence that their theory is correct... And I mean in the real world, Sherlock Holmes doesn't count. :)
 
Maybe you didn't get the alert emails telling you when people were explaining this to you?

The proof required is aliens and/or flying saucers. That's not stories about aliens and/or flying saucers but actual aliens and/or flying saucers.
That would constitute 'proof' I think.


The only proof that will satisfy the crowd here is for them all to have a personal experience together at the same time. Any individual would just end up in the same boat I'm in. News reports and science reports and videos and books and everything else is anecdotal or after the fact and would be deemed irrellevant. Even a real flying saucer wouldn't prove anything other than that we have some flying machine that maybe we built ourselves. Aliens can be be hoaxed with makeup and prosthetics, so even if one were to land in a UFO on TV, it still wouldn't prove anything. Like I've said before, short of opening up an alien travel agency that provides mother ship cruises, there will always be people who believe that intelligently controlled objects of alien origin have never been to Earth.

Obviously I'm not one of those who don't believe. The diffference between me and the non-belivers is that their is always a chance the non-believers will have an experience of their own that will change their view. For me it's too late. There is nothing that can be undone to make me unbelieve what I know and I'm not going to start dismissing and ridiculing the experiences of others just to fit in here.

j.r.
 
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If anyone wants questions answered that haven't been answered with respect to my personal sighting, then I'd be happy to answer them. As for the incorrect assessment that my story is as full of holes as "swiss cheese", I only made one minor memory error in the haste of a forum response.
You need to check your numeracy abilities as well as your recall.

One minor error? I catalogued a whole bunch of 'em.

The fact that you ignored all of my posts (despite a number of posters reminding you that you hadn't addressed them) so that you can maintain the pretence that your recall of the incident is perfect has been plain to all of the posters her.
...you avoiding addressing the huge discrepancies in your estimates.

Last asked (and ignored) in post 281, which reminded you of your lack of response to posts 265 and 268.
So, not "one minor error". Your pretence otherwise is blatantly obvious to the rest of the posters (and lurkers) here.
If anything, minor discrepancies tend to show truthfulness under pressure because they haven't been rehearsed over and over again to prepare to deveive people.
No. What happened is you attempted to embellish your story in order to add weight to your argument, and in doing so completely and consistently contradicted your self repeadetly.
Please be fair minded and I'll be happy to continue discussing my sighting. Otherwise it's time to move on.
Please have the integrity to address the posts on the subject, rather than pretending they don't exist.
 
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You need to check your numeracy abilities as well as your recall.

One minor error? I catalogued a whole bunch of 'em.

The fact that you ignored all of my posts (despite a number of posters reminding you that you hadn't addressed them) so that you can maintain the pretence that your recall of the incident is perfect has been plain to all of the posters her.
So, not "one minor error". Your pretence otherwise is blatantly obvious to the rest of the posters (and lurkers) here.
No. What happened is you attempted to embellish your story in order to add weight to your argument, and in doing so completely and consistently contradicted your self repeadetly.Please have the integrity to address the posts on the subject, rather than pretending they don't exist.


I've embellished nothing. I answered the forum question in good fiath and answered individual questions as well as I could on the fly in the setting of an informal forum discussion. In response, I've received little else other than attacks and criticism. If anyone has embellished anything it's the people who have blown minor details out of proportion and context to justify writing off my entire experience.

j.r.
 
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The only proof that will satisfy the crowd here is for them all to have a personal experience together at the same time.
What makes you think "the crowd" here haven't at some point seen something they couldn't immediately identify, either alone or in company? Many have actually related such experiences.

Giving more credence to personal experiences than to objective evidence gathered using the scientific method is what woo believers and pseudoscientists do. The fact that you wrongly assume that the sceptics here would do the same proves that you have learned nothing whatever in your time here.
 
I've embellished nothing. I answered the forum question in good fiath and answered individual questions as well as I could on the fly in the setting of an informal forum discussion.
Not quite accurate. You also insist that you cross-referenced your website recollection and that your posts here accurately reflected its portrayal of the incident. You also said you would address any criticisms - you've yet to respond to ANY of my posts on the contradictions in your recollections.
In response, I've received little else other than attacks and criticism. If anyone has embellished anything it's the people who have blown minor details out of proportion and context to justify writing off my entire experience.
Ah, so is it minor details or just "one minor error"?

