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WTC dust

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Bollocks. I'm talking about the wake that does exist behind every craft.
It's a column of air (in the case of an airplane) that travels in the direction of motion of the plane. Some of the air is pushed by the plane (not much, because they are pretty aerodynamic). Some of the air is dragged along with the plane as it flies. Some of it heads in the forward direction due to the vacuum.

All this adds up to a wake, a column of air that follows an airplane.
You know, the thing that didn't slam up against the WTC buildings and didn't disturb the explosions and fumes?

no wake = no plane


The wake wouldn't just stop at the exterior south wall of WTC 2. It would keep on heading in the direction it was going, and it would make itself known as any column of air pushing against smoke/fumes would make itself known.

You'd see it in the shape of the fume clouds from WTC 1 and the explosion coming from WTC 2 at 9:03AM.



She's actually caling the temporary vacuum formed after a plane or boat passes as "dragging air/water behind it" because those substances rush in to fill the vacuum.

It's astonishing that a "PhD research scientist" makes such an egregious and foolish error.
 
You've been wrong before, and you went way out on a limb with your contamination thing and did not respond to my response to it. You just reiterated what you had already said instead of responding to my response.

Her PhD is in some biological science. Her physics education, on the other hand, seems to be sadly lacking.

I'm a layman and even I can tell that much.
 
Have you seen this clip ? At 1:18 you will see a kind of mini tornado. The aborigines call this a willy-willy. It normally occurs above an area of strongly heated ground. How do you account for the ground being hot enough to produce one of those?

They form under other conditions, such as a strong wind being funneled down a canyon.

FAIL.
 
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Go away Bill. I'm not explaining heat that wasn't there.

Dr, Blevins,
Almost all theories relating to the destruction of the WTC depend on there being high heat in the rubble pile. Yours is the only theory that I know of that relies on the low or possibly no heat variant.

So it would be very much in your interest for you to make a strong case for the lack of enormous amounts of heat in the pile for approximately 100 days.

If you can do this then yours is the only case in town...
 
It's clear as a bell to me. What's missing in your understanding?

I seek an image with
1. debris that could be from a plane
2. bouncing backwards in the opposite direction of flight
3. at the site of impact on the south face of WTC
and
4. beginning at the moment of supposed impact.

If what you give me doesn't have all four qualities, it's not what I'm looking for. You won't have shown me debris bouncing back from a plane crashing into a building. You'll be showing me something else, and you won't have proved me wrong.


Alternatively, you could show me the same type of image with noticeable disturbance of the explosion coming from WTC 2 and the fume cloud coming from WTC 1 that would have resulted if a plane had crashed into WTC 2 at 9:03AM.

At least I'm giving you the answers. You not being able to find t
hese images may not change your mind, but at least you'll know what to look for.

You've been shown the vid that contains all four & you keep ignoring it.... well, ignoring it & moving the goal post.

Why not just add "5. With a clear view of all of the hijackers."?

You've been shown to be wrong and are just lying to keep your fantasy going now.
 
Number 1 (response): Seems like you've already decided that a government agency must have been responsible if it was an advanced weapon. I say this doesn't have to be true. It could be a small group. Technology could be stolen or sold to unscrupulous people.

Number 2 (response): All this talk of energy assumes that the physics of the weapon has been worked out fully and that this information is widely available, when it clearly isn't.

Lastly (response): Dr. Wood's work isn't theoretical. You won't find more evidence in one place than in her book "Where Did the Towers Go?" except on her website http://drjudywood.com It's not theory to look at the evidence, which is what she does. She doesn't propose a particular weapon. She describes the physics that was used.

Addendum: Your concern for me does not appear to be genuine.


Let's assume for the moment that there is some sort of weapon out there that is capable of causing destruction on the level of the WTC towers (ignoring the whole "turned to dust" thing, because that's just ludicrous in the extreme), as Judy Wood has posited. If that is the case, I have a few issues that I'd like to point out.

