Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[DeathDart]

Hundreds if not thousands of people were caught in the dust clouds. Did any of them suffer burns?

Don't Know.

 

[dafydd]

Hundreds if not thousands of people were caught in the dust clouds. Did any of them suffer burns?

It must be the coolest pyroclastic flow on record.

 

[WildCat]

Hi,

This is my first post, and I will certainly try not to break any rules, if I do I apologize in advance, and will change anything that needs to be. I found your question while searching and found it very interesting. I believe I can answer or at least have plausible explanations. I will start with the 2nd of your questions. The most likely scenario for what happened that day, would be something to the affect...that the upper echelon of the Bush administration planned what happened at the pentagon. Having war game scenarios and test hijackings etc...this way it would confuse those who might normally intercept such a hijacking. Hence Norman Mineta's testimony. The Zionist/elites...whatever you want to call them...had something much more sinister in mind...they wanted carte blanche, a blank check to do what they wanted in the middle east ...restrict civil liberties etc... They took advantage of what they knew would be a very confusing time for those who would normally intercept the plane and struck. In regards to how it was "screwed" up...it was really quite the opposite. I believe the 4th plane was headed for building 7...the two towers had to fall to get a clear shot at it. But our fighters were able to scramble and the plane was shot down. I think even those who admittedly support the official story have some doubts as to whether that plane was shot down or not. Obviously Larry Silverstein would be apart of the plot to take the towers down...while using the pentagon in essence as "cover". The first question you have...I'm not sure if this is a suitable answer, but could not the explosives have been planted below the impact zone? Even if they were at the impact zone it would only cause a greater explosion, and perhaps the building to drop earlier..I'm sure exactly when the building dropped really was not that important. As far as proving it could survive a plane impact. I'm not sure I could do that... I would need lots of time and money to conduct experiments, to anything I could come up..I have not found any that someone else did. But as stated previously I'm not sure that it is necessary, thermite cutter charges are the most likely thing to have been used, and it would not matter if some went off early.

I'm sorry, I don't read "wall of text"-type posts.

Try hitting your "enter" key every now and then, hopefully prior to the start of another coherent thought.

 

[WildCat]

From what I've read and seen Thermite charges can be used to cut steel.

Problem for truthers is none of them have been able to get thermite to cut a steel column. Every attempt ended in hilarious FAIL.

 

[WildCat]

Who did it? Most likely a criminal cabal in our country as well as Israel, would my lead suspects. Please keep in mind in no way am I saying Jews, there were those involved who were certainly not Jewish.

Say no more...

 

[sylvan8798]

WTC 1&2 ALONG WITH WTC 7 WERE ALL DESTROYED ACCORDING TO A MASTER PLAN....OPERATION NORTHWOODS WOULD HAVE BEEN PULLED OFF TOO IF IT WEREN'T FOR JFK....GOOGLE IT! For those of you who don't have a clue as to how the buildings were constructed.....both wtc 1&2 had massive central core's...(which Andrew Farmer states were) made up of stairwells and elevators) correct...but he failed to mention the 47 massive central columns in each building....how did the simply fall down.....????how did all the concrete turn to dust...how does human bone turn to dust? how about the massive Pyroclastic clouds......what's sad is there are so many of you who lie......to distort the truth that so many of us see with our own eyes....

Whoa, you're so far behind it's doubtful you'll ever catch up!

 

[WildCat]

I have spent...many...many hours reading watching videos..from all points of view.

And you chose the point of view that you admit has no evidence at all?

Really?

Really?

 

[WildCat]

Your formatting simply makes you look like a ranting nutter.

It does make them much easier to spot.

 

[dafydd]

WTC 1&2 ALONG WITH WTC 7 WERE ALL DESTROYED ACCORDING TO A MASTER PLAN....OPERATION NORTHWOODS WOULD HAVE BEEN PULLED OFF TOO IF IT WEREN'T FOR JFK....GOOGLE IT! For those of you who don't have a clue as to how the buildings were constructed.....both wtc 1&2 had massive central core's...(which Andrew Farmer states were) made up of stairwells and elevators) correct...but he failed to mention the 47 massive central columns in each building....how did the simply fall down.....????how did all the concrete turn to dust...how does human bone turn to dust? how about the massive Pyroclastic clouds......what's sad is there are so many of you who lie......to distort the truth that so many of us see with our own eyes....

In which parallel universe did this take place?

 

[beachnut]

Don't Know.

Do you make this up as you go? Did you mean fictional, or frictional? How does wallboard dust, insulation, and other dust get hot from falling? How hot would it get?
Most the dust was wallboard and insulation; does 911 truth try to do any research before posting delusional lies?
At least you have company, other followers of 911 truth fantasy. seewithyourowneyes is topping the chart with old worn out lies from 911 truth. Where is your evidence to support your claims? Where do you hide your evidence?

 

[tmd2_1]

I apologize for wall texting or however you want to put it. I will try to do better.

