Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[Jrrarglblarg]

let's not forget this piece of awesome!

I bet he was working late in the office and everybody thinks he surfs pron. Little do they know he's spending his precious evenings filming himself abusing office supplies instead. sneaky bugger.

 

[chrismohr]

The FBI imposed ver 200.000 gag-orders in the US between 2003 and 2006. The figures for 2001-2002 are unavailable but I suspect that they would be way more than would be needed.

You're right Bill, those gag orders were a real low point in the Bush administration. Made me gag reading details about it in the New York Times. Some people have come forth and talked about those gag orders... librarians, for example, who were required to reveal patrons' names and what books they checked out to the government without telling anyone that they were doing this. So far, no one has come out to say "I was under a gag order not to reveal the fact that I helped blow up the Twin Towers." No one has revealed smoking gun insider information on Wikileaks or one of their competitiors. That may yet happen, and if tens of thousands of people ARE under such a gag order, someone will violate the order... which was my point in video #17. Until then we can go with what we have, which is that the Bush administration went way overboard looking for terrorists among peace groups, library patrons etc.

Personally, I have a long enough history of mistrust of government that I am psychologically capable of changing my mind if I get some real proof!

 

[Craig4]

The FBI imposed ver 200.000 gag-orders in the US between 2003 and 2006. The figures for 2001-2002 are unavailable but I suspect that they would be way more than would be needed.

Care to prove that any of those gag orders related to planting explosives in the WTC?

 

[bill smith]

You're right Bill, those gag orders were a real low point in the Bush administration. Made me gag reading details about it in the New York Times. Some people have come forth and talked about those gag orders... librarians, for example, who were required to reveal patrons' names and what books they checked out to the government without telling anyone that they were doing this. So far, no one has come out to say "I was under a gag order not to reveal the fact that I helped blow up the Twin Towers." No one has revealed smoking gun insider information on Wikileaks or one of their competitiors. That may yet happen, and if tens of thousands of people ARE under such a gag order, someone will violate the order... which was my point in video #17. Until then we can go with what we have, which is that the Bush administration went way overboard looking for terrorists among peace groups, library patrons etc.

Personally, I have a long enough history of mistrust of government that I am psychologically capable of changing my mind if I get some real proof!

A provision of the gag order is that you may not tell anybody that you are under a gag porder. Not even your close family. It's also called a National Security order.

 

[Craig4]

A provision of the gag order is that you may not tell anybody that you are under a gag porder. Not even your close family. It's also called a National Security order.

So you have evidence anyone was put under a gag order to prevent them from discussing planting explosives in the WTC?

 

[bill smith]

You're right Bill, those gag orders were a real low point in the Bush administration. Made me gag reading details about it in the New York Times. Some people have come forth and talked about those gag orders... librarians, for example, who were required to reveal patrons' names and what books they checked out to the government without telling anyone that they were doing this. So far, no one has come out to say "I was under a gag order not to reveal the fact that I helped blow up the Twin Towers." No one has revealed smoking gun insider information on Wikileaks or one of their competitiors. That may yet happen, and if tens of thousands of people ARE under such a gag order, someone will violate the order... which was my point in video #17. Until then we can go with what we have, which is that the Bush administration went way overboard looking for terrorists among peace groups, library patrons etc.

Personally, I have a long enough history of mistrust of government that I am psychologically capable of changing my mind if I get some real proof!

Have you seen this from Daniel Ellsberg who was privy during his career to much of the most secret and sensitive information in the US ?

'It is a commonplace that "you can't keep secrets in Washington" or "in a democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you're likely to read it the next day in the New York Times." These truisms are flatly false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out that wouldn't in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of Congress and the press is that secrets that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders.'


'

 

[Craig4]

Have you seen this from Daniel Ellsberg who was privy during his career to much of the most secret and sensitive information in the US ?

'It is a commonplace that "you can't keep secrets in Washington" or "in a democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you're likely to read it the next day in the New York Times." These truisms are flatly false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out that wouldn't in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of Congress and the press is that secrets that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders.'