Number one: Right now, there is no indication (other than the putative cause of the collapse of the towers) that any such weapon has ever been used. Speaking from a tactical perspective, the notion that some entity (governmental or private) would possess such a weapon and would only use it once is sheer stupidity. You have a weapon capable of destroying 110 story buildings practically down to the ground; why only use it once? Assuming it was ours; (and taking into account the idea that we would have had to conceal the fact that we used it ourselves originally, possibly by seeding a story that we had been developing a similar weapon in secret and were now unveiling it in response to the attacks) we could have just used it on Saddam's palace, or any location we were sure a member of the Taliban or Al Qaeda was holed up and leveled the building. We'd very quickly intimidate our enemies into surrendering, I can tell you that. Heck, if we were unscrupulous enough, we'd parlay it into becoming rulers of the entire world (which the CTers would have us believe is the ultimate goal of the shadowy elite anyway) simply by threatening to use it on anyone who opposed us.

If it belonged to our enemies, they wouldn't stop at using it once either. They'd quickly use it on other buildings and key targets (like oh, say, our military bases and armaments, which are pretty easy to locate using something as simple as Google Earth), and get US to surrender to THEM, and we would now be living under some other country's governance. There's a reason they say "absolute power corrupts absolutely", because I can just about guarantee you that if any country in the developed world suddenly got their hands on such technology, we'd quickly become a one world government. Governments are, by their very nature, inclined to some unscrupulousness, and while they'd try to couch it at first as "protecting the homeland and the people", eventually the blinders would come off. And if it were owned by private enterprise, you'd have that issue even more; private enterprises are even more unscrupulous, and instead of one country ruling the world, we'd suddenly have one company ruling the world.

Number two: So, tactically it's a wash; what about other considerations? For instance; what powers this weapon? Is it a renewable resource? Is it easily replicated? Where is it located? Only reasonable place is in space, but the likelihood of our enemies (or us, if it belongs to our enemies) discovering which platform is the culprit before it can be positioned to take out other targets is pretty high, considering that most of the developed nations in the world have the capability to extrapolate locations using simple navigation techniques; they can then use their own military capabilities to attack it, since it's pretty difficult to protect something if it's in space. If it's located in a fixed location on land, how is it possible to target other areas? You don't build a weapon like that for the sole purpose of taking out one target; you build it to take out multiple targets (see the tactics discussion above). If it's on a ship, how have we/other countries not spotted it by now, and again, why hasn't it been used to take out other targets? And back to the power considerations; has anyone even tried to figure out the energy usage on such a weapon? If a weapon is so prohibitively costly to use, energy-wise, what sane individual is going to build it? Again, the whole purpose of building such a weapon is to USE the damned thing; not just once, but multiple times. The fact that this is the only instance where it could even be posited that such a weapon was used illustrates my point.

And lastly, lets not forget that all of Judy Wood's work was theoretical at best back in 2001; it's now 2011, a full TEN YEARS after 9/11 (which is an eon in terms of technology improvements), and we have yet to see this weapon or anything remotely similar even proposed by SANE scientists. The closest we've come, so far as I'm aware, is the development of EMP weaponry, which doesn't exactly cause buildings to collapse. Laser technology is coming along, but again; doesn't cause buildings to collapse.

So, what I would like to know is; how on God's green earth can ANYONE think this idea is even remotely possible when all the evidence (that was collected TEN YEARS AGO, not TWO YEARS AGO) does not show anything like it happening? And DOES show that four planes were hijacked (evidence to support this includes airplane pieces discovered at all four locations, as well as DNA evidence of the passengers, all the credit card records showing tickets bought, video evidence of the hijackers, and the eyewitness testimony of several thousand people who were physically present at the time at the various locations) and flown into three buildings, while the fourth crashed into a field? The only conclusion I can reach is that the people who honestly believe this are people prone to delusions and are extremely suggestible, and are being taken advantage of by unscrupulous people who have no qualms about making a quick buck off of them. This is what logic and deduction tells me; no need for a PhD even. I find it sad to watch someone who, at least at one point in her life, was capable of the intelligence needed to get such an advanced degree apparently spiral downward further into delusions completely unsupported by current science, and I am washing my hands of the entire issue. I will not post in this thread again; I have no wish to further exacerbate someone's apparent mental illness by encouraging discussion of utterly ludicrous theories, and I strongly suggest that everyone else currently posting in this thread do the same. We are not helping Dusty by catering to her need for attention; the sort of help she needs, most of us are incapable of supplying, and I for one will not pretend to think I can convince her that her ideas are insane. Dusty, the last thing I will say to you is this: I strongly suggest you seek professional help. You are clearly intelligent (the marijuana use and crazy theories aside), and I can find nothing but pity in my heart for your apparent downward spiral. I truly hope you can stop yourself before you spiral out of control. Take care.
 