Really? Thermite can't be used to cut steel beams? Simply check out Jon Cole's videos he clearly demonstrates that it can. Strangely that what is pouring out during his experiments....looks much like what we see right before the South Tower collapses. Is it Thermite(in the towers that is) I don't know..but it could be.

In regards to what is more likely molten aluminum or thermite...I really can't begin to answer that. I've seen many photos and videos of plane crashes (meaning the debris on the ground) but I have never seen anything like that.) Granted none of them flew into skyscrapers.

My biggest problem with the whole NIST report, is they do exactly what many of you claim truthers do. They looked at one and only one explanation for the collapse..and worked backwards from that. Nothing else was even considered.

I gave plenty of evidence to my thoughts. They are all plausible and logical, is it what happened..I don't know...but it could have happened.

I have never seen a satisfactory answer as to why the South tower fell first. My thought is that it could tip over before the North tower fell, but to fall in almost the exact same manner...it just seems highly unlikely.

I also gave evidence that Jon Gross(lead NIST investigator) either blatantly lied or was grossly negligent. He said that he knows of no witnesses that reported molten metal. When there were many that reported that they saw it. Notice I am not addressing whether or not there was molten metal...but he said he knows of no witnesses that said there was. It is clearly untrue. One could argue that if someone is caught lying about a subject, you would not have to accept anything that person says on that subject.

He being the lead investigator for NIST, as such their greatest representative, one could argue that why should anything in that report be believed. I will not say that here..simply stating that someone could make that argument. Yes I know their have been lies by those in truth movement...but come on you can not compare the two. This is the leader of what is to be the official explanation versus people that... who knows what their motivation might be. Many people do have good intentions, and simply have questions as to the events to that day. That is not excuse for those who have lied..lying and deceiving should never be tolerated.

 

[Athyrio]

Thermite can't be used to cut steel beams? Simply check out Jon Cole's videos he clearly demonstrates that it can.

Were any such cut beams found among the debris?

 

[WildCat]

Really? Thermite can't be used to cut steel beams? Simply check out Jon Cole's videos he clearly demonstrates that it can. Strangely that what is pouring out during his experiments....looks much like what we see right before the South Tower collapses. Is it Thermite(in the towers that is) I don't know..but it could be.

Cole's theory requires that the exterior box columns were filled with thermite, or that thermite was placed on top of hundreds of bolts.

There is no evidence this happened. There's not even a plausible explanation for how it could be done!

In regards to what is more likely molten aluminum or thermite...I really can't begin to answer that. I've seen many photos and videos of plane crashes (meaning the debris on the ground) but I have never seen anything like that.) Granted none of them flew into skyscrapers.

Have you considered it might have been molten lead from a massive UPS array located on that floor?

My biggest problem with the whole NIST report, is they do exactly what many of you claim truthers do. They looked at one and only one explanation for the collapse..and worked backwards from that. Nothing else was even considered.

Not at all! They started with what was observed, and worked from there based on evidence. meanwhile, a lot of you (most?) truthers can't even agree 4 airplanes crashed as described that day.

I gave plenty of evidence to my thoughts. They are all plausible and logical, is it what happened..I don't know...but it could have happened.

Bt you have no evidence any of it happened. Meanwhile, gobs and gobs of evidence for the "official story" as you truthers call it.

I have never seen a satisfactory answer as to why the South tower fell first.

Really? I thought it was obvious before anyone professionally confirmed it. It was hit lower down. So though it had similar damage it had much more weight to support.

See how simple that is? No secret Israeli/NWO conspiracy required. Ever hear of Occam's Razor?

My thought is that it could tip over before the North tower fell, but to fall in almost the exact same manner...it just seems highly unlikely.

It could not tip over.

A funny thing about skyscrapers like the WTC, they need to be plumb and straight. Once you get off plumb the load gets distributed in ways the structure can't support, and it will come apart and fall pretty much straight down.

A skyscraper cannot fall over like a tree.

I also gave evidence that Jon Gross(lead NIST investigator) either blatantly lied or was grossly negligent. He said that he knows of no witnesses that reported molten metal.

You have enough posts now to link to this alleged lie by Gross. Why don;t you do so? Use the most prmary source you can find, try not to use some wingnut truther site unless you can find no better source. "Truther" sites have a nasty habbit of twisting the truth, and often outright lying.

Ironic, isn't it?

When there were many that reported that they saw it. Notice I am not addressing whether or not there was molten metal...but he said he knows of no witnesses that said there was. It is clearly untrue. One could argue that if someone is caught lying about a subject, you would not have to accept anything that person says on that subject.

What do you think "molten metal" would prove? Why do you think it's important?

