Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[twinstead]

Regardless of what you think of Jones, this data is from the EPA, whom they had to file a FOIA request just to get it.

But it is nice to hear that the lead NIST investigator could lie right to your face, the man who's suppose to be responsible for supplying these facts and evidence, and you wouldn't have a problem with it.

What I have a problem with is irrational ideologues spewing spittle on relatively obscure internet forums trying to shove their beliefs down my throat.

But that's just me.

 

[Sabretooth]

Regardless of what you think of Jones, this data is from the EPA, whom they had to file a FOIA request just to get it.

But it is nice to hear that the lead NIST investigator could lie right to your face, the man who's suppose to be responsible for supplying these facts and evidence, and you wouldn't have a problem with it.

Mind putting your google-fu skills to works and tell us HTF this has anything to do with your "molten steel/Gross lied/blahblah" fits in with the WTC intentionally rigged for demolition by the NWO*?

You're blathering on about nonsense and you still haven't produced a single fact that backs up WTF your talking about. All you're doing is shifting gears and moving goalposts...just like every other freakin' truther that passes through here.


(*or any other Tom Clancy super sekrit organization)

 

[TJM]

But it is nice to hear that the lead NIST investigator could lie right to your face, the man who's suppose to be responsible for supplying these facts and evidence, and you wouldn't have a problem with it.

What exactly do you believe Mr. Gross was lying about, and how do you feel about the outright lies the men "just asking questions" tried to get Mr. Gross to buy? "pools of molten steel", "there's videos of it", WTC 7 "fell in 6.6 seconds" - you know; those lies.

 

[DGM]

Let me address whether he was lying or not by giving this example. If I were to say the Earth is the biggest planet in the solar system. And someone were to say...what did he (meaning myself) say in regards to the size of the earth. Then the reply given is he (meaning me) didn't say anything about it. That is a lie. If the reply were...he said the earth is the largest but he is wrong about that...it is not a lie..merely correcting what I said.

Note I am not saying there was not molten steel, just using this as an example. The fact he wouldn't address that there were eye witnesses is both a lie (or grossly negligent) and I would even say suspicious.

You again missed the point. He was asked if there were witnesses to "molten steel". He knows there was none so he did not lie.

This whole line of focus is pointless. How does this fit into the big picture? You are looking at a lief and trying to say it proves a forest.

 

[bill smith]

I know full well that 15,000 tonnes of liquid steel were not observed. It's absurd to even suggest it. Temperatures in the rubble pile were from combustibles burning, 1000°C is not unlikely. The rubble pile was over a significant area. If 15,000 tonnes of steel were in the basement then we wouldn't see random areas of the rubble pile at high temperatures. It would all be seen within your hypothetical, laughable basement.

Your problem is you have to believe in nonsense for some unknown reason.

Well it wouldn't be observed would it ? It was buried under the wreckage of the Tower, Not that there was so much of that. Or are you silly enough to ask me to believe what your guys would say anyway ?

Combustibles my ass. They pumped what one fireman described as 'lakes of water' in there. So much that they threatened to flood some new Jersey train stations 5 miles away through the tunnels in the bathtub. They had to stop pumping and had hardly made a a dent in cooling the .molten.steel

Next you will be telling us that there was a coal seam fire down there. Really Sunstealer. Get your act together.

 

[DGM]

Well it wouldn't be would it ? It was buried under the wreckage of the Tower, Not that there was so much of that. Or are you silly enough to ask me to believe what your guys would say anyway ?

.

I know this is a distraction to you but, the wreckage has been removed in the last 10 years and no one noticed your huge slab of iron.