As I said, your story changes from post to post.
 
The only proof that will satisfy the crowd here is for them all to have a personal experience together at the same time.
No, "an experience" (like the one's you have documented) as most people here will agree, is not proof of anything other an experience.

Any individual would just end up in the same boat I'm in.
More details being added?... So now you're claiming you were in a boat? :D

News reports and science reports and videos and books and everything else is anecdotal or after the fact and would be deemed irrellevant.
No... Verification is the key. An accurate news report or science book that claimed to actually have an alien or flying saucer would be verifiable.

Even a real flying saucer wouldn't prove anything other than that we have some flying machine that maybe we built ourselves.
Not if it was alien in origin. Afterall it could accelerate to vast speeds from a dead stop to cover 25km in a few seconds without making a sonic boom, be fitted with an anti-gravity propulsion system and perform perfect figure 8's without a sound... We have a good grasp of the limits of our knowledge, so something that is beyond those limits (breaking laws we rely on to make other scientific predictions) would be 'proof' enough for science.

Aliens can be be hoaxed with makeup and prosthetics,
Which is why I specifically said "actual aliens and flying saucers"
You can not hoax an actual alien or flying saucer.

so even if one were to land in a UFO on TV, it still wouldn't prove anything.
Unless it really was an actual alien in an actual flying saucer.

Like I've said before, short of opening up an alien travel agency that provides mother ship cruises, there will always be people who believe that intelligently controlled objects of alien origin have never been to Earth.
And until someone opens a travel agency offering sleigh rides with Santa Claus, there will also be people who don't believe a fat man in a red suit flies through the air on Christmas eve in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer.
People are just so unreasonable aren't they?

Obviously I'm not one of those who don't believe. The diffference between me and the non-belivers is that their is always a chance the non-believers will have an experience of their own that will change their view.
Again you are wrong. There are stories littered through this forum of members here who have seen UFOs. I myself started off as a believer many years ago. What changed my mind was entirely the evidence (or lack of) in which case, all you're left with is 'blind belief' in which case you may as well have the same belief in GeeMack's God who puts memories in your brain to make you look silly on the internet years later, or Santa Claus, or Fairies, Pegasus, Pink Unicorns, Dragons, PushmePullYous etc.
For me it's too late. There is nothing that can be undone to make me unbelieve what I know
And we are usually the ones accused of being closed minded?
This is the nubb of people's problem with you ufology, it's arrogance like this and steadfast refusal to even consider seriously, that what you think you "know" may be wrong.

and I'm not going to start dismissing and ridiculing the experiences of others just to fit in here.
It's not about "fitting in" there is no peer pressure to be one of the gang.
The fact is that as most people around here are critical thinkers, we all tend to think along the same lines as a result of that thought process (because critical thinking follows strict rules which when adhered to, reduce the possibility of wildly differing opinions and errors whilst leaving an open door for new compelling evidence to change our minds).
The ridicule is in response to the ridiculousness of your arguments, not your experiences.
 
I've embellished nothing. I answered the forum question in good fiath and answered individual questions as well as I could on the fly in the setting of an informal forum discussion. In response, I've received little else other than attacks and criticism. If anyone has embellished anything it's the people who have blown minor details out of proportion and context to justify writing off my entire experience.

j.r.
Things like being able to accurately judge speed, size and distance are not minor details. They are key to being able to assess what it was you saw. The fact is, you did not know the object's characteristics. You think you did, because you made assumptions based on your observations at the time, but these assumptions weren't necessarily correct.

For example:
The object did repeated precise manuevers ( several figure 8s ) in the same place on two occasisions and when it departed, it instantly covered over 25 Km from a dead stop in about 1 second.

You don't know this! That's your interpretation! Do you understand the dif-fe-rence??!!

You've also demonstrated that your estimation of the distance and height was way out, as EHocking, in his patience and kindness, pointed out to you in post #268

But then you told us that you weren't measuring it from the lake, but from "a spot above the lake". You still haven't explained what you meant by this, but then I guess that's because it's just "a minor detail".... :rolleyes:

ETA (in case you think I'm being a bit harsh, because I'm a girl and should really be baking cakes) I don't write off your entire experience, I just think that it's no proof of aliens.
 