Holding yourself back shows some maturity. Refusing to read any more of my posts might show even higher levels of self control, if it's a temptation to you to do bad things.

I am done with this kook too. We've spent hundreds of pages giving this delusional woman the attention she obviously craves. She is offensive, ignorant and clearly has a few loose wires. My patience with Dusty has run out, I don't want to get myself banned for losing my temper and lashing out with an angry rant at her.
 
Go away Bill. I'm not explaining heat that wasn't there.

Well I can keep asking the questions just as long as you decline to answer them. As a scientist you cannot really make statements like the collapses were not hot events and then refuse to explain evidence that would indicate the opposite when it's put under your nose. Not if you want to be taken seriously at least.

You know this perfectly well.
 
Number 1 (response): Seems like you've already decided that a government agency must have been responsible if it was an advanced weapon. I say this doesn't have to be true. It could be a small group. Technology could be stolen or sold to unscrupulous people.

Number 2 (response): All this talk of energy assumes that the physics of the weapon has been worked out fully and that this information is widely available, when it clearly isn't.

Lastly (response): Dr. Wood's work isn't theoretical. You won't find more evidence in one place than in her book "Where Did the Towers Go?" except on her website http://drjudywood.com It's not theory to look at the evidence, which is what she does. She doesn't propose a particular weapon. She describes the physics that was used.

Addendum: Your concern for me does not appear to be genuine.


Why do you never actually deal with any specific criticisms of your energy weapon theory? For example you ignored all of Sabrina's points like you always do, you just say the evidence exists, somewhere...

I think if you honestly tried to answer Sabrina's questions you'd be forced to accept that your theory is absurd and illogical.
 
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Questions:
Are you telling me that if the Queen Mary bumped up against a pier, that water wouldn't splash against the pier?

"Meaningfully" does have a specific meaning in this case, and I've used it on purpose.

If you search and read all the peer reviewed journal articles on the WTC dust, you will find, as I did, that NONE of them actually describe a proper mechanism for why this dust came into existence. What all these papers do is say, "The offical story says blah blah....and this is what the dust is made of."

They don't explain the presence of iron chips. IRON CHIPS, people! How does iron get "chipped" even in a big office fire that let's say occurred after a plane crash. Iron chips, even in small amounts, needs to be explained.

The lack of intact people inside the building must be explained. They only found fragments of people. They didn't find even one single toilet or sink. Also, the paper didn't burn. You have to explain this. Also, the "fire" was resistant to months of the very best fire fighting efforts and multiple episodes of heavy rain. None of the peer reviewed journal articles you will find gives a meaningful explanation of all this.

If this work had been done by other people, I wouldn't be doing it myself. 9/11 research is tedious and people don't much like it. Legalizing pot was more fun. I'd rather be doing that, don't forget. I got caught up in this thing by accident. I didn't start out as a conspiracy researcher and after 9/11 say, "Aha! Now I've got a good one!" No. I was and still am a scientist. I was busy doing other things and hoping someone would come up with a legitimate explanation for why those buildings were destroyed in the way that they were.

But an aluminum skiff can bump up to the dock and the Queen Mary can't. They're both made of metal, so there should be no difference, right? /Planet dust mode



Bare assertion, zero math to support it. Fail



You've left out the 220 stories of burning debris in the WTC collapse piles. Oops! Fail..


Only if the word 'meaningfully' has been altered to mean 'whatever fits WTC Dust delusions'. Then, no, there is no book or article which 'meaningfully' describes the event.




Wrong, both an illogical and dishonest statement. Well, a fraudulent statement, really (to add to all the other fraudulent statements you have made).
There are plenty of people who could explain it to you, that's not the problem. The problem is you're too delusional and warped to accept any rational, evidence-based explanation.