 

[tsig]

Ok in the essence to save typing...I won't answer what I have answered previously about this theory. Who did it? Most likely a criminal cabal in our country as well as Israel, would my lead suspects. Please keep in mind in no way am I saying Jews, there were those involved who were certainly not Jewish. As I said the upper echelons of the Bush admin planned an operation Northwoods type operation at the pentagon. Others had something more sinister in mind. Taking advantage of war game scenarios, needed to make sure the operation at the pentagon was a success. The number of people involved would be a lot the pentagon...but a few for the more sinister plot. You could get a lot of people to sign up to help fake the taking of lives, but to actually take lives is another story. How the pentagon was done...I can't be 100% sure, there are many theories. Some have suggested a flyover, but I can't be sure. There is also Lloyde England's admission that "it was planned" What it all means I can't be sure. It would seem whatever hit the pentagon was not piloted by human to keep a plane off the ground at the same time low enough that it would not impact the roof (remember the roof collapsed later after impact) is possible...but would be very difficult even for experienced pilots. As far as the WTC is concerned...I've stated that CD is not necessary for alternative theories to be correct. I think it's most probable but not necessary. As I said pin point accuracy of where the planes would hit...charges placed where they would not be affected by impact, is one scenario that could have happened. Most likely the planes were remote controlled. How this happened again I can't be sure. The hijackers/hijackings could have been real, and then remote control took over by software put in the A/C. As far as who planted explosives in the WTC...if there were...it would most likely be Mossad agents. Again please don't mis-understand me...if they did plant explosives in the buildings, they did it because they were brain-washed into thinking something like this needed to happen for the survival of Israel...that Israel was at risk of losing their biggest and to some extent their only ally. Remote control detonation would be the most likely, the charges being placed in elevator shafts. How long did it take, whatever happened that day..was planned for years. Obviously I would suggest that security at the WTC and the Airports used...would have to be involved in some way. As to WTC 7 I already gave a suggestion as to the reason that would be given why flight 93 would have flown into it. WTC 7 could have been the command center for the whole operation...and needed to come down, along with other reasons.

Seems a bit counterintuitive to blow up your own command center.

General, we're about to attack.

Good let's start by shooting ourselves in the head.

 

[tsig]

deleted on further reading

 

[tsig]

deleted on further reading

 

[bill smith]

The attack on the three Towers was to be a spectacular to beat all spectaculars.You can see by the timing how it went.The NT to draw the attention...the delay to allow time for a huge audience to tune in, followed by the Hollywood fireball in the ST to shock, and then the nose dive into WTC7 with a truly MASSIVE final fireball to awe and sear the brains of Americans forever. As a direct result you and your lawmakers allowed the neocons to do pretty much anything they liked. You gave them a blank cheque in other words. And they spent like sailors.

The purpose was to have three buildings together on a stage with ready and waiting hovering Cameras to broadcast live to the world on 9/11 and over and over 24 hours a day for months and years to come to reinforce the terror and accept the Patriot Act, illegal invasions and the like with open arms.Which you did.

It's so obvious that it's literally transparent. Very primitive too in a lot of ways

 

[DGM]

The attack on the three Towers was to be a spectacular to beat all spectaculars.You can see by the timing how it went.The NT to draw the attention...the delay to allow time for a huge audience to tune in, followed by the Hollywood fireball in the ST to shock, and then the nose dive into WTC7 with a truly MASSIVE final fireball to awe and sear the brains of Americans forever. As a direct result you and your lawmakers allowed the neocons to do pretty much anything they liked. You gave them a blank cheque in other words. And they spent like sailors.

The purpose was to have three buildings together on a stage with ready and waiting hovering Cameras to broadcast live to the world on 9/11 and over and over 24 hours a day for months and years to come to reinforce the terror and accept the Patriot Act, illegal invasions and the like with open arms.Which you did.

It's so obvious that it's literally transparent. Very primitive too in a lot of ways

One fatal flaw. There is no way they would have allowed UA93 to be delayed.

Game over Bill.

 

[Craig4]

The attack on the three Towers was to be a spectacular to beat all spectaculars.You can see by the timing how it went.The NT to draw the attention...the delay to allow time for a huge audience to tune in, followed by the Hollywood fireball in the ST to shock, and then the nose dive into WTC7 with a truly MASSIVE final fireball to awe and sear the brains of Americans forever. As a direct result you and your lawmakers allowed the neocons to do pretty much anything they liked. You gave them a blank cheque in other words. And they spent like sailors.