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The object did repeated precise manuevers ( several figure 8s ) in the same place on two occasisions and when it departed, it instantly covered over 25 Km from a dead stop in about 1 second. <snip>

Assuming you accurately judged the distance and time, and assuming a constant rate of acceleration, it would have to be 50 km/s2 through the thick soup that is our atmosphere. Did you hear a sonic boom? Was a there a big trail of superheated air glowing for a while after this maneuver?
 
Turgor, this question has been answered to everyone's satisfaction, I think....:D

You must read the technical specs in the article to get the full appreciation of the graphics.
Blast off!!

Spread.jpg


What happened to that rule I used to have about not doing requests? :boggled:

:D
 
The object did repeated precise manuevers ( several figure 8s ) in the same place on two occasisions and when it departed, it instantly covered over 25 Km from a dead stop in about 1 second. The etreme fast precision maneuvers in the same place on two occasions indicate some kind of flight control system and that implies some kind of intelligence as opposed to a random earthlight or ball lightning phenomenon. Nothing natural or manmade with a flight control system can go from a dead stop to cover over 25 Km in 1 second. So if it wasn't anything manmade or natural that we know of, it had to be alien ( to us ). Where it came from or what it was exactly, I don't know. My best guess is it was some kind of automated probe.


Your best guess is nonsense. "If it wasn't anything man made or natural that we know of" is nonsense, too, as is your jumping to the ridiculous conclusion that it had to be aliens. It could have been gods putting a vision in your head so years later you'd trounce around the Internet entertaining people with your nonsense story and providing a perfect example of not critically thinking.

There is no reason at all to accept your perception of the event. The human ability to perceive is not as good as you claim yours to be. Add to that your description changes each time you tell the tale, which indicates it's being made up on the fly for the purpose of covering every discrepancy people bring up along the way. That is simply not an honest approach. It's story telling, like someone's grandpa telling about the time the pond froze so fast the ducks' feet got frozen in and they all flew away carrying the frozen pond with them. It's nonsense.

The rest of skeptics here have just resorted to ridicule and/or personal attacks. As irksome as GeeMack may be, [...]


And you're still wrong. You are not being persecuted. Your story stinks. It's ridiculous. Your arguments are flawed, pretty much every one of them. They, the arguments, have earned the ridicule they are receiving. And as irksome as you may think I am, I have gone through great effort, cooperatively, patiently, and helpfully, to show you how you are simply wrong the many times you've claimed...

[...] I've systematically ruled out everything known to man that could be responsible for what I saw, [...]

You're finally willing to admit that there are indeed many things known to man that could be responsible for what you believe you saw...

[...] technically, you can't rule out that the whole story is fabricated, or that the stimulus was induced by some shared mental and/or perceptual abberation.


Now stay on it. Learn it. Understand it. That's what critical thinking is about.
 
Ah i see.. I really shouldn't have skipped a few pages, this was the first time i saw the claim that something travelled 25 km in a second.

But I am left wondering if ufology understands that his interpretation of what he saw raises many unnecessary complications that need to be adressed, something which an explanation as simple as a reflection or a firefly does not suffer from.
 
William of Ockham has hitched a ride on the first Gay Rodeo blimp out of town.
 
Ah i see.. I really shouldn't have skipped a few pages, this was the first time i saw the claim that something travelled 25 km in a second.

But I am left wondering if ufology understands that his interpretation of what he saw raises many unnecessary complications that need to be adressed, something which an explanation as simple as a reflection or a firefly does not suffer from.
He believes that UFOs are powered by anit-gravity propulsion units and cites a NASA expert to support this.

Here, he then speculates that an anti-gravity drive wouldn't create a shock wave, or a plazma trail from the UFO wouldn ionise the air, thus counteracting the generation of a sonic boom.
 
Gaaaawd, everyone's a critic. :D

Flying-Saucer-Tech-Drawing.jpg
WHAT? ! !

Talk about embellishing to add authority to your sighting...

Look at the comparisons between the original witness sketch and the professional one.


26614e32a765d16a9.jpg


I mean the legs are at different angles and the landing pads are different colours FFS!!!

You debunkers will try any lies to discredit the science of UFOlogy.:mad:
 
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