There is nothing rational about your inquiry, nor anything honest about it. Because your central 'claims' are blatantly fraudulent.
 
Listen carefully: My dust samples were discovered on a ledge several dozen feet above the ground. They were never on the ground.

Before 9/11, for thirty years, this material was located a couple blocks away, probably in WTC 2. Then, on 9/11, the building became dust, and the dust settled where I found it 8 years later.

Wrong. You have no evidence that any foam went up anywhere. Zero evidence in fact.

The only foam you found was deposited on the ground, meaning it went DOWN.

You are completely illogical. And you don't care, since it's all a joke to you apparently. However, it is you who are the joke.
 
There are three PhD level scientists who are working on the low heat process.
Myself, Dr. Wood, and Dr. Henry-Couannier.

In the future, there will be more.

You're not a competent scientist in relation to this work. That's obvious to everyone but yourself.
 
I've had this conversation before, see, and people try to get sneaky, so I added what was needed.

Plane debris would bounce back at the site of impact and at the moment of impact.

Other people have shown me debris flying FORWARD, in the direction of the supposed plane flight, but this isn't "bounceback".

Other people have show me images of the explosion that happened after the object fully penetrated the building, but that isn't AT THE MOMENT OF IMPACT.

Other people have even shown me images of stuff flying out of the north face of WTC 2, but that is hardly the site of impact. The south face of WTC 2 was where you claim a plane crashed.

I've had this argument before, and challenged many others to provide this evidence. They have failed, but you, YOU people are the readers of the exalted JREF forum. If any non-scientists can debunk me properly with specific evidence, then it will be readers of this forum. I'm giving some tiny extra credit to some scientist out there who might be able to debunk me, by the way. Nobody has stepped up to the plate, yet, but it could be a layperson, especially since so many laypeople have an interest in 9/11.

Directly contradicted by your apparently inability to process information correctly if it has anything to do with 9/11. You're an expert at dissembling, for sure.



Done. Oh, but of course you're dishonest, so you're going to excuse yourself from allowing any real evidence. Just a hunch. Oh look! You've done it in the next paragraph. Could you be any more phony and insincere? I doubt it...:(




And the dodge (required to maintain the delusion)



Wait a sec.... she admits she's not an expert on planes, so then why is she pretending to be an expert later, just here?

Oh, I know this one!! She's dishonest and duplicitous, that's why! That was easy...:D
 
So either I'm right (and very ahead of the curve), or I'm wrong, and a bad scientist.

Delusional, crazy, in need of meds, none of that is going to work for you as a debunking because I'm not one of those folks. Pitiable people, the mentally ill.

You have to be believeable to be a con artist. Who has Dusty convinced, Bill Smith? :p
 
...the main of what I'm telling you is entirely true....


:bs:

Every snake oil salesmen, con artist, and pathological liar says that...

In my experience I've noticed that whenever people have to make statements like "i'm telling the truth", it's usually because they are totally lying and trying to sell you some BS.
 
If that's true about you, then I'm wondering why you suggested those two items as an indication that an answer is correct. Why did you suggest these things?

An answer to a scientific question is correct when it keeps being correct no matter how many different types of questions you can throw at it.

An incorrect answer perhaps looks correct if you ask a certain number of questions, but it will be shown false if asked other questions.

Example: Nukes destroyed the WTC. This can be proved incorrect because of the unburnt paper, but the total and complete destruction of the building is a tiny bit like what you'd see in a nuke blast. Nuke blasts do make dust clouds, but they travel MUCH MUCH faster than this one did. Nukes out.

What hasn't been elimated, yet? A beam weapon. It might be eliminated in the future, but it explains everything pretty darn well in my studied estimation.



Is it like a "tingling sensation" or a "overwhelming sense of euphoria"?


You'll have to excuse me if I sound skeptical, I've never been a fan of intuition over expertise.

:rolleyes:
 
You don't even have a theory. You have managed to convince nobody except for maybe bill smith. But he'll believe anything (or at least pretend to). There is no need to debunk anything.

Your ideas about some of the craziest things I have ever heard in my life. And that they only thing that you have to support them is some dust you found eight years after the fact is pathetic. Even more so, that you haven't even managed to do an actual analysis of it.
 
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