'

That's nice. Now why don't you run along and find someone who can tell you all about how he wired the WTC with explosives? Then corroborate his evidence. Go on scoot, get going.

 

[BStrong]

Have you seen this from Daniel Ellsberg who was privy during his career to much of the most secret and sensitive information in the US ?

'It is a commonplace that "you can't keep secrets in Washington" or "in a democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you're likely to read it the next day in the New York Times." These truisms are flatly false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out that wouldn't in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of Congress and the press is that secrets that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders.'


'

Any examples of mass murder of U.S. citizens that Ellesberg makes reference to?

IMO most of the individuals that believe that 9/11 was a covert U.S.gov.org op base their beliefs in popular fiction, not reality.

 

[sylvan8798]

PBut the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of Congress and the press is that secrets that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders.'

'

And yet, none of those people had even a little pillow talk with a spouse or sig other who later turned table and used that against them...

 

[chrismohr]

Have you seen this from Daniel Ellsberg who was privy during his career to much of the most secret and sensitive information in the US ?

'It is a commonplace that "you can't keep secrets in Washington" or "in a democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you're likely to read it the next day in the New York Times." These truisms are flatly false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out that wouldn't in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of Congress and the press is that secrets that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders.'


'

Bill, you're onto something here... maybe. I have had lunch one on one with Daniel Ellsberg, I like him and respect him. He has a good general handle on how national security works even after all these years of being completely out of the loop, and I've learned a lot from him. You and he are right to say that very nasty secrets can be kept. I passionately fought against the Reagan administration's covert support of torture in Central America in the 1980s.

My gut feeling is very different about 9/11, however. I'm not into debating you now, just telling you I have a hard time believing that no one would blow the whistle on the massacre of thousands of Americans and the hijacking of four jet planes, all headed towards iconic U.S. structures. Would firefighters sit by and let hundreds of their own brothers be murdered by Federal spooks if they had reason to believe that's what happened? I think they'd put their lives on the line in honor of their fallen comrades.

It's one thing to secretly torture lefties in a foreign country like we helped do in Central America. Murdering thousands of our own citizens and keeping it a secret? I haven't asked Dan Ellsberg what he would think of that, but whatever he would say, I would need proof that it happened and was kept a secret for ten years, not just attempts to stir up suspicion.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Bill, you're onto something here... maybe. I have had lunch one on one with Daniel Ellsberg, I like him and respect him. He has a good general handle on how national security works even after all these years of being completely out of the loop, and I've learned a lot from him. You and he are right to say that very nasty secrets can be kept. I passionately fought against the Reagan administration's covert support of torture in Central America in the 1980s.

My gut feeling is very different about 9/11, however. I'm not into debating you now, just telling you I have a hard time believing that no one would blow the whistle on the massacre of thousands of Americans and the hijacking of four jet planes, all headed towards iconic U.S. structures. Would firefighters sit by and let hundreds of their own brothers be murdered by Federal spooks if they had reason to believe that's what happened? I think they'd put their lives on the line in honor of their fallen comrades.

It's one thing to secretly torture lefties in a foreign country like we helped do in Central America. Murdering thousands of our own citizens and keeping it a secret? I haven't asked Dan Ellsberg what he would think of that, but whatever he would say, I would need proof that it happened and was kept a secret for ten years, not just attempts to stir up suspicion.

It isn't a secret. The MSM is ignoring it. Dime to a dollar we will eventually be told of a much bigger threat and that 9/11 was a sacrifice that had to be made.

 

[Craig4]

It isn't a secret. The MSM is ignoring it. Dime to a dollar we will eventually be told of a much bigger threat and that 9/11 was a sacrifice that had to be made.

Are you going to produce some evidence of either a controlled demolition or a conspiracy by anyone other than Al Qaida members to conduct the attacks on 9/11? How about explaining your math from a few pages ago? You haven't done that yet either.

 

[leftysergeant]

It isn't a secret. The MSM is ignoring it. Dime to a dollar we will eventually be told of a much bigger threat and that 9/11 was a sacrifice that had to be made.

That makes absolutely no sense. What could possibly be a bigger threat?