The purpose was to have three buildings together on a stage with ready and waiting hovering Cameras to broadcast live to the world on 9/11 and over and over 24 hours a day for months and years to come to reinforce the terror and accept the Patriot Act, illegal invasions and the like with open arms.Which you did.

It's so obvious that it's literally transparent. Very primitive too in a lot of ways

Ah, so you'd have memos, recorded phone calls, witnesses who can provide evidence of this. Do you have any explosive residue to support and CD theory? How about evidence that the martyrdom videos were faked?

 

[BasqueArch]

Ok in the essence to save typing...I won't answer what I have answered previously about this theory. Who did it? Most likely a criminal cabal in our country as well as Israel, would my lead suspects. Please keep in mind in no way am I saying Jews, there were those involved who were certainly not Jewish. As I said the upper echelons of the Bush admin planned an operation Northwoods type operation at the pentagon. Others had something more sinister in mind. Taking advantage of war game scenarios, needed to make sure the operation at the pentagon was a success. The number of people involved would be a lot the pentagon...but a few for the more sinister plot. You could get a lot of people to sign up to help fake the taking of lives, but to actually take lives is another story. How the pentagon was done...I can't be 100% sure, there are many theories. Some have suggested a flyover, but I can't be sure. There is also Lloyde England's admission that "it was planned" What it all means I can't be sure. It would seem whatever hit the pentagon was not piloted by human to keep a plane off the ground at the same time low enough that it would not impact the roof (remember the roof collapsed later after impact) is possible...but would be very difficult even for experienced pilots. As far as the WTC is concerned...I've stated that CD is not necessary for alternative theories to be correct. I think it's most probable but not necessary. As I said pin point accuracy of where the planes would hit...charges placed where they would not be affected by impact, is one scenario that could have happened. Most likely the planes were remote controlled. How this happened again I can't be sure. The hijackers/hijackings could have been real, and then remote control took over by software put in the A/C. As far as who planted explosives in the WTC...if there were...it would most likely be Mossad agents. Again please don't mis-understand me...if they did plant explosives in the buildings, they did it because they were brain-washed into thinking something like this needed to happen for the survival of Israel...that Israel was at risk of losing their biggest and to some extent their only ally. Remote control detonation would be the most likely, the charges being placed in elevator shafts. How long did it take, whatever happened that day..was planned for years. Obviously I would suggest that security at the WTC and the Airports used...would have to be involved in some way. As to WTC 7 I already gave a suggestion as to the reason that would be given why flight 93 would have flown into it. WTC 7 could have been the command center for the whole operation...and needed to come down, along with other reasons.

I see the problem - no evidence, just wishful tortured speculation piled atop others.

"There are many theories" because there are many ways to be wrong but only one way to be right. It's easier to miss the mark than to hit it.

All the evidence confirms that 19 fanatics attacked in planes. This explains more and the evidence integrated.
It's never too late to join the rationals.

 

[twinstead]

I see the problem - no evidence, just wishful tortured speculation piled atop others.

"There are many theories" because there are many ways to be wrong but only one way to be right. It's easier to miss the mark than to hit it.

All the evidence confirms that 19 fanatics attacked in planes. This explains more and the evidence integrated.
It's never too late to join the rationals.

Yea, it never ceases to amaze me. Why would somebody wish 9-11 was an inside job SO much as to believe it with no corroborating evidence, no questions asked?

 

[BStrong]

Yea, it never ceases to amaze me. Why would somebody wish 9-11 was an inside job SO much as to believe it with no corroborating evidence, no questions asked?

Because they actually believe that the world we live in is filled with psychopaths and sociopaths under the direct orders of a hidden elite.

These types can carry out any outrage anywhere, can murder any amount of humans, bend or break the laws of physics at will with their secret undisclosed weapons, and do all this without any interference from any law enforcement or intelligence agency, U.S. or foreign.