He being the lead investigator for NIST, as such their greatest representative, one could argue that why should anything in that report be believed. I will not say that here..simply stating that someone could make that argument. Yes I know their have been lies by those in truth movement...but come on you can not compare the two. This is the leader of what is to be the official explanation versus people that... who knows what their motivation might be. Many people do have good intentions, and simply have questions as to the events to that day. That is not excuse for those who have lied..lying and deceiving should never be tolerated.

Then link to this lie so we know exactly what you're claiming here. Your clam, you provide the evidence.

And welcome to the forum.

 

[DeathDart]

Do you make this up as you go? Did you mean fictional, or frictional? How does wallboard dust, insulation, and other dust get hot from falling? How hot would it get?
Most the dust was wallboard and insulation; does 911 truth try to do any research before posting delusional lies?
At least you have company, other followers of 911 truth fantasy. seewithyourowneyes is topping the chart with old worn out lies from 911 truth. Where is your evidence to support your claims? Where do you hide your evidence?

How many times a day do you use the word delusional?

This appears to be a new poster, and some patience is called for.

I was pushing the envelope of the meaning of pyroclastic. Even if he is wrong in his use of pyroclastics, it does have a use as an analogy, and if we looked through the eyes of vulcanologist would we see anything different.

 

[tmd2_1]

Here is the link to the lie. I mean it is right there. This is just youtube...no conspiracy sites. It's all right there. If I posted in correctly i am sorry in advance.

In regards to thermite, I'll say what I have been saying, I believe Cole proves it is possible. If you don't want to believe it, there's not much I can say that will change your mind.

Just a small sample of evidence, would be the shoot down of Flight 93. Scattered debris...these "debris" rolling as is often claimed, does not seem to make sense, given the evidence of a vertical drop, namely how deep the crater is, along with witness testimony.

Also If you watch Cole's videos he has some nice pictures and examples of what he does compared to the WTC. He like I won't say this is what happened simply that it could be.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lihj-Kz9wjY

 

[WildCat]

Here is the link to the lie.

Oh dear FSM! Your big lie is the answer to an ambush question by a truther?

Seriously?

Tell us about this molten metal, and why Goss should have known about it or cared about it. Why do you think this molten metal referred to by the truther in that video is important?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I don't think he's a member here.

Maybe DeathDart assumes Mr. Mueller set up a Google Alert for his name.

 

[tmd2_1]

Well I'm not sure that was an ambush question...that was an open forum..he had to know that truthers would be there.

Also notice...not just molten metal...molten steel...was the question asked. Sometimes I use the terms interchangeably, I apologize if I have done that.

Molten steel is obviously very important Jet fuel can not burn hot enough to melt it. But my point in this is not whether there really was molten steel or not, but that he was asked a question... what do you make of the reports/accounts of molten steel, and he said he was not aware of any such reports. (I am paraphrasing.)

The video shows there clearly were, you saw some by firefighters...who I'm sure have some knowledge on the subject. You may not think this is a big deal...I would differ with that. If he can't even tell the truth with something so small as if there actually being reports...why should we believe anything he or NIST says? Again this is a theoretical argument.

Also I forgot about this video..this is an extended and I think better version...more testimony of molten steel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLIzSCt_cg

 

[Sunstealer]

The video shows there clearly were, you saw some by firefighters...who I'm sure have some knowledge on the subject.

You're rehashing stuff that has been gone over literally dozens of times on this site and been thoroughly debunked. I'm a metallurgist and I can't tell what a liquid metal is just by looking at it. It's impossible without additional visual clues. Firefighters aren't going to know either.

Someone who has worked in a foundry for many years working with different metals and alloys will have a better chance.

Reports of molten steel are ambiguous. People use molten when they don't necessarily mean liquid. They use the word steel because they assume it is.

Even if liquid steel was present it in no way would indicate thermite. It would simply indicate that a fire was hot enough to produce temperatures above the steels melting point.

Throwing in a red herring like "jet fuel can't melt steel" isn't good enough.

There are dozens of threads addressing this. This site is becoming like "whacka mole", debunk one then another one pops up spouting the same old, same old. It's boring.

 

[Travis]

WTC 1&2 ALONG WITH WTC 7 WERE ALL DESTROYED ACCORDING TO A MASTER PLAN....OPERATION NORTHWOODS WOULD HAVE BEEN PULLED OFF TOO IF IT WEREN'T FOR JFK....GOOGLE IT! For those of you who don't have a clue as to how the buildings were constructed.....both wtc 1&2 had massive central core's...(which Andrew Farmer states were) made up of stairwells and elevators) correct...but he failed to mention the 47 massive central columns in each building....how did the simply fall down.....????how did all the concrete turn to dust...how does human bone turn to dust? how about the massive Pyroclastic clouds......what's sad is there are so many of you who lie......to distort the truth that so many of us see with our own eyes....

Operation Northwoods is irrelevant. I don't need Google to know that.

And what do the central core columns have to do with anything?

Prove the concrete all turned to dust.

Prove bones turned to dust.

Prove there was a "pyroclastic cloud."