 

[TSR]

That makes absolutely no sense. What could possibly be a bigger threat?

.
Dur: da Jooos.
.

 

[chrismohr]

YouTube Video: A New Investigation?

Hi all,

After all that science, YouTube rebuttal video #19 to Gage's Blueprint for Truth looks at the question of a new 9/11 investigation. Both sides may be surprised by what I say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LnYfB4OaDM

Raging debates re these Gage rebuttal videos are going on at the Gage Rebuttal thread.

 

[DeathDart]

It isn't a secret. The MSM is ignoring it. Dime to a dollar we will eventually be told of a much bigger threat and that 9/11 was a sacrifice that had to be made.

Sorry Mr. Moore, that one is indefensible. If you are referring to a motive that isn't part of the official story, the evidence (or the lack of it) should become apparent soon.

Though I strongly suspect that there are greater threats out there, I can't picture how 9-11 would have been the best way of preventing any of the new threats from materializing.

One way that the Mafia was able to keep secrets was hiding behind J Edgar's insistence that the Mafia doesn't exist.

A lot of people have been trying to tell the truth. MSM has usually ignored it, and people have suffered because the law is only being applied to maintain a vacuum, free of facts. Facts can be asserted in a court of law, while our opinions cannot. I am leaning toward systematic insertion of morons at key positions with only a handful knowing why. If a moron screws up really bad (but he/she were NOT doing what their boss wanted) they would be fired. They keep getting promoted. Therefor their Boss wanted them to screw up.

What happens to the whistle blowers, they have their security clearance stripped, and then they are fired for not having a security clearance?

So Bush said hide it and get promoted, or tell about it and get fired. So let it be written, so let it be dumb.

Any secrets that 9-11 has, will soon see the light of day. All of us will see it, and the seeing of it, will be good.

 

[sylvan8798]

A lot of people have been trying to tell the truth. MSM has usually ignored it, and people have suffered because the law is only being applied to maintain a vacuum, free of facts. Facts can be asserted in a court of law, while our opinions cannot. I am leaning toward systematic insertion of morons at key positions with only a handful knowing why. If a moron screws up really bad (but he/she were NOT doing what their boss wanted) they would be fired. They keep getting promoted. Therefor their Boss wanted them to screw up.

What happens to the whistle blowers, they have their security clearance stripped, and then they are fired for not having a security clearance?

So Bush said hide it and get promoted, or tell about it and get fired. So let it be written, so let it be dumb.

Any secrets that 9-11 has, will soon see the light of day. All of us will see it, and the seeing of it, will be good.

Your attempts to sound biblical just come off as comical. Aren't you getting impatient as we near ten years since 9/11?

 

[Scott Sommers]

Your attempts to sound biblical just come off as comical. Aren't you getting impatient as we near ten years since 9/11?

No, no, no...you have it all wrong. I'm watching Mercury Rising with Bruce Willis and he's an FBI agent. Even he ends up on the run with no one listening to him because THEY are so powerful. If it's anything like this, you'd have to be Neo to take them on. Maybe DeathDart and his friends are THE ONE brave enough to take THEM on. I'm so looking forward to hearing more about how they're going to do it.

 

[dafydd]

Your attempts to sound biblical just come off as comical. Aren't you getting impatient as we near ten years since 9/11?

Da Troof Micro Movement.

 

[NoahFence]

Twoofers challenge!!

So here it is. I have $1,000 to donate to your favorite twoofer and mine - Richard Gage.

All you have to do is PROVE explosives can survive the impact of the aircraft and subsequent fire. Assumptions are not proof. Secret government documents aren't proof. Proof is proof. What was the device used to house these explosives that can survive?

If no "truther" can prove that explosives can survive the impact and fires, then how do you propose they were used at all? And if you can't prove they were used, then wouldn't this whole "CD" nonsense be for naught? How many people were involved? Who was in charge of what building? WTC 1? WTC 2? The Pentagon?

For an extra $500, why not explain how the entire day's events are tied together? Explain how a government so powerful can screw up one of the crashes! Explain how "they" got the explosives in there! Tie Larry Silverstein to the Pentagon crash.

and.....GO!