What this construct really represents is popular fiction, not reality.

The world view of the individuals that subscribe to these theories is most simply put as disconnected from reality. As long as their theories don't take over their lives they can function, but if they tip too far into that false construct they begine to destruct, no different from any victim of delusional thought.

The profit makers are another story, but the rank and file run the gamut from misinformed to the full-on nutters.

 

[alienentity]

Hi,

This is my first post, and I will certainly try not to break any rules, if I do I apologize in advance, and will change anything that needs to be. <snip>

Dude, why are you posting in this thread? Find another one which fits the topics you want to discuss. Posting Off-Topic is breaking the rules, so stop doing it.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Wiki isn't the great authority you may hope it is. I used an example from Wiki yesterday and was careful to include a clause stating it was not to be relied upon (which one of the debunkers ignored and told me not to believe Wiki - which proves how much they read of what I say).

I don't need to add much to what Elmondohummus already provided in very thorough detail. I give wikipedia links when it's convenient and I've crosschecked the accuracy of the information with the books I have. If you don't like me using wikipedia, I have a number of books on the same topics that I can happily recommend. Some you can find as ebooks, others that you have to buy hard copies of. Ask for recommendations and I'll give.

(I've highlighted the important point in bold).

I like this because too many debunkers believe complete high-rise steel structural collapse due to fire is a common event when in fact it's never before happened.

You're blowing nothing but smoke and hot air if you think the rarity of such events as the WTC is any indication of whether a collapse can cascade into a complete failure of the entire building. That's why architects and engineers thoroughly investigate the events, and the engineering explanations behind their collapse. If the building falls there's always a reason for it, and whether you like it or not "first time in history" has absolutely no bearing on that rule. Fire has caused partial collapses, that means it will - under the right combination of circumstances - lead to complete collapse in very rare events. Those criteria came together and resulted in an event that has almost no prior occurrence. Assuming that the lack of precedent means you can ignore it is utterly incompentent

A well-known concept in the design world; in a perfect world we would anticipate every conceivable event that the building will encounter regardless of budget during it's lifetime. Building codes guide such practices. Reality is we design for the circumstances we can feasibly address and foresee but it's impossible to design for everything.

 

[tfk]

Hi Carl...

Yes I provided a link to the whole conversation here it is again. I've stated he is either lying...or grossly negligent, either one is quite bad. I find it almost impossible to believe he did not know of these eyewitnesses..since a simple search will bring them up in seconds. Proving what someone knows or doesn't know is next to impossible in less you have written or recorded evidence, of them saying the opposite. Which is why I say at the very least he is grossly negligent, at the worse(and unfortunately most likely) bold face lying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLIzSCt_cg

Sorry, tmd.

Gross is not lying. He is not grossly negligent.

He is simply right. There was no molten steel.

And you don't know what you're talking about.

See, there's no mystery here at all. Just a successful, knowledgeable engineer, who was on the site & knows what he's talking about.

And a bunch of know-nothing ankle biters making silly assertions.

Gross was on camera. He couldn't respond like any engineer would to such pompous stupidity: outright laughter.

And would you like to know the proof that what I've said is true, tm? Gross' phone rings off the hook with people trying to get him to run engineering jobs for them. Gage's career as an architect is over.

Reality. Sucks to be completely, utterly, embarrassingly & publicly wrong.

 

[000063]

A single cavity of 4m radius and 15m depth would hold about 750 cubic meters. I think there were two of then that size. So thats 1500 cubes taken care of.

Well, no, there's all that "rubble" and "debris" to deal with which would be doing its best to occupy those cavities. Also, the fact that you have not proven said "cavities" existed.

 

[000063]

Regardless of what you think of Jones, this data is from the EPA, whom they had to file a FOIA request just to get it.

But it is nice to hear that the lead NIST investigator could lie right to your face, the man who's suppose to be responsible for supplying these facts and evidence, and you wouldn't have a problem with it.

Weren't you using NIST as a resource a short